noseweight gauges
- Thread starter james_374367899
- Start date
I dont think any are accurate enough, I use bathroom scales at home before leaving and try to load as near as I can remember when ready for the journey home. Never had any problems
Hello James,
Measuring nose weight is important, It is usually best to have the nose load as high as possible but with in the limits of your car and caravan, because getting wrong can result in a motoring offence. How ever don't let that frighten you as it is reasonably easy to keep the right side of the law.
First of all, all measurements must be carried out on a flat level surface. If you are on a slope it will corrupt the results. always chock you main wheels.
Find out the nose load limits of both the car and the caravan. If there is a difference you must use the lower of the two limits as your upper limit. Typically saloon cars are limited to 75Kg and caravan hitch are rated to 100Kg. always check limits for your particular car and caravan.
Set your gauge to a height of 350mm (measured to the centre of the ball)and set you caravan onto it. Raise the jockey wheel and any steadies that might be touching the ground. (350mm is the lowest limit the EU accepts 420mm is the upper limit)
Adjust you load inside the caravan to achieve your desired nose load.
Measure the distance from the floor to some convenient point on the hitch and note it.
still on the flat: Next load the car with every thing you are taking including people. Now hitch up the caravan and measure the distance to the same point on the hitch. The new measurement must the same or greater than the old, If not, the car is overloaded, and you must loose some weight from it.
You should now have a loaded caravan and car that meet the EU tow hitch height regulations.
Please be aware that simply meeting the above criteria does not guarantee a stable towing out fit.
Measuring nose weight is important, It is usually best to have the nose load as high as possible but with in the limits of your car and caravan, because getting wrong can result in a motoring offence. How ever don't let that frighten you as it is reasonably easy to keep the right side of the law.
First of all, all measurements must be carried out on a flat level surface. If you are on a slope it will corrupt the results. always chock you main wheels.
Find out the nose load limits of both the car and the caravan. If there is a difference you must use the lower of the two limits as your upper limit. Typically saloon cars are limited to 75Kg and caravan hitch are rated to 100Kg. always check limits for your particular car and caravan.
Set your gauge to a height of 350mm (measured to the centre of the ball)and set you caravan onto it. Raise the jockey wheel and any steadies that might be touching the ground. (350mm is the lowest limit the EU accepts 420mm is the upper limit)
Adjust you load inside the caravan to achieve your desired nose load.
Measure the distance from the floor to some convenient point on the hitch and note it.
still on the flat: Next load the car with every thing you are taking including people. Now hitch up the caravan and measure the distance to the same point on the hitch. The new measurement must the same or greater than the old, If not, the car is overloaded, and you must loose some weight from it.
You should now have a loaded caravan and car that meet the EU tow hitch height regulations.
Please be aware that simply meeting the above criteria does not guarantee a stable towing out fit.
The Reich Weight Control is accurate and will measure the weight on each axle and the nose and total them. It is
The RWC is not accurate?!, mine 'out of the box' is a mile out and got to go back for re-calibration, of course it's possible mine got a knock but it's a long way out!
To be honest for nose weight I'd trust the bathroom scales and a piece of wood far more!
John I'm not at all sure it matters that tow height 'on the road' is above 350mm, or for that matter below 420mm, these I thought were purely for manufactures to work too so one manufactures car and a van from another can be 'reasonably' compatible when brought together?
To be honest for nose weight I'd trust the bathroom scales and a piece of wood far more!
John I'm not at all sure it matters that tow height 'on the road' is above 350mm, or for that matter below 420mm, these I thought were purely for manufactures to work too so one manufactures car and a van from another can be 'reasonably' compatible when brought together?
I use one of the yellow W4-weigh it noseweight gauges. I measured my van noseweight using bathroom scales, and got it to where I wanted it. I then used the gauge and put a black mark on the scale to show the correct nose weight. I tend to ignore thw scale on the gauge and just use the black mark to get the correct nose weight.
Graeme.
Graeme.
Hi Gary,
Yes the industry does use the height limits as a form of common reference, but it has a further important impact on car and caravan design.
The ride height of the tow hitch is important because the EU directive requires that the cars tow hitch must fall within the range when a trailer is loaded, hitched and stationary. Failure to achieve this is a construction and use infringement. This is also the condition that is checked when doing roadside compliance checks.
The car manufactures are aware of this and will specify their nose load towing limits and boot loading so that this condition can be achieved. It is an implicit requirement for the vehicles type approval.
For reasons explained elsewhere on the forum, the nose load imposed by any given loaded caravan varies depending on the height of the hitch above the ground. It imposes a greater load the lower the hitch is and less when it is raised.
So if you set the imposed nose load of the caravan to the max limit for your outfit using a separate gauge set to any height above 350mm, when you couple it to your car, if it drops below the height of the gauge, the imposed nose load will increase and exceed your limit. You are therefore illegal on imposed nose load.
The second possible effect is that as the car accommodates the nose load the rear suspension and the hitch drops. If it drops below the lower limit of 350mm you are illegal.
So to protect yourself from either of these potential infringements, if you set you nose load at 350mm, the cars tow hitch should always sit above this lower limit when stationary. If the hitch is lower than 350mm then the car is overloaded, and some load must be shed to allow the hitch to rise.
Don't forget that passengers and fuel will also affect the cars suspension, so do make sure you check for the worst case scenario.
Whilst small infringements may not adversely affect safety, they do breech construction and use. If the car is not legally road-worthy then your insurance will be compromised.
Yes the industry does use the height limits as a form of common reference, but it has a further important impact on car and caravan design.
The ride height of the tow hitch is important because the EU directive requires that the cars tow hitch must fall within the range when a trailer is loaded, hitched and stationary. Failure to achieve this is a construction and use infringement. This is also the condition that is checked when doing roadside compliance checks.
The car manufactures are aware of this and will specify their nose load towing limits and boot loading so that this condition can be achieved. It is an implicit requirement for the vehicles type approval.
For reasons explained elsewhere on the forum, the nose load imposed by any given loaded caravan varies depending on the height of the hitch above the ground. It imposes a greater load the lower the hitch is and less when it is raised.
So if you set the imposed nose load of the caravan to the max limit for your outfit using a separate gauge set to any height above 350mm, when you couple it to your car, if it drops below the height of the gauge, the imposed nose load will increase and exceed your limit. You are therefore illegal on imposed nose load.
The second possible effect is that as the car accommodates the nose load the rear suspension and the hitch drops. If it drops below the lower limit of 350mm you are illegal.
So to protect yourself from either of these potential infringements, if you set you nose load at 350mm, the cars tow hitch should always sit above this lower limit when stationary. If the hitch is lower than 350mm then the car is overloaded, and some load must be shed to allow the hitch to rise.
Don't forget that passengers and fuel will also affect the cars suspension, so do make sure you check for the worst case scenario.
Whilst small infringements may not adversely affect safety, they do breech construction and use. If the car is not legally road-worthy then your insurance will be compromised.
Hi James
Ask a simple question and some people sure complicate the issue!!!
I have tried both types on sale from Towsure and found both of them rubbish at seeing what your reading is.
I now carry a cut off piece of broomstick and old (but still accurate) set of bathroom scales in the caravan and measure this each time after loading. Easy and scales also useful for weighing the gas bottles as well.
Takes up next to no weight but gives that "comfort factor" to know I am at correct noseweight.
Ask a simple question and some people sure complicate the issue!!!
I have tried both types on sale from Towsure and found both of them rubbish at seeing what your reading is.
I now carry a cut off piece of broomstick and old (but still accurate) set of bathroom scales in the caravan and measure this each time after loading. Easy and scales also useful for weighing the gas bottles as well.
Takes up next to no weight but gives that "comfort factor" to know I am at correct noseweight.
Hello Alan,
How do you know how your bathroom scales are accurate? I have never seen a set of calibrated domestic bathroom scales!
How do you know how your bathroom scales are accurate? I have never seen a set of calibrated domestic bathroom scales!
Now we are going from the sublime to the ridiculous!!
They are more than good enough for the job required.
Blimey!
Getting a little 'intense' here, aren't we chaps?
I use the yellow one with the red top (don't know who makes it).
I'm sure it's not been calibrated by Avery or whoever. It's a guideline. I worked to the guideline and my unit tows great.
That said, I might use the bathroom scales and compare the two.
And you CAN calibrate the bathroom scales by weighing a kilogram of sugar.
Right...(scuttles off to rob the bathroom scales)
Mac
Getting a little 'intense' here, aren't we chaps?
I use the yellow one with the red top (don't know who makes it).
I'm sure it's not been calibrated by Avery or whoever. It's a guideline. I worked to the guideline and my unit tows great.
That said, I might use the bathroom scales and compare the two.
And you CAN calibrate the bathroom scales by weighing a kilogram of sugar.
Right...(scuttles off to rob the bathroom scales)
Mac
Hello James,
As you can see from the posts above, nose weights can be difficult,
Unless a gauge has been calibrated, it has no credibility, and all the specialist nose weight gauges I have seen, have fairly coarse graduations so it is not possible to be accurate using them.
But lets try to practical:
The bathroom scales usually have the benefit of clearer graduations, and most have some method of adjustment, so it is possible to using normal household products such as sugar or large bags of cat litter or fertiliser etc, to check the accuracy of them.
Also using bathroom a scale you can prepare a support of the right length to mimic the EU minimum hitch height of 350mm (to the centre of the ball)
As you can see from the posts above, nose weights can be difficult,
Unless a gauge has been calibrated, it has no credibility, and all the specialist nose weight gauges I have seen, have fairly coarse graduations so it is not possible to be accurate using them.
But lets try to practical:
The bathroom scales usually have the benefit of clearer graduations, and most have some method of adjustment, so it is possible to using normal household products such as sugar or large bags of cat litter or fertiliser etc, to check the accuracy of them.
Also using bathroom a scale you can prepare a support of the right length to mimic the EU minimum hitch height of 350mm (to the centre of the ball)
I agree with John here, being practical and sensible is the best approach.
I use a small weight "comparator" (as all nose weight guages are not caliberated)which fits onto the tow ball of the car and the caravan hitch sits on top, thus captivating the guage.
You see, I used the pogo stick type guage and had a serious accident with it. I had put the pogo stick under the hitch and was stooping down to read it when it took off!! I can remember seeing 100Kgs as the reading and thinking that's too heavy. Next thing I'm covered in blood and spitting out chipped teeth. I had a hole in my lower lip needing 5 stitches which had to be done without anesthetic and 4 loose teeth that thankfully didn't die off. I still have no feeling in my bottom lip and have to test hot drinks with my finger to avoid burns.
Now doing things safely, using bathroom scales is a good idea. Just cut a piece of 20mm ply to the shape of the platform, allowing a cutout for the dial, and place it under the jockey wheel. Wind the wheel down onto the scales and lift the hitch to the level of the tow ball on the car. You now have a reasonable weight reading. I then placed my guage between ball and hitch and lowered down. Using a thin permanent marker, I've marked the guage so that now I have a comparator line to work with.
Getting the nose weight right is arguably the most important part of safe towing as excessive nose weight causes most sways of caravans.
Steve L.
I use a small weight "comparator" (as all nose weight guages are not caliberated)which fits onto the tow ball of the car and the caravan hitch sits on top, thus captivating the guage.
You see, I used the pogo stick type guage and had a serious accident with it. I had put the pogo stick under the hitch and was stooping down to read it when it took off!! I can remember seeing 100Kgs as the reading and thinking that's too heavy. Next thing I'm covered in blood and spitting out chipped teeth. I had a hole in my lower lip needing 5 stitches which had to be done without anesthetic and 4 loose teeth that thankfully didn't die off. I still have no feeling in my bottom lip and have to test hot drinks with my finger to avoid burns.
Now doing things safely, using bathroom scales is a good idea. Just cut a piece of 20mm ply to the shape of the platform, allowing a cutout for the dial, and place it under the jockey wheel. Wind the wheel down onto the scales and lift the hitch to the level of the tow ball on the car. You now have a reasonable weight reading. I then placed my guage between ball and hitch and lowered down. Using a thin permanent marker, I've marked the guage so that now I have a comparator line to work with.
Getting the nose weight right is arguably the most important part of safe towing as excessive nose weight causes most sways of caravans.
Steve L.
I agree with everything that the last two contributors say, except for the statement, "excessive nose weight causes most sways of caravans". In fact, quite the opposite is usually true. Inadequate noseweight causes instability. For excessive noseweight to cause instability, it would have to be so high that it is already completely obvious to the eye and you wouldn't need a noseweight gauge to recognise it. Besides, unless you are trained weightlifter, you probably wouldn't be able to lift the hitch over the towball.
Steve,
I am sure that I have advised you previously that measuring the weight using the jockey wheel is not accurate, because of the distance the point of contact is from the main wheels is less than the tow hitch itself.
It is also sensitive to the direction the jockey wheel is pointing, however in its favour is that the actual nose weight will always be less than the force measured at the jockey wheel.
So setting to theoretical maximum down force at the jockey wheel will always keep you under the legal limit at the hitch.
I am sure that I have advised you previously that measuring the weight using the jockey wheel is not accurate, because of the distance the point of contact is from the main wheels is less than the tow hitch itself.
It is also sensitive to the direction the jockey wheel is pointing, however in its favour is that the actual nose weight will always be less than the force measured at the jockey wheel.
So setting to theoretical maximum down force at the jockey wheel will always keep you under the legal limit at the hitch.
I calibrate my nose weight gauge by placing it IN the hitch & resting on the bathroom scales & compare the weight reading on both,then mark the noseweight gauge after loading the van to get the correct 75kg noseweight.Then I can be sure that the gauge is accurate when I repack the van. to all newbies,remember do not place heavy items to the rear of the van in order to get the correct noseweight keep them over the axle & lowdown
Hello Tony,
You method has considerable merit, By coupling in series and then comparing the indicated loads you can establish a correlation between the two devices. If as you say you mark the special nose load gauge when the the bathroom scales show 75Kg, then you have a benchmark.
However it is important to understand that if your were then to remove the bathroom scales and the gauge now rest directly on the ground, then the indicated down force will be greater that 75Kg. For this reason you must the readjust your loading to allow for this.
For the same reason, it is important that the gauge is either adjusted to match the height the tow ball assumes when the caravan I hitched and the car is stationary and fully loaded, Or simply set the gauge to be 350mm tall (to the centre of the ball) as 350mm is lowest permitted hitch height, your car should always ride at or above this height, and so the nose load will never exceed 75Kg whilst stationary.
There is a fly in the ointment, How accurate are your bathroom scales? as a salutatory lesson, I was admitted to hospital three years ago. Immediately on admission I was weighed, and again about half a hour later on a different set of scales. The two readings were over 2.5Kg differnt. I pointed this out to the staff and asked are the scales calibrated, and yes they were, but out of date.
Knowing that the amount of some types of medication are prescribed based on patients body mass, this was worrying. I suggested they got them sorted and quickly. The second set of scales were replaced with some new ones by the end of the next day.
If this can happen to professional scales, what about your calibrated domestic ones!
You method has considerable merit, By coupling in series and then comparing the indicated loads you can establish a correlation between the two devices. If as you say you mark the special nose load gauge when the the bathroom scales show 75Kg, then you have a benchmark.
However it is important to understand that if your were then to remove the bathroom scales and the gauge now rest directly on the ground, then the indicated down force will be greater that 75Kg. For this reason you must the readjust your loading to allow for this.
For the same reason, it is important that the gauge is either adjusted to match the height the tow ball assumes when the caravan I hitched and the car is stationary and fully loaded, Or simply set the gauge to be 350mm tall (to the centre of the ball) as 350mm is lowest permitted hitch height, your car should always ride at or above this height, and so the nose load will never exceed 75Kg whilst stationary.
There is a fly in the ointment, How accurate are your bathroom scales? as a salutatory lesson, I was admitted to hospital three years ago. Immediately on admission I was weighed, and again about half a hour later on a different set of scales. The two readings were over 2.5Kg differnt. I pointed this out to the staff and asked are the scales calibrated, and yes they were, but out of date.
Knowing that the amount of some types of medication are prescribed based on patients body mass, this was worrying. I suggested they got them sorted and quickly. The second set of scales were replaced with some new ones by the end of the next day.
If this can happen to professional scales, what about your calibrated domestic ones!
Hi John,
"Knowing that the amount of some types of medication are prescribed based on patients body mass, this was worrying."
Not really - if you were / are taking medication in tablet form, then batches of tablets must pass a "Content Uniformity" test to ensure consistency of dose. From the batch, ten tablets are individually assayed - and none of the ten must deviate by more than 15% from the dose stated on the label.
Mainly because it's very difficult to mix powders into a truly homogeneous mix, and the machines that compress the powder into tablets don't get exactly the same weight of powder each time...
Robert
"Knowing that the amount of some types of medication are prescribed based on patients body mass, this was worrying."
Not really - if you were / are taking medication in tablet form, then batches of tablets must pass a "Content Uniformity" test to ensure consistency of dose. From the batch, ten tablets are individually assayed - and none of the ten must deviate by more than 15% from the dose stated on the label.
Mainly because it's very difficult to mix powders into a truly homogeneous mix, and the machines that compress the powder into tablets don't get exactly the same weight of powder each time...
Robert
Hi Robert,
Yes I understand that the consistency of the formulation in a tablet or powder will be pretty uniform, I was referring to the dosing of patients by body mass, where a particular dose will be given for patients up to a certain weight, but a larger dose will be prescribed for heavier patients.
If the scales are reading High, then a patinet may be overdosed, and conversly if they are low insufficeint dose may be prescribed.
Yes I understand that the consistency of the formulation in a tablet or powder will be pretty uniform, I was referring to the dosing of patients by body mass, where a particular dose will be given for patients up to a certain weight, but a larger dose will be prescribed for heavier patients.
If the scales are reading High, then a patinet may be overdosed, and conversly if they are low insufficeint dose may be prescribed.
At the risk of many replies pointing out the error of my ways....
Provided that whatever scales you use are roughly in the correct ball park, say +/- 15-20%, I am not sure it really matters. If you carry the method for weighing with you whilst towing, and are stopped by the BIB, then you can at least demonstrate that you tried to set the noseweight correctly with the equipment available.
If you have a noseweight limit on a car of say 75kg, and it "accidentally" ends up at 90kg because of unreliable scales, then it is still within the safety margin used by the tow bar designers. Not ideal, but it does not mean that the tow hitch is going to fail.
Setting the nose weight with a pair of scales (with unknown accuracy) is still infinitely better than not bothering to measure it at all, and shows that at least you are likely to have made some reasonable effort to load the van wisely to achieve a desired noseweight. As a check, I use both a w4 noseweight guage and the electronic bathroom scales. I know approximately what I weigh, and that is not far off the desired nose weight I use. I can do a quick check on both the bathroom scales, and with some careful balancing on the W4 guage also (to the amusement of neighbours) just to check that they are reading correctly. I then have reasonable confidence that the van noseweight is approximately correct.
Cheers
David
Provided that whatever scales you use are roughly in the correct ball park, say +/- 15-20%, I am not sure it really matters. If you carry the method for weighing with you whilst towing, and are stopped by the BIB, then you can at least demonstrate that you tried to set the noseweight correctly with the equipment available.
If you have a noseweight limit on a car of say 75kg, and it "accidentally" ends up at 90kg because of unreliable scales, then it is still within the safety margin used by the tow bar designers. Not ideal, but it does not mean that the tow hitch is going to fail.
Setting the nose weight with a pair of scales (with unknown accuracy) is still infinitely better than not bothering to measure it at all, and shows that at least you are likely to have made some reasonable effort to load the van wisely to achieve a desired noseweight. As a check, I use both a w4 noseweight guage and the electronic bathroom scales. I know approximately what I weigh, and that is not far off the desired nose weight I use. I can do a quick check on both the bathroom scales, and with some careful balancing on the W4 guage also (to the amusement of neighbours) just to check that they are reading correctly. I then have reasonable confidence that the van noseweight is approximately correct.
Cheers
David
yes I do realize that the height in relation to the the scale+gauge is important & use a wood packer under the gauge in order to make sure the van is level when away. I also have a citroen which is self levelling according to load which is a + factor
Hello David,
Yes I am going to point out the serious error of your ways.
The issue here is not about the mechanical durability of the tow hitch etc, but about the legality. Like you I am certain that a few Kg over the legal limit is unlikely to damage the vehicle or radically impair safety.
Ignorance is no defence in Law, and if you do over load the hitch or any other regulated feature of a road vehicle, then even showing that you made some effort to check the feature, but knowingly used inaccurate equipment, it does not diminish the offence, but it MIGHT reduce the sanction. That is strictly a matter for the courts to decide on a case by case basis.
The courts may well take the view that if you knew the measuring equipment was inaccurate, you should have made provision to accommodate the inaccuracy. In the case of nose force, deliberately reducing the force by a margin greater than the inaccuracy.
Yes I am going to point out the serious error of your ways.
The issue here is not about the mechanical durability of the tow hitch etc, but about the legality. Like you I am certain that a few Kg over the legal limit is unlikely to damage the vehicle or radically impair safety.
Ignorance is no defence in Law, and if you do over load the hitch or any other regulated feature of a road vehicle, then even showing that you made some effort to check the feature, but knowingly used inaccurate equipment, it does not diminish the offence, but it MIGHT reduce the sanction. That is strictly a matter for the courts to decide on a case by case basis.
The courts may well take the view that if you knew the measuring equipment was inaccurate, you should have made provision to accommodate the inaccuracy. In the case of nose force, deliberately reducing the force by a margin greater than the inaccuracy.
Has anyone heard of a case where someone has been prosecuted for an incorrect noseweight, especially if the overload is only a few killos? I would have thought the police had enough deliberate law breaking to worry about, e.g. speeding caravaners, than to go round measuring noseweights. When we are talking about the noseweight difference obtained with or without a piece of wood the thickness of bathroom scales under the noseweight gauge I think we may be taking things to the extreme.
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