We have recently purchased a Bailey Unicorn Cadiz and loaded it pretty much the same as our old Lunar Clubman. Last week while pitching up I needed to raise the jockey wheel tube. Only then did I realise how much weight the thing has at the hitch. Even with my wife standing in the back of the van it must have had 70kilos. I've just ordered a weight guage but in the meantime, gas bottle is in the car, front lockers are all empty and even the wheel and hitch locks are now stored aft of the axle. Even with a gas locker just in front of the axle this van must be way out of balance.
Nose weight of Cadiz
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It's a matter of what and how you load your items into a caravan that determines what nose load is created. I have towed many caravans and where the nose load was greater than required, it necessitates moving the items you have in the caravan to adjust the nose load to your chosen value. In some case I have had to add ballast to a caravan to address the nose load issue.
I am very concerned by one point in your posting, your reference to the gas bottle in the car. That is a definite no no for safety reasons. The gas bottle should be secured in the caravans gas bottle cradle, upright with good ventilation at the top and bottom.
I am very concerned by one point in your posting, your reference to the gas bottle in the car. That is a definite no no for safety reasons. The gas bottle should be secured in the caravans gas bottle cradle, upright with good ventilation at the top and bottom.
Doesn't the Cadiz have its gas bottle just in front of the axle and not in the front locker? A higher nose weight is better for a comfortable tow so about 70-80 kg could be about correct. Manufacturers recommend that nose weight is about 5-7% of the MTPLM. The Cadiz has a MTPLM of about 1490kg.
We carry our wheel and hitch locks in the car, if we take our spare gas bottle that goes in the car too, secured upright to the tie downs in the boot. We only ever have one bottle in the locker.
Not sure where the water heater is on a Cadiz but that would be best emptied if in the front.
A weight gauge is pretty essential. Once you have loaded it once and got everything where the weight is correct you don't really need to check each and every time. Just place everything in the same location.
Untill then you can check using some bathroom scales and a stout piece of wood in the hitch at a length that keeps the 'van level. That will be better than estimating it.
I know there is some scepticism wrt weight gauges. I had a Milenco “calibrated” and on firts use I weighed noseweight with our bathroom scales which have shown themselves remarkably accurate for airline check in, but not my weight. After using the scales I then reweighed the nose load using the Milenco weight gauge calibrated against the bathroom scales. After that relied on the Milenco which I carried on trips away.
I had spreadsheets of weighed items and location in caravan or car, and the spreadsheets would cover short weekend winter breaks through to a long summer break abroad. They also formed a useful check off list too.
When you take it to a Calor dealer to swap it?
I wouldn't be able to get our outfit anywhere close to our Calor dealer.
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Rather than get into all the flim-flam you have had, let me say when we bought our Unicorn Cabrera and investigated, our nose weight went off the scale on a Milenco gauge, and we finished up buying a Reich scale. It was meant to be 100kg for the van and the car. We had to move a huge load of stuff to under the island bed at the rear, including even the jack and that sort of stuff. All stuff that we carry on the van is put into plastic boxes and stored under the bed.
For the info of others here, Bailey DO NOT have the traditional front locker. The gas locker is mounted around the axle.
We are picking up our new Cabrera next week, and I will be weighing it on the Reich before we load up
TBH I think everyone understood the gas locker is not in the traditional place on a Bailey.
And also moving the heavy stuff to the rear is not a good idea from a stability perspective. You may solve your nose weight issue but you potentially will create another issue re lateral stability.
The Bailey under discussion isn’t the only caravan that’s nose heavy when unloaded. My last a Swift Sprite was nose heavy as most of its maker installed heavy items were in front of the axle, plus a significant difference across the caravan. I had to do precisely what Guzzilazz had to do and rear load some stuff. Two holdalls, my toolbag, sometimes a 10 kg water container, dog food etc and always a couple of litres in cassette and flush. Very little went forward of the axle although it did have a Calorlite in the front locker. The cars limit was 80kg and I aimed for 75kg on the weight gauge. It towed very well.
It's weird isn't it?
I can tell if I've forgotten to empty the flush tank on our loo by how the caravan behaves.
I can tell if I've forgotten to empty the flush tank on our loo by how the caravan behaves.
If your caravan is that sensitive I would think that you must be towing very close to the limit weight distributionwise or there is something inherently wrong with its basic design. Maybe the loads left to right are significantly different.
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As I recently explained in another thread, I was lucky because I could refill our own cylinders at our storage location. But otherwise it was transport using a trailer, or an open backed pick up truck.
The correct measurement of the nose load should be carried out the the hitch at exactly the same vertical height above the ground as when the caravan is hitched to the tow vehicle and both are loaded and ready to roll. This is because the height of the hitch affects the the the amount of load that is applied to the tow ball. Very few outfits actually tow with the caravan level, most seem to be slightly nose down though there is nothing wrong with some outfits being slightly nose up.
This also means that using a compressed spring nose load gauge also cannot guarantee a true measurement of nose load, UK less by coincidence it happens to settle at the same loaded hitch height as you outfit.
As others have commented, if the difference the weight of a full vs empty toilet tank causes a step change in the stability of an outfit, then it strongly points to the outfit being incredibly marginal even when the tank is empty. I would suggest reviewing what and where you are locating your items. Or reducing your towing speed to lower the kinetic energy in the system that drives instabilities.
Like I said, I'm not sure what the real reason is, but your experience astounds me and if I were in the same position as you I would try to get to the bottom of the problem as it would suggest that small changes of weight distribution elsewhere in the caravan would have a similar effect.
As our break neared its end I would gradually reduce the contents of the flush tank. If it was a short weekend break it would not be completely filled on arrival. Always a couple of litres in flush for return trip. Cassette always emptied prior to departure then filled with 2 litres for journey home.
But if you “pseudo calibrate” your spring loaded noseweight gauge against the bathroom scales and piece of wood the effect of spring compression is negated providing the conditions under which you do this are consistent.
I don’t know if over all the years that I have been lucky but I’ve never got too hung up on the accuracy versus height debate and the various outfits have never given me anything approaching a bottom clenching moment. But I’ve always taken care to load the caravan carefully. Unlike some who stop for a break and sit down for high tea I’ve always had to clamber over stuff even to access the toilet. Even Border Force gave up in Dunkerque and peered under the bed via the external side locker access.
We always load the caravan in two configurations. With stuff in the same place depending on whether it's a long break or a short break and what is coming with us.
So nothing else of significant weight (like a tank of water) ever gets moved to another location in the 'van.
The only thing that has made a noticeable difference (all be it minor) is when the flush tank has been left full. You indeed may be 'astounded', but given the location and the weight (combined with the general advice not to tow with a full flush tank anyway) I'm not.
The other side issue was that I noticed the flush switch plays up after I do it, now that could be a complete co-incidence but I understand there is a theoretical possibility of water contamination of the PCB with the water splashing about in the tank. That could be right that could be wrong I can't say for certain, but again that is just a fact. It happened.
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There’s a reason in the high nose load ex factory especially with rear fixed beds. Look at all that storage space 😋. Load it to the gunnels ! Surely as I think the Prof said a while back it’s all a question of moments around a fulcrum, sensible low level loading and thus reducing the nose load to the correct level for your outfit. The Cadiz has been designed to carry two 6 kgs cylinders just by the axle. Note the battery box is on the other side of the axle.
I don’t see there is a problem🤔
Nose load gauge , I have found the Reich to be excellent always being with 1 kg of the bathroom scales.
I too found JRT’s comments unusual . However let’s assume he has everything loaded correctly then perhaps he’s more fine tuned than the rest of us. 😉
I don’t see there is a problem🤔
Nose load gauge , I have found the Reich to be excellent always being with 1 kg of the bathroom scales.
I too found JRT’s comments unusual . However let’s assume he has everything loaded correctly then perhaps he’s more fine tuned than the rest of us. 😉
Perhaps - after (exactly this month) 40 years towing several different caravans with several different cars and thousands of towing miles miles under my belt it is certainly possible......
(than some on here at least).
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JRT,Perhaps - after (exactly this month) 40 years towing several different caravans with several different cars and thousands of towing miles miles under my belt it is certainly possible......
Is your toilet at the very rear?
After 40 years you too will remember the old 12 and 14 footers , short hitches , twitchy all over and then we found the Scott Stabiliser. 😋
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