nose wieght problem!

[kelvin3]

1997 Abbey Caprice 2birth end bathroom

2002 Vauxhall Vectra Saloon 1.8, 75kg limit

I have a mover on, 110Ah battery and alko hitch.

With the wheel put in the bathroom and nothing else except for the 7kg bottle of gas in the looker and nothing in the van forward of the axel I have a nose weight of 85kg and that is with the toilet full of water (which I am unsure if this is a good thing)

Any suggestions

Kel

 

[xtrailman]

Have you got the gas light type gas cylinder?

I also carry two water carriers and waste containers in the end bathroom, plus the two wardrobes are full of cloths, all at the rear of the caravan.

 

[kelvin3]

Ray I am unsure what you mean by gas light type. Its blue calor 7kg?

Do you fill your water containers?

 

[xtrailman]

kelvin

They are two light weight gas containers available, so you save on the weight, i carry one 6kg propane cylinder.

I NEVER tow with water in any tank, toilet, or water carrier.

Unless a fixed tank is designed for that use, and is fitted with baffles.

 

[Sproket]

Water weighs aprox 1kg per ltr & the weight soon adds up.

The only water you should need to carry ought to be in the car, maybe 2 x two 2ltr bottles in case you want a drink on route ?

 

[Martin24]

water in toilet or anywhere else in the van will increase weight considerably and potentially cause instability as the weight of it sloshes around

 

[ProfJohnL]

Water weighs aprox 1kg per ltr & the weight soon adds up.

The only water you should need to carry ought to be in the car, maybe 2 x two 2ltr bottles in case you want a drink on route ?

Water weighs exactly 1Kg per Litre!

 

[Philspadders]

if you have to add weight then make it usefull.

A case of wine,or a few packs of beer would be preferable.

 

[xtrailman]

Thats right we have 10 bottles of wine in the caravan at present, two in the fridge, 8 forward of the axle under the bunks, secured of cause.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Kelvin,

This is not an uncommon occurrence, and it can be managed. It is not rocket science but you need to move weight from afore the axle to aft.

The gas bottle locker should be just that, so no EHU cable or wedges, mallets etc.

Don't for get that for every 1Kg you move from the front to the rear it makes 2Kg difference at the hitch, so that means you only need to move the 5Kg to get you nose weight down to 75 for the car.

Its not much, Reposition your awning bag a bit further back, and even if you needed to part fill a water container to make the final difference, if an additional 20Kg of water is enough to destabilise your caravan then its too close to instability even without the weight of the extra water.

I have never yet come across a caravan that I cant safely trim to give the correct nose load.

 

[xtrailman]

Thats right we have 10 bottles of wine in the caravan at present, two in the fridge, 8 forward of the axle under the bunks, secured of cause.

course.

 

[xtrailman]

Its poor advise to suggest using water as ballast, any water container would have to be securely secured, and even then with out baffles fitted the water will be constantly on the move in a part full container.

 

[kelvin3]

Thanks peeps

My guts told me that water was a no-no because of the splashing and wieght distribution effect. Although a few bottles of vino tinto makes sense, but what about the journey back?

My thoughts were that the van was not designed for the battery therefore extra weight and in theory the s/wheel should be slung under the back? And by me fitting the mover it as effected it over the limit!

I was thinking of reversing the mover so it at the back of the axel. I know its only just infront of the axel but 34Kg, at a guess put 10kg at the nose!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again Kelvin,

Yes by all means move the mover to the rear of the wheels, it will make a small difference, but as it is already so close to the axle, don't expect it to make a massive difference at the nose.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Sloshing water in tanks,

This has been mentioned several times, and it could be a problem if the container is large, such as an under floor full width tank. But water in a loo, or an aquarol, will slosh around, but if that is enough to destabilise a caravan, then the caravan is already too close to an unstable condition and will probably demonstrated it without the liquid.

It is of course necessary to ensure any container with fluid in it is properly secured before towing.

 

[kelvin3]

Looking back nearly 40 years, I wish I'd listened more in Physics!!!

If you look at what time I posted this, DANGER I have been thinking?

If a 34kg wieght is placed 1' in front a pivot (axel) then to counter act (balance) then a 4.25kg must be placed 8' to the back of the pivot. If then the front lever is longer than the 8' at the back and the 4.25kg is not added then the resulting force downwards is increased proportionally to the increased difference in length. I think! this would equate to about a third extra in my case making an increase of 5.66kg.

Couple this with the spare being put in the front locker, and the much heavier battery, I can see were the problems are.

The lengths I have used are guesstimates but if the distance back from the axel is only 6' (units etc)then the weight needed wuld be 5.66kg and without the weight an increase at the nose by 7.54kg

I may also have this A about T

Kel

 

[Philspadders]

aha force x distance. great stuff.

"Don't for get that for every 1Kg you move from the front to the rear it makes 2Kg difference at the hitch, so that means you only need to move the 5Kg to get you nose weight down to 75 for the car."- posted by Prof.

Unless you know how far the items are to be moved the statement above is incorrect.Measurements about the pivot point must be taken then turning moments can be calculated.

 

[BillD.]

As far as the motor mover is concerned it will only make a couple of kg or so difference at the hitch depending on van dimensions, still significant I accept when you are struggling for every kilo as I did with my new van (my noseweight gauge sunk right down even with the van as 'ex-works'. You can calculate by measuring distance from axle to centre of gravity of mover (you will have to have an educated guess at this) and centre of hitch. eg. say 34kg mover and C of G 150mm, and to hitch say 3000mm. = 34 x 150/3000 = 1.7kg. This applies of course to a load forward of the axle centre.

Bill D.

 

[kennygee]

Just a thought. Are you sure your nose weight scales are working correctly and showing the correct weight. Ken

 

[Sproket]

I have one of these spare wheel carrier's my spare is 195/70/15 & weighs over 20kg.....

This will sort out your problem very easily by putting the spare wheel underneath the van & rear of the wheels, it is also easier to fit than moving your mover

 

[Lutz]

Some of the current Adria caravans with on board water tanks have two, one at the front and one at the rear, specifically for ballasting noseweight. So much for water splashing around in the tanks.

 

[kelvin3]

using Bill D's calculation, and amending mine slightly (More accurate measurements)both ways agree that the increase on the nose is in the region of 3.7kg. Taking the shorter back and allowing for units, 5.18kg should be added at the back to counter act.

If I reversed the mover this would decrease the nose wieght to 77.6kg

from looking at the original manual the spare should be slung under the back anyway and not in the locker (alko chassis)

So! the simple solution is to reverse the mover - thats *&^%$ my nice clean wiring up, job! that then leaves room for a few bottles of vino.

Please don't take offence at this statement but why hasn't this type of calculations been made statatury and why have caravaner's accepted the status que or am I too safty consious

 

[ProfJohnL]

aha force x distance. great stuff.

"Don't for get that for every 1Kg you move from the front to the rear it makes 2Kg difference at the hitch, so that means you only need to move the 5Kg to get you nose weight down to 75 for the car."- posted by Prof.

Unless you know how far the items are to be moved the statement above is incorrect.Measurements about the pivot point must be taken then turning moments can be calculated.

Conversely the statement is correct if the distances are equal.

I accept your point though, and I should have made it clear.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Looking back nearly 40 years, I wish I'd listened more in Physics!!!

If you look at what time I posted this, DANGER I have been thinking?

If a 34kg wieght is placed 1' in front a pivot (axel) then to counter act (balance) then a 4.25kg must be placed 8' to the back of the pivot. If then the front lever is longer than the 8' at the back and the 4.25kg is not added then the resulting force downwards is increased proportionally to the increased difference in length. I think! this would equate to about a third extra in my case making an increase of 5.66kg.

Couple this with the spare being put in the front locker, and the much heavier battery, I can see were the problems are.

The lengths I have used are guesstimates but if the distance back from the axel is only 6' (units etc)then the weight needed wuld be 5.66kg and without the weight an increase at the nose by 7.54kg

I may also have this A about T

Kel

Hello Kevin,

Yes you have it about right, though I think the lack of sleep is revealing your age using both metric and imperial units.

In essence its force x distance and we should be quoting it in Newton Meters, though it works just as well in Cwt/lightyear.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Kevin,

I'm only guessing, but as caravans are a relatively small proportion of the total trailer population, very specific calculations on a limited range of items is not really practical.

One must not also forget that caravans come in all sorts of different sizes and configurations, so no single figure for a particular item can be applied equally to all trailers.

But as you have demonstrated the calculation of turning moments is not too complicated.

Happy caravanning