https://youtu.be/Phhaw-wAgh0
Judge for yourself.
The first part looked like tail gating to me but there is better.
Judge for yourself.
The first part looked like tail gating to me but there is better.
Oh Dear. Whose fault?
- Thread starter Dustydog
- Start date
The guy towing the caravan needs to re sit his driving test, I say re sit but going by his standard of driving it's got to be the first time he has ever sat behind the wheel so can't have taken a driving test.
BP
BP
Seen it before but two things immediately spring to mind. Its the caravanners fault, but I also see a deliberate act on the part of the trucker, trucker in the loosest definition.
So, the old buffer automatically assumes that if he is indicating he has right of way. He also assumes the truck has seen him indicating behind him.
But, I note the truck was keeping a sensible gap all the way through the stop start traffic, UNTIL he saw the caravan in his mirrors indicating and made a conscious effort to close the gap, you can hear him rev hard.
I think they had already touched once and at that point the trucker is fully aware of whats happening and he simply refuses to give way. He makes no effort to slow down and he must have been watching in his mirror.
So, caravanner at fault but truck could have avoided the accident and made a conscious decision not to do so.
Now, you could have warned me about the vile language, I had to sit through nearly ten minutes of a Manchester City commentary before the accident.
So, the old buffer automatically assumes that if he is indicating he has right of way. He also assumes the truck has seen him indicating behind him.
But, I note the truck was keeping a sensible gap all the way through the stop start traffic, UNTIL he saw the caravan in his mirrors indicating and made a conscious effort to close the gap, you can hear him rev hard.
I think they had already touched once and at that point the trucker is fully aware of whats happening and he simply refuses to give way. He makes no effort to slow down and he must have been watching in his mirror.
So, caravanner at fault but truck could have avoided the accident and made a conscious decision not to do so.
Now, you could have warned me about the vile language, I had to sit through nearly ten minutes of a Manchester City commentary before the accident.
Parksy
Moderator
I've seen this footage before, it happened about a year ago not far from where I live.
The caravanner must have had a death wish, he was trying to join at Jn1 of the M5 at the Ray Hall interchange near Walsall which is always congested. If he'd have continued on the M6 southbound for a further junction a couple of miles down the road to Great Barr he could easily have left the M6 and rejoined opposite, staying in the entry lane on the left to get to the M5 with less congestion or potential for hazard.
The caravanner was an idiot to try to force his way in, but I have to say that the other driver could have shown some courtesy and backed off a little to allow the towing outfit to join the M5, even if he'd have cursed the caravanner later when he overtook him. If the camera car driver was unaware of the caravan making an ill judged manoeuvrer he obviously hadn't checked his rear view door mirror, but from the way that the camera car appeared to move to the right just before the collision the driver knew and looked as though he was being bloody minded by blocking the tuggers exit, even if he had left it very late.
I'm glad that no one was seriously hurt but it should never have happened.
The caravanner must have had a death wish, he was trying to join at Jn1 of the M5 at the Ray Hall interchange near Walsall which is always congested. If he'd have continued on the M6 southbound for a further junction a couple of miles down the road to Great Barr he could easily have left the M6 and rejoined opposite, staying in the entry lane on the left to get to the M5 with less congestion or potential for hazard.
The caravanner was an idiot to try to force his way in, but I have to say that the other driver could have shown some courtesy and backed off a little to allow the towing outfit to join the M5, even if he'd have cursed the caravanner later when he overtook him. If the camera car driver was unaware of the caravan making an ill judged manoeuvrer he obviously hadn't checked his rear view door mirror, but from the way that the camera car appeared to move to the right just before the collision the driver knew and looked as though he was being bloody minded by blocking the tuggers exit, even if he had left it very late.
I'm glad that no one was seriously hurt but it should never have happened.
yeah agree with Parksy, seen it before, been down that bit of road many times although not with the road works on usually there is 2 lanes down to the M5 on that slip road, to analyze the footage it becomes obvious that bad road manners are to blame by all parties, each should get a ban for careless driving or undue care.and attention, attention being the correct word.
caravan driver. the first 10 sec of the footage clearly shows a sign for the off ramp, there is one also further back before the lines change [anyone notice that] then again at 30sec and again as the road splts, there would have been plenty of time to change into the right lane well before the cut off, and if there is no chance to get over, he could have, should have gone to the next junction and then turned off not try to force your way in plus why was he in the middle lane anyway, for a least 2 miles before the road splits it tells you providing you read the signs, the white van in front got in ok, up the road where was the caravan at that point as he came passed quite fast.
van driver or whatever it was, proceeding along quite nicely until he saw the van indicate it was almost passed at one point but he decide the van wasn't going to get in and bloody mindedly speeded up to stop it, easing off the right boot would have allowed the van to pull over, but no,
that car in front what a prat braking holding back panicking because there was a police car in front, probably had no licence or MOT and didn't want to get to close,
in all complete stupidity by all concerned just the sort of thing that happens every day ban them all and make the roads safer .
caravan driver. the first 10 sec of the footage clearly shows a sign for the off ramp, there is one also further back before the lines change [anyone notice that] then again at 30sec and again as the road splts, there would have been plenty of time to change into the right lane well before the cut off, and if there is no chance to get over, he could have, should have gone to the next junction and then turned off not try to force your way in plus why was he in the middle lane anyway, for a least 2 miles before the road splits it tells you providing you read the signs, the white van in front got in ok, up the road where was the caravan at that point as he came passed quite fast.
van driver or whatever it was, proceeding along quite nicely until he saw the van indicate it was almost passed at one point but he decide the van wasn't going to get in and bloody mindedly speeded up to stop it, easing off the right boot would have allowed the van to pull over, but no,
that car in front what a prat braking holding back panicking because there was a police car in front, probably had no licence or MOT and didn't want to get to close,
in all complete stupidity by all concerned just the sort of thing that happens every day ban them all and make the roads safer .
Parksy wrote :- "The caravanner was an idiot to try to force his way in, but I have to say that the other driver could have shown some courtesy and backed off a little"
Backing off does not always work out; I have twice had incidents where it does not.
I was once in fairly heavy traffic on a two-lane dual carriageway bit of the A55 (N Wales) with a fair sized gap (~4 lengths) both in front and behind me. A Jaguar came in from a slip road about 2 lengths ahead of me (no problem) but then he put his brakes on and slid back to alongside me. So to "help" him I increased speed to let him in behind but at that moment he decided to speed up again.
There was no hard shoulder, and we ended up three cars abreast with me exactly straddling the white line between the two lanes - there could only have been inches between us.
On another occasion my efforts to help someone in from a slip road during a 10mph M-way jam, he mistook it as trying to balk him. He was furious, hooting and waving, and even followed me off the M-way for a time. I lost him eventually.
Basically it is up to the joiner to cope with the getting into lane.
Backing off does not always work out; I have twice had incidents where it does not.
I was once in fairly heavy traffic on a two-lane dual carriageway bit of the A55 (N Wales) with a fair sized gap (~4 lengths) both in front and behind me. A Jaguar came in from a slip road about 2 lengths ahead of me (no problem) but then he put his brakes on and slid back to alongside me. So to "help" him I increased speed to let him in behind but at that moment he decided to speed up again.
There was no hard shoulder, and we ended up three cars abreast with me exactly straddling the white line between the two lanes - there could only have been inches between us.
On another occasion my efforts to help someone in from a slip road during a 10mph M-way jam, he mistook it as trying to balk him. He was furious, hooting and waving, and even followed me off the M-way for a time. I lost him eventually.
Basically it is up to the joiner to cope with the getting into lane.
Of course the caravan is at fault for failing to make observation and his lane discipline. The lorry driver however shames us other hgv drivers by his poor actions.
The caravan driver duh is towing a caravan which means his ability to see in his mirrors is not so good. I have four my truck for rear observation and all of them significantly larger than the caravan. The truck driver should have allowed for that but instead of dropping back chose to close the gap. Its a couple towing a caravan not some white van driver taking the mickey and skirting round the que.
The fact that he is in a caravan to me could indicate that he does not often travel that way and the M6 along that stretch can be confusing, especialy when driving something you are not used to.
The truck driver is not an owner driver then willing to damage his truck just to stop what he feels is someone pushing in. I would not be pleased if he was one ofy drivers.
I feel apllalled at the truck driver. We are supposed to be proffesionals, masters of the road, it is us that show our skill and manner.
Not impressed with either driver.
The caravan driver duh is towing a caravan which means his ability to see in his mirrors is not so good. I have four my truck for rear observation and all of them significantly larger than the caravan. The truck driver should have allowed for that but instead of dropping back chose to close the gap. Its a couple towing a caravan not some white van driver taking the mickey and skirting round the que.
The fact that he is in a caravan to me could indicate that he does not often travel that way and the M6 along that stretch can be confusing, especialy when driving something you are not used to.
The truck driver is not an owner driver then willing to damage his truck just to stop what he feels is someone pushing in. I would not be pleased if he was one ofy drivers.
I feel apllalled at the truck driver. We are supposed to be proffesionals, masters of the road, it is us that show our skill and manner.
Not impressed with either driver.
I had a very similar thing happen to me whilst returning from Zummerzet last Saturday.
I was on the inside lane of the M1 doing 60 towing and the two outer lanes were busy so I had nowhere to go. I saw a VW Crafter coming down the slip road and as he came alongside me he just put his flasher on and went to join my lane presumably expecting me to move out or brake. I did neither as I had an artic right on my tail and the van driver suddenly realised what he was doing and both braked and ran off the slip onto the hard shoulder. He then stopped and had to wait until there was a gap in the traffic to get going again - which he did by starting off and pulling straight out into the lane rather than speeding upon the hard shoulder first. It was a UK registration but a white van..................
I think he was on his phone at the outset.....................
I was on the inside lane of the M1 doing 60 towing and the two outer lanes were busy so I had nowhere to go. I saw a VW Crafter coming down the slip road and as he came alongside me he just put his flasher on and went to join my lane presumably expecting me to move out or brake. I did neither as I had an artic right on my tail and the van driver suddenly realised what he was doing and both braked and ran off the slip onto the hard shoulder. He then stopped and had to wait until there was a gap in the traffic to get going again - which he did by starting off and pulling straight out into the lane rather than speeding upon the hard shoulder first. It was a UK registration but a white van..................
I think he was on his phone at the outset.....................
In simple terms the caravan driver was to blame. He failed to get into the slip road and simply pulled in front of the truck when it was clearly impossible to do so. If he needed to get into the nearside lane he should have slowed down and found a gap long before he got to that point. I f he could not get in then he had to continue onto the next junction. Hr wrecked his car out of sheer stupidity and that is it.
Ray is spot on. .......the driver breaking the law is driving the car towing the caravan.
The footage is an advert for those who think there should be a new driving test for drivers who wish to tow.
The agressive driver is oblivious to the length of his outfit.
The footage is an advert for those who think there should be a new driving test for drivers who wish to tow.
The agressive driver is oblivious to the length of his outfit.
New drivers need a seperate test for towing now anyway from what I understand. I do think it is needed as it only improves driving standards on road.
The truck driver in the clip has taken a test, hasnt either improved his driving or his attitude. The guy with the caravan was typical of a certain breed, not just caravanners but on the road in general. "IM INDICATING, THEREFORE I HAVE RIGHT OF WAY"
The truck driver could have avoided the incident, he chose not too, aggressive driving from him, stupidity from the caravanner. Having spent 35 years driving artics and 20 odd years caravanning, I can see it from both angles. Neither come out of that with any glory.
Its amazing how many so called accidents are down to stupidity. It makes you wonder if there really are any "just accidents".
The truck driver could have avoided the incident, he chose not too, aggressive driving from him, stupidity from the caravanner. Having spent 35 years driving artics and 20 odd years caravanning, I can see it from both angles. Neither come out of that with any glory.
Its amazing how many so called accidents are down to stupidity. It makes you wonder if there really are any "just accidents".
yes I totally agree, been in the same situation many times from both sides, yet after 50 years of driving remain 100% accident free. it is why such incidents are referred to as collisions and not accidents.
there are a lot of poor drivers out there with little or no spacial awareness, added to the fact that there is different types of aggressive drivers, there's the i'm indicating get out of my way type, the I'm not going to let you in type, the I'm in the right lane sod you type, and the got to get passed one more car at any cost type, put a couple of these types together and you have a collision.
no one in the clip comes out smelling of roses,
there are a lot of poor drivers out there with little or no spacial awareness, added to the fact that there is different types of aggressive drivers, there's the i'm indicating get out of my way type, the I'm not going to let you in type, the I'm in the right lane sod you type, and the got to get passed one more car at any cost type, put a couple of these types together and you have a collision.
no one in the clip comes out smelling of roses,
That's why we will have fewer accidents once vehicles drive themselves, takes out all the human intervention.
ricky_s wrote :-
If you follow the IT news scene you will see a constant stream of horror stories involving software failures due to viruses, uninvited micro-management of your device by software vendors like Microsoft and Apple, and unintended consequences even when things are running "normally". In case you think car driving software will be specially protected from such things, they have ocurred even in specialised machines such as used in medical operations. Just some examples this week :-
http://news.softpedia.com/news/medical-equipment-crashes-during-heart-procedure-because-of-antivirus-scan-503642.shtml
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMPeTrHNX1U
https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/05/04/apple-stole-my-music-no-seriously/
http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2016/05/05/microsofts-windows-10-updates-shut-pro-gamers-live-stream-130k-viewers/#gref
The human factor will still be there in the writing of self-driving software. Personally, I often find with software that its writer has failed to think of my particular scenario (or could not be bothered with it). How are they going to cover all driving scenarios?
Near me are two sets of traffic lights (for a pedestrian crossing and a junction) about four car lengths apart. Most of the time one set is green while the other is red so only four cars are able to move off while another 50 are held back for no good reason. As long as the powers that be cannot even get two simple sets of traffic lights to work together sensibly, I am not looking forward to self-driving cars trying to do so either.
They will just be a different type of accident.
If you follow the IT news scene you will see a constant stream of horror stories involving software failures due to viruses, uninvited micro-management of your device by software vendors like Microsoft and Apple, and unintended consequences even when things are running "normally". In case you think car driving software will be specially protected from such things, they have ocurred even in specialised machines such as used in medical operations. Just some examples this week :-
http://news.softpedia.com/news/medical-equipment-crashes-during-heart-procedure-because-of-antivirus-scan-503642.shtml
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMPeTrHNX1U
https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/05/04/apple-stole-my-music-no-seriously/
http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2016/05/05/microsofts-windows-10-updates-shut-pro-gamers-live-stream-130k-viewers/#gref
The human factor will still be there in the writing of self-driving software. Personally, I often find with software that its writer has failed to think of my particular scenario (or could not be bothered with it). How are they going to cover all driving scenarios?
Near me are two sets of traffic lights (for a pedestrian crossing and a junction) about four car lengths apart. Most of the time one set is green while the other is red so only four cars are able to move off while another 50 are held back for no good reason. As long as the powers that be cannot even get two simple sets of traffic lights to work together sensibly, I am not looking forward to self-driving cars trying to do so either.
And the other scenario as you are bimbling nicely down the M5, with Swifts finest safely on the back, and the car software gets hacked by a disgruntled eleven year old who was deprived of the chance to own a Scalextric when daddy was sent back to prison.
Ever wondered what that little plastic man felt like? You will. :lol:
Moderator Edit
All constructive comments are valuable to Practical Caravan but outdated sexist remarks have no place on this forum or website.
I have removed your ill advised comment, please consider carefully the wisdom of submitting inflammatory remarks to the message boards in future
Ever wondered what that little plastic man felt like? You will. :lol:
Moderator Edit
All constructive comments are valuable to Practical Caravan but outdated sexist remarks have no place on this forum or website.
I have removed your ill advised comment, please consider carefully the wisdom of submitting inflammatory remarks to the message boards in future
..........do you take that apalling attitude with you when you are driving a vehicle on the public highway?Thingy said:
Parksy
Moderator
Gafferbill said:
Well said Bill. As you will see, I've removed the offensive comment and hopefully made it quite clear that comments of that nature have no place here and won't be tolerated.
Well I guess thats ruined it here for me.
Before I go, I will say this.
The comment I made was supposed to be a bit of light hearted banter, nothing more. In hindsight, it may well have been ill advised, but it wasnt meant to cause offence and indeed I am mortified that it has done so. Of course, I apologise unreservedley to the lady/ladies offended. I didnt see it, and still don't as anything different to something the average commedian would say on prime time TV before the watershed. However, I dont set out to offend people and I am sorry that it has.
Before I go, I will say this.
The comment I made was supposed to be a bit of light hearted banter, nothing more. In hindsight, it may well have been ill advised, but it wasnt meant to cause offence and indeed I am mortified that it has done so. Of course, I apologise unreservedley to the lady/ladies offended. I didnt see it, and still don't as anything different to something the average commedian would say on prime time TV before the watershed. However, I dont set out to offend people and I am sorry that it has.
Parksy
Moderator
Please don't take it to heart, it's not the end of the world. I hadn't much time available earlier today so am guilty of acting a bit hastily and perhaps seemed unduly harsh. I've now forwarded an email in order to explain the situation.Thingy said:
Parksy
Thingy.......please note that my post to you was in the form of a question as I hoped that with hindsight you would reconsider what you had written in a thread largely concerned with road safety.
You have done just that......as far as I am concerned everything is fine......keep posting.
P.S...... glad you got rid of that vicious looking Emu type bird.
You have done just that......as far as I am concerned everything is fine......keep posting.
P.S...... glad you got rid of that vicious looking Emu type bird.
Thingy.
You won't be the first nor the last who made a faux pas
We've all done it
"Man was sent here by the Martians to plague Woman" .Or was it the other way round .
See . Easily done.
Keep posting mate. B)
You won't be the first nor the last who made a faux pas
We've all done it "Man was sent here by the Martians to plague Woman" .Or was it the other way round
.See . Easily done.
Keep posting mate. B)
I don't think it upset anyone Thingy. The moderators however have a duty of care as to the content that is posted. With today's pc world they must ensure that content is not sexiest, racist, homophobic or anti Semitic whatever for legal reasons.
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