Old caravan heating

[Sandbag]

Hi all,

New here


We recently bought a 1978 compass citizen 400.

It has a (working) carver cascade 2 in it.

As I'm.new to caravaning but quite handy I'm trying to figure out the heating options (air, not water).

Is it possible to use that water heater as a heater to send water to some kind of radiator(s) around the caravan?

Im assuming not due to the small size of the tank and how long it takes to heat up but thought I'd ask.

If not, what are my options?

Thanks in advance

 

[RogerL]

The Carver Cascade was only about 400w so simply not powerful enough for space heating - it would have been an aftermarket fitment on a caravan of that age as the Cascade 2 was introduced until the '80s.

Your options for space heating are varied, depending on whether you use site with electric hook-up or not - you could fit a Carver/Truma room-sealed gas heater and maybe upgrade it with mains electric Ultraheat and fan assistance - you could fit Alde central heating - both of those would be expensive - a simple electric fan heater may provide all you need.

 

[audiorob]

Considering the costs and the amount of work involved in other options, I would go with a small fan heater or oil filled rad. ensure that a fan heater has an ant-topple cut-off device and that either is thermostatically controlled. You are only heating up a small space so maintaining a cosy environment should be no issue!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Sandbag,

Welcome to the forum,

A previous owner must have had the Cascade 2 (C2) fitted, as the C2 wasn't available when your caravan was manufactured.

The C2 was originally only available as a gas powered model but within a couple of years the Cascade 2GE model was produced that included a 230V electrical element.

The gas side was always 1.2Kw heat input, but the electrical side started with a low 610W element and later models known as the Rapide had a slightly larger 810W rating.

The Cascade was never designed to provide space heating.

Bearing in mind the age of your caravan,its insulation properties will be quite poor compared to more modern ones. These would not perform particularly well in winter conditions, (but I have known worse)

As a modest four berth caravan, if a space heater were fitted it would have been 1.8kw input (1.6kW heat output) model typically a Truma/Carver SB18000 convector heater. Wet systems were virtually unheard of and certainly not fitted as standard to UK caravans.

Again bearing in mind the age and probable value of your caravan, it would cost more to have any form of "caravan" heater fitted, than the van is worth. It would be far cheaper as both RogerL and Audiorob have suggested to use a portable 1.5 to 1.8kw electric heater. This also makes more sense now than when the caravan was built, as far more pitches now have mains power available.

 

[Sandbag]

thank you very much for all your responses. Few more folloups:

1. How much is a gas heater or a "full" central heating system costs? just so I would have a clue
2. When you say portable 1.8kw electric heater - what exactly do you mean?

Ideally, I would like to have a solution that would work also when not hooked up though that's the vast minority of the times.

Thanks again,

Guy

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Guy,

Most caravans of this age will have been designed to allow the fitting of a "Carver/Truma SB1800" heater at the foot of the wardrobe. This type of heater had both its air intake and its exhaust passing through the floor. Carver stopped making touring caravan heaters in 2000, and Truma no longer seem to list this model or a direct equivalent, so the obvious choice would be a more powerful Truma 3000 series, which uses through floor air intake but the flue is now a chimney on the roof. A wardrobe installation is a good solution.

There is also the Ultraheat model , which also has a pair of 230V heating elements, so mains power can be used rather than gas,

The 3000 series are most frequently used with an optional blown air system to distribute hot air from the heater.

In theory you could start with just the gas covector, and add the blown air at a later date.

Truma also has some other more modern solutions combining water and space heating.

Less common but becoming increasingly popular is an Alde gas powered wet system. This has to have a heat distribution system of water pipes. It can also provide hot water, These also needs a roof flue,

You will need to get a quote for supply and fit from a fitter, but I guess just for a Truma 3000 convector only you'd be looking at about £500 and rising towards £1200 for a combine gas and electric water system.

When I suggested a 1.5 to 1.8kw electric heater I was not being specific about a type of electric heater only the power rating. The type of electric heater is a matter of personal choice , it could be fan heater, or an oil filled heater.

As you have identified you would like to caravan off grid, then electric heating is not a practical solution for you. I would point you towards a Truma 3000 Heater.

Fitting such an appliance is not really a DIY job unless you have the appropriate qualifications.

 

[Sandbag]

thank you very much for the responses

 

[Buckman]

Whatever Sandbag decides they should not have a free standing gas heater inside a caravan otherwsie they will not wake up! Oil or electric heater is best.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Oil or electric heater is best?

Electric yes that would be fine, but I'm not sure what you mean by an Oil heater?

Oil heaters use paraffin, and burn a flame, and that would be just as dangerous as a stand alone gas fire, But if you mean an oil filled heater, then that is an electric heater, and would also be fine.

 

[Sandbag]

Thanks but an electric solution won't be available when off grid.

 

[Buckman]

Thanks but an electric solution won't be available when off grid.

Do not use a gas heater inside the caravan as it will kill you unless you have the correct isolated ducting!

 

[Raywood]

I think the water heating idea is a none starter as apart from the cost to fit they are normally designed to fit individual caravans and are not available off the shelf. For off the grid use I would go with the prof in that you would need to upgrade the heater and the only safe option with a free standing one is electric when on a hook up.
I believe the caravan is a small two berth and if so the heater fitted should manage. personally I would try it out first on a site with a hook up and see if it copes, just bring an electric heater with you as back up.
If you are using an electric heater do be aware of its power consumption. I suspect that given the caravans age there is not a lot of other electrical items, but if you are on a site with less than 16 amps electrics you may need to watch what you have running.

 

[Buckman]

Maybe it should be mentioned that to fit radiators will cost upwards of £3000. To fit the later carver or Truma gas and electric heating probbaly in excess of £1000 even second hand due to the number of modifications that need to be done plus cost of a gas engineer to check installation. Not worth it on a caravan that old.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Unless the caravan is in exceptional condition ( and I mean like new!) it will cost more to fit any form of heating than the caravan is worth. It certainly won't increase its value enough to cover its cost. It would economically more sense to exchange the caravan for model with it already fitted.

I would also be very wary about attempting to fit second hand gas appliances, they should be at least checked by a professional for completeness and operation , and of course the fitting needs to be performed to meet the present standards by a competent person.

 

[Dustydog]

Amazingly, portable gas heaters for caravans are freely available in theUK. Certainly NOT something I would want to use!

Portable Gas Heater Camping Caravan Outdoor Fishing Butane Gas Canisters : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Free delivery and returns on all eligible orders. Shop Portable Gas Heater Camping Caravan Outdoor Fishing Butane Gas Canisters.

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[Beachball]

Hi all,

New here


We recently bought a 1978 compass citizen 400.

It has a (working) carver cascade 2 in it.

As I'm.new to caravaning but quite handy I'm trying to figure out the heating options (air, not water).

Is it possible to use that water heater as a heater to send water to some kind of radiator(s) around the caravan?

Im assuming not due to the small size of the tank and how long it takes to heat up but thought I'd ask.

If not, what are my options?

Thanks in advance

Hi i come across caravan similar yours that he put in a Kampa Geyser hot water system which powers the hot power shower . in the wet /bathroom and also use with the sink please see Youtube video to see how it works and its runs off 12v ..

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi i come across caravan similar yours that he put in a Kampa Geyser hot water system which powers the hot power shower . in the wet /bathroom and also use with the sink please see Youtube video to see how it works and its runs off 12v ..

Hello Beachball and Dusty,
The device you have highlighted is a water heater, not a space heater. It is has an open flue and therefore is not approved or safe to install in a caravan. There are a number of similar products which are designed for outdoor camping, not indoor caravanning.

 

[Hutch]

The oil heaters metioned, I think are the oil filled, type, but electric, Fully sealed non spillable type, we have one at home. Took it away when a friend had a full awning to warm it. Really efficient. But I don't heat awnings.

 

[Beachball]

Kampa have developed this product so that you can have the pleasure of instant continuous hot water on tap which makes the Geyser idea for camping Caravanning expeditions outdoor sports .
The Geyser has built in safety features has a automatic iginition system and comes complete with a strong carry case and will work with most popular Gas Cylinders .
it so easy to use
1/ Attach to suitable gas cylinder (hose regulator and cylinder not supplied
2/ Attach the submersible water pump to the unit and drop the water pump into a supply of clean water
12volt Dc pump connection

 

[Buckman]

Kampa have developed this product so that you can have the pleasure of instant continuous hot water on tap which makes the Geyser idea for camping Caravanning expeditions outdoor sports .
The Geyser has built in safety features has a automatic iginition system and comes complete with a strong carry case and will work with most popular Gas Cylinders .
it so easy to use
1/ Attach to suitable gas cylinder (hose regulator and cylinder not supplied
2/ Attach the submersible water pump to the unit and drop the water pump into a supply of clean water
12volt Dc pump connection

Don't really trust anything that comes from China especially a gas appliance. Whatever they do seems to end up killing you. LOL!

 

[RogerL]

Don't really trust anything that comes from China especially a gas appliance. Whatever they do seems to end up killing you. LOL!

So much comes from China these days, particularly components, that you'd need to go back to cave dwelling to avoid everything from China.

 

[Buckman]

So much comes from China these days, particularly components, that you'd need to go back to cave dwelling to avoid everything from China.

Very true, but still do not trust anything coming from China as expect it to go faulty within the 1st year if it does nto kill you first!

 

[Dustydog]

Hello Beachball and Dusty,
The device you have highlighted is a water heater, not a space heater. It is has an open flue and therefore is not approved or safe to install in a caravan. There are a number of similar products which are designed for outdoor camping, not indoor caravanning.

The one I showed Prof was a space heater freely available on the market, not a water heater. As I said it must never be used inside a caravan but as we both know not everyone reads the instructions nor understands the dangers of carbon monoxide and flames .

 

[ProfJohnL]

Dusty,
My mistake, but the sentiment is still the same. Open flued products (With the exception of a cooker) are not approved for us in touring caravans, for the reasons you point out.

Beachball,
Quoting the makers specifications does not change the fact the product is not approved or safe to use in a caravan.

 

[Beachball]

Hi Prof
i am not disputing the fact but someone had advertised a rare Compass Citizen 340 and he put the Kampa Geyser instant hot water system in it . me i would rather have what we have in the Abbey it great