we have a jaguar xe, can tow 1500 kg. Our Lunar clubman ck fully loaded is 1265 kg. Towbar is rated upto 145 kg but jaguar says 75kg nose weight. Can't get below 85 kg without loading rear of van . How do we adjust weight? Front locker empty.
Nose weight.
- Thread starter clackerbox
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I had a nose heavy caravan and had no option but to move some load towards the rear. Getting to 75kg from 85kg isn’t that difficult. Move something behind the axle. Ensure front hot water tank empty, I would add 2 litres to the cassette and 2 litres to the flush. Plus sometimes putting my 9 kg tool bag at the back.
It is a horrible predicament, what do you have under the front bunks? Is your water heater empty?
Do you have bench seats in the front of the caravan? Can you move the cushions to the back of the caravan, maybe stowed in the shower?
We have done the same, also our cooker is just behind the axle, so the bottom of that we put heavy pots and pans, every little bit helps.
If you can only get your nose load below your 75kg limit by rear loading in the caravan, then first thing to do is to review and if possible remove any items ahead of the caravans axle, and relocate them behind the axle, or to add some additional ballast behind the axle.
Whilst rear loading is generally not advisable, some times it is necessary. The major concern is the greater tendency towards instability, it doesn't start suddenly, the initial sensations at the onset of instability should be detectable by a competent driver, with enough time to take suitable action.
Speed is always the most significant factor associated with instability, so the first intervention should always be to reduce speed gently, and to proceed at a lower speed until its safe to stop, and to address the problem.
Whilst rear loading is generally not advisable, some times it is necessary. The major concern is the greater tendency towards instability, it doesn't start suddenly, the initial sensations at the onset of instability should be detectable by a competent driver, with enough time to take suitable action.
Speed is always the most significant factor associated with instability, so the first intervention should always be to reduce speed gently, and to proceed at a lower speed until its safe to stop, and to address the problem.
I disagree Prof, speed is NOT always the significant factor, bad balancing of the trailer is the problem.
Speed and balance are both important.
Speed and balance are both important.
I am a bit puzzled why a tow bar rated at 145kg was fitted to the vehicle as that also affects the nose weight of the vehicle as it will probably be heavier than one rated at 75kg?
Where do you carry the gas bottle if the front locker is empty? We were towing one behind a 2011 Ford Mondeo Estate and I don't recall issues getting the nose weight down, but it may have had a higher nose weight allowance.
Where do you carry the gas bottle if the front locker is empty? We were towing one behind a 2011 Ford Mondeo Estate and I don't recall issues getting the nose weight down, but it may have had a higher nose weight allowance.
When getting our previous Cabrera right the item that we moved that put the world to rights was the jack and wheel nut spanner from front offside locker to the very rear - I reckon it was effectively a -5 at the front and a +5 at the back...
I agree there are many factors that influence the stability of an outfit, but once moving the only realistic control the driver has is speed.
The reason why speed is in my view the most important factor, is the fact that instability is generated by the amount of disruptive energy the caravan can deploy into the mechanics of the instability, and that energy is derived from the power needed to move the caravan, i.e the speed of the outfit.
School boy physics should tell you the energy needed to increase the speed of a mass is the square of the speed difference, thus you need to deploy 4 times the energy to double the speed. That means you are disproportionately increasing the energy supply to the forces that cause instability.
This square law between speed and the threshold of instability is why reducing speed is the best way of bringing an unstable outfit back into control.
I'd like to see any driver being able to adjust the balance of a moving trailer whilst attempting to recover from the signs of instability.
Whilst I have no wish to reopen the nose load can of worms there is sense of Deja vu here.
I recall a while back Prof you very kindly explained in school boy terms the elementary physics , Law of Moments. Ie Moment =Force X perpendicular distance from the pivot d. M = FD.😇
That of course confirmed there is nothing wrong loading at the rear. As long as the centre of gravity aspect is considered and the nose load correct then like the child’s see saw there shouldn’t be a stability issue . Speed is one of the factors which we all respect , well most do. Correctly loaded , paying heed to road and weather conditions, the legal maximum permitted speed should not be an issue .
That is an assumption you should not make.
There is no Construction and use regulation that requires any vehicle to be able to achieve the legal limit in force on any stretch of road. The only way an ordinary driver can establish the level of control they have over any vehicle or more especially an trailer outfit is to try it by progressively increasing their speed towards the limit, and monitoring the feel of the vehicle for signs of early loss of control.
I read Dusty's post totally differently as being within the speed limit safely. There was no mentioning of having to achieve the speed limit?
There is a video on YouTube showing the danger of loading the rear.
My last caravan was nose heavy when unloaded as most of the makers heavy parts were forward of the axle. Spare wheel, water heater tank, sink unit and kitchen units, fridge and the cooker was partly over the axle. That lot were all on one side. On the other side the Truma room heater was over the axle. Plus the battery supplied by me was on the offside again well forward of the axle. The Calorlite propane bottle was in the locker plus a few other bits.
So I had no option but to carry stuff behind the axle in order to get noseweight down. The rear bed lockers and overhead locker plus wardrobe were behind the axle as was the toilet and shower. So a fair chunk of the payload was behind the axle stowed low down with heaviest stuff nearest the axle. Even then I would sometimes carry a tool bag at the back to fine tune noseweight and there was always 2 litres in the cassette and flush needed for the journey.
Did I ever feel that the caravan had indications of instability ? No I did not. Why when I seemed to go against the theory that weight at the rear is a No No? Probably because there’s an irrational believe that rear loading should be avoided at all costs. Same as putting fluid in the cassette gives can cause instability because of the free surface effect. Absolute tosh unless the caravan is very marginal.
My first two vans had kitchens and shower/ toilet at the back and even unloaded they behaved themselves.
The OP is only looking for a 10 kg reduction to get down to 75kg. Should not be that difficult.
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There are several video's that use models to illustrate the point. And the principle is correct, unfortunately the models jump from one extreme to the other and don't actually show a true representation of the mass distribution of a real caravan, which in reality would sit between the extremes demonstrated.
The principle is important and caravanners should be shocked to take it into consideration, but the reality is unlikely to be as black and white or as momentous as the models suggest.
The van weights 1300kg if it was evenly balanced 650kg would be behind axle, with good 100kg of that at tail. Moving 10-20kg arounds isn't going to make a difference as long as there is reasonable nose weight. More weight nose doesn't make it more stable and can overload cars rear suspension.
You only need enough nose load to keep the caravan from becoming unstable as speed increases. Out of this fact there many who would say that more is better, but once you have enough, adding any extra serves no purpose. Taken to an extreme continuing to add more nose load could indeed begin to overload the tow vehicle rear suspension and create excess wear on components.
It is also necessary to be aware of what drivers have in their boots (trunk) as the nose load will affect the maximum load in the rear storage.
Another important factor is the accuracy of however the weight is being measured. Some of the cheap & cheerful nose weight gauges are hardly NAMAS calibrated. I threw ours away when I realised it was badly rusted internally and was out by just under 10kgs
The first caravan I towed was hire one which had excessive nose weights thanks to the rocks owner hide in nose. They thought it would be more stable. Didn't help stability and every small bump would have it pitching (see sawing). I ended up slowing right down for most bridges because of this.
Current caravan is same length and probably heavier. Thanks correctly balanced load is lot nicer to tow and isn't upset by road inperfections.
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