Ownership of a 4x4

[RogerL]

The scrappage scheme benefitted some brands/models much more than others - Hyundai sold huge numbers of their smaller models - 4wd vehicles will have only been chosen by those who need/want one so large stock piles and/or forward commitment to buy from the factory will still have resulted in many unsold 4wd despite scrappage.

 

[barrychas]

What I am getting so far from this topic is that 20-23 mpg seems to be the norm ,when towing. I only get 20 mpg when towing with my 2.2 Vectra and having just retired have watched my weekly mileage fall off a cliff, ..so much that I am thinking about laying the car up off road till April. Does anyone else just use their tug for the warmer months only ?. At present it seems to be the cheaper option as we still have my wifes super mini to move around with.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

I have a 04 plate kia sorento yes there nice and do the job etc but have a look at a Chrysler 300c touring what car says it will tow my Wyoming at 85 per cent and that weighs 1675 kg. it's kerb weight is 1945 so it will tow a lot. Reviews are good solo and towing. X

 

[Gafferbill]

………I expect prices for good second hand real 4x4s to rise, especially if they are locked into the lower VED band K which applies to cars that have a CO2 figure over 225g/km but were registered before 23 March 2006.
Vehicles in this category have a VED of £260
Vehicles registered before 1 March 2001 have a VED of £215.

There is a huge demand for this type of vehicle by farmers and others in certain parts of the UK for towing and winter mobility.
These vehicles are expensive to buy new and have a first years VED of £1000 and subsequent years of £460.
This I believe, will put many off buying new and so boost the second hand market.

 

[johnboy1]

Hi all, I don't very often comment about tow cars, but I felt I had to ask this question. How many of us really NEED a 4 x 4, there is a difference between need and want. We tow a 1360kg 'van, throughout the year, including winter months, off site, as part of a rally club. Using a petrol Volvo V70, 140bhp Auto, have never been stuck or required towing out (this included the period of snow and ice last December). And yes I have considered a 4 x 4, and as yet have failed to convince myself that we really need one. Regards and Happy Christmas to you all.

 

[Damian]

There are a lot of things in life which most people have, but dont necessarily "need", we live in a changing world where we have the choice of what we do buy, what we "need" and what we like.

With caravanning there are countless items which we dont actually "need" but are nice to have or make life feel more comfortable.
The choice of tow car is just one small part of all that.

 

[xtrailman]

Hi all, I don't very often comment about tow cars, but I felt I had to ask this question. How many of us really NEED a 4 x 4, there is a difference between need and want. We tow a 1360kg 'van, throughout the year, including winter months, off site, as part of a rally club. Using a petrol Volvo V70, 140bhp Auto, have never been stuck or required towing out (this included the period of snow and ice last December). And yes I have considered a 4 x 4, and as yet have failed to convince myself that we really need one. Regards and Happy Christmas to you all.

You actually don't need a car, or caravan.
I lived a lot of my life without both.

 

[Martin24]

Good point!! We don't any of us need a van so why would we need a 4x4! However if I want to tow my 1750kg twin axle to a wet and boggy CL on the North Yorkshire moors in the middle of February then the likelyhood is I will be jolly glad of a 4x4 (Just don't know which 4x4 it'll be by then!) If purchasing such a car you just need to accept that it isn't going to be a cheap to run as a rep mobile but will be cheaper to run than a supercar!! We all make a choice as to what we tow and what we tow with and that all being well should be within our individual means.

 

[JonnyRockstar]

Don't quite see why people should justify what car they own and why they "need" it.
Car's and caravan's are bought for different reasons and no one is the same - bought my first cavavan back in 2005 so as a family we could go on holiday's and as both my wife and myself were taken as kids in caravans it seemed appropriate. Didnt' need it though !!
The S-max was bought to accomodate our second child and also to tow the old Coachman 560/6. Not my personal choice of car but it did and still does the job it was bought for.

 

[ProfJohnL]

It is of course a matter of personal choice what vehicle a person wishes to own, however these days with diminishing personal disposable income, and so much uncertainty about jobs etc, increasingly many people actually look more carefully at the balance between wants and needs and what finances will allow.

The vast majority of the time caravanners do not need the capabilities, the complexity and expense of a 4x4. There are far more solo road miles than towing miles, so most could caravan perfectly satisfactorily with a larger saloon or an MPV.

The argument that we need a 4x4 for when we need to get on or off a site is often over stated and the majority of caravanners never use sites where there is any problem of access. There are some who do choose more awkward sites, but most never do.

The cost of ownership needs to be considered, and generally the bigger vehicle the more it does cost, on fuel, servicing and insurance, and depreciation.

A factor that is becoming more prevalent is the effect of the licence category changes that were introduced in 1997, We now have drivers in their thirties who may be considering moving up to a larger vehicle, and yet may not be aware of the 3500Kg outfit limit their licence places on them. A 4x4 may be desirable but impossible because of the combined MAM of outfits exceeds their limit. So the "e" extension test is another cost to consider.

 

[Surfer]

We use a 1996 4 x 4 with an average mpg of 22mpg when towing a 1600kg caravan and 30mpg when solo. It is reliable and cheap to run plus VED is low for the size of the vehicle. We could have bought a later singing and dancing 4 x4 vehicle, but chose not to although we had a 2010 Mondeo 2.0L for a short while which proved to be inadequate and unsafe for towing a 1600kg caravan. It was our choice to buy a 4 x 4 as we also live in a rural area where it is nice to have a 4 x 4 for stress free driving and I don't have to justify ownership to any tree hugging environmentalist. LOL!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Surfer,

"I don't have to justify ownership to any tree hugging environmentalist. LOL!"

Then why did you reply?

 

[otherclive]

Surfer,
your reply above is totally unwarranted, Prof John was making a perfectly valid point which neither introduced environmentalist views, nor tree-hugging. I have owned 4x4s (proper ones) and despite having strong environmental views I have no problem reconciling them with 4x4 ownership, the two are not incompatible. And before anyone tells me the XC70 is not a proper 4x4; I know but its a cracking tow car!

 

[Damian]

Hang on people!!!!
I have read Surfers reply to the topic and see nothing wrong with it.
The reply was,as I read it, aimed as a general response, not a direct attack on JohnL, but JohnL decided to highlight just one small part of the reply.

Actually , Surfer is right, no one has to justify any choice of anything to anyone else, be it a tree hugging whatever.

If it happens that JohnL is a tree hugging environmentalist, then that seems just a coinidence and if he is, he should be used to people having opposing views.

Lets keep toys in prams please and dont assume every reply is personal.

 

[DeliDave_]

also lol at the end generally indicates its a joke

 

[xtrailman]

I do find the "you don't need a 4x4 stance" quite tiring.
But its fine to have a equally heavy 2WD?
They must be some logic to the argument , but i don't see it??
Can we give it a rest
At least for xmas?

 

[Damian]

I agree with you Ray, about the tiring recurrence of the very tired 4x4 debate.
Personally I drive what I want to, I dont want, or need, anyone deciding whether the vehicle I drive or the caravan I have is to their liking, they are NOT driving it, nor using it.

A new year resolution of mine is to immediately delete ANY 4x4 topics the moment anyone mentions the environment or questioning the "need" for one.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ray,

Its not quite Christmas yet!

I think I expressed my view well enough, and I don't always agree with some peoples choice of a 4x4, when there are plenty of other vehicles that will serve their needs (not wants) perfectly well. That is an opinion and not a criticism.

I have no issue with the weight of a vehicle it needs to be as heavy as necessary to provide a good match with any trailer, though as I pointed out it can become a problem for some as those with the 1997 driving licence changes become a greater percentage of the population.

The OP was asking the general question about owning a 4X4 and part and parcel of that is running costs.

Where there is a direct 2wd equivalent of any current 4wd vehicle there is plenty of evidence the costs of ownership are lower for the 2wd version. The additional mechanics of the 4wd system adds weight and complexity. So not only purchase, but service, repairs and usually running costs are lower for the 2wd version.

There will be some 4x4 owners who make out that 4x4 ownership can be as cheap as 2wd ownership, but they are the exception and it is very likely they would also be able to run a 2wd substantially cheaper than the majority.

For some people a 4x4 is a logical choice, but for the vast majority of UK caravanners, there are plenty of other equally suitable and often better vehicles for towing their caravans and families without the undeniable extra costs of 4x4 ownership

No one should need to automatically think "I need a 4x4 to tow my caravan" they should look at the alternatives.

 

[Surfer]

Hello Surfer,

"I don't have to justify ownership to any tree hugging environmentalist. LOL!"

Then why did you reply?

Seems you have lost any sense of humour over the Xmas period as I was replying to all posts in general. Some people were smart enough to pick up on the joke part!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Some say Prof John L has had his sense of humour surgically removed and replaced with an onion.

The partial truth is I never had one

 

[DeliDave_]

data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABkAAAAUCAIAAAD3FQHqAAAAuklEQVQ4jc2UsRXEIAxDtUpW8WxeJ2swQla4MXSFAzFgfCkoTk8l+c8WCsCfiCpUoaAcW1iCcuxg7ZTtCOzbMWPdidZcM1ZNPWBRhac+fkdcjHMqr8KrGKsbM8ItO/GAGo4kCZdLwBKMrG4os1NLZ2TVckUsv2PPIvk2tTF1M5nfgJUr2jHEaTaM0ResqRMAyqdLzauVa7pHX9HqO6kIlIkS4H58krw5VpbhHzIvWXO/AmJKaSeDfm3RF8B5Mf6wPz6TAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC lol

 

[coachmanamara1]

ive had two 4+4 but we wanted something that would be cheapish to run and tow our 1450kg caravan and transport two dogs and two children we looked at other cars but the one we went for was a nissan xtrail does about 33mpg around town dont know about towing yet as only just got it im my opion the nissan xtrail is very similar to an estate car but can change beetwen 2wd and 4wd and i passed my test after 1997 and im justl within the limit to tow as my outfit but i never have done my hubby always drives when towing as he has older type of licence

 

[Martin24]

Don't quite see why people should justify what car they own and why they "need" it.
Car's and caravan's are bought for different reasons and no one is the same - bought my first cavavan back in 2005 so as a family we could go on holiday's and as both my wife and myself were taken as kids in caravans it seemed appropriate. Didnt' need it though !!
The S-max was bought to accomodate our second child and also to tow the old Coachman 560/6. Not my personal choice of car but it did and still does the job it was bought for.

snap on the model progression! had the 560/6 at launch in 2007 and changed for the 640 in 2010, Laser next year we hope!

 

[Martin24]

It is of course a matter of personal choice what vehicle a person wishes to own, however these days with diminishing personal disposable income, and so much uncertainty about jobs etc, increasingly many people actually look more carefully at the balance between wants and needs and what finances will allow.

The vast majority of the time caravanners do not need the capabilities, the complexity and expense of a 4x4. There are far more solo road miles than towing miles, so most could caravan perfectly satisfactorily with a larger saloon or an MPV.

The argument that we need a 4x4 for when we need to get on or off a site is often over stated and the majority of caravanners never use sites where there is any problem of access. There are some who do choose more awkward sites, but most never do.

The cost of ownership needs to be considered, and generally the bigger vehicle the more it does cost, on fuel, servicing and insurance, and depreciation.

A factor that is becoming more prevalent is the effect of the licence category changes that were introduced in 1997, We now have drivers in their thirties who may be considering moving up to a larger vehicle, and yet may not be aware of the 3500Kg outfit limit their licence places on them. A 4x4 may be desirable but impossible because of the combined MAM of outfits exceeds their limit. So the "e" extension test is another cost to consider.

we nearly always do go in the middle of no where and do need a 4x4 at certain times of year! We are often on our own in the winter which is even better! oh and 80% of my cars use is towing.