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Jun 20, 2005
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Hi Simon

Great to hear from Bailey's MD. It proves you are reading our posts! Well done.

My wife chose a new kitchen 5 years ago, ligty beech and black work surfaces. Our new Senator S6 has the "pear" and black top which she loves.

I have seen the S7 Pageant in the flesh and in fairness the "teak" is far better than the original pics. Could I live with it, yes but I still tend towards the "Pear".

Maybe you should carry out a market research with all the Bailey purchasers over the last thre years. Could be interesting? You never know, ebony veneer and white worktops could win!

Cheers

Alan
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Why restrict market research to those who bought in the last 3 years? Some of us who bought 7 years ago, for example, would buy another Bailey IF it was right!
 

Parksy

Moderator
Nov 12, 2009
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We finally had chance to have a look around thr S7 s on Saturday and f.w.i.w. my impressions were that the extra width is worthwhile and the new wood which is darker than in previous series wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. Herself and I can both see what is meant by those who dislike it but after being in the caravan(s) for a few minutes I no longer noticed it but that could just be a bloke thing.

We both liked the colour of the upholstery but it might be hard to keep clean for families with young children but there again, isn't everything? The turquoise highlights in the upholstery worked for us.

The only real fly in the ointment from both Herself's point of view and mine (she spotted it first - typical) is the plastic catches along the bottom of the overhead lockers.

We both wondered if the catches will stand up to a few years use, what state would they be in after five years. I don't know if they're made of that sort of plastic that goes a bit brittle after a few years.

The overall impression is that we liked the series 7.

Alan and Roger L make valid points about market research by caravan manufacturers and we see Swift, Bailey and AlKo monitoring and sometimes contributing to this and other forums.

On more than one occassion the manufacturers have stepped in with a goodwill gesture to owners in trouble although in some cases this might not have been an option that they felt was open to them so they've backed off which is their perrogative.

I like to think that in return for their participation manufacturers have instant access to a growing number of their actual and potential customers. Trends can be observed along with the habits of caravanners as to whether the majority use low or no facillities or full onsite facillities etc .Manufacturers learn about the cars that the ordinary caravanning public drive and want to own, they pick up myriad (excuse the pun if you read this Kath, lol) pieces of information not from magazine correspondents but from us.

This level of feedback and information that it's possible to obtain without waiting months for it to be filtered back from dealeships and repairers ought to be of immense value. How much would that type of mailshot or telephone survey cost even if the target group was known and reachable?

We're already a part of market research I think.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Hi Roger,

3 years was not meant to be restrictive , rather managable. The more opinions the better in my view. So , yes maybe Simon should approach as many bailey owners as possible for a view. Then I suppose it could be a full open forum. Where do you start on such an exercise? It could be very interesting.

Cheers

Alan
 
Jun 16, 2008
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Quite an eye opening series of posts - and a perfect example of *how* the UK caravan industry has managed to sell so many badly made caravans for so long.

All this fuss over the colour of the woodwork!! - and not a single query about the build quality & construction methods

No enquiries about the thickness of the aluminium used, no questions about the type of insulating foam, the way in which the panels are joined, the neatness (or otherwise) of the gas piping and plumbing.

No concerns about whether the seat lockers have a tubular metal framework, if the van has condensation boards, whether it uses vinyl-faced interior ply that hides evidence of water ingress until it's too late to repair it - and, most amazing of all, not a hint of concern about the continued use of flawed 'UK' type exterior body trims that leave the wall/roof joints completely exposed.

Oddly, when it comes to a new tow car, people will spend hours puring over models, comparing kerbweights, torque figures, bhp, nose weights - but when it comes to *the* most important item on the caravaning agenda all they seem to care about is the colour of the cupboards!

Give the makers due credit - they understand the mentality of the punters, no question about it.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Sidney

Most of us until our later years in life have bought second hand. When you have a young family a caravan becomes a major expenditure and I can assure you colour of the wood is not particularly important. More does the caravan suit our young family needs and is it water tight etc. As time goes on and all those hard earned pennies are available for one of the first new caravans of your life then everything , including wood colour , becomes an important criterion.

If you look back at a lot of the previous postings you will see the wood colour aspect has only really reared its head since Bailey went for the "teak" look on the Pageant S7. The real core values are well logged on this forum.

Cheers

Alan
 
Jun 16, 2008
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I don't quite see what increasing age has to do with it - unless you're suggesting that the UK manufacturers take advantage of senility? ;) (perhaps, to some extent they do)

My point was that, out of all the replies to the thread, not one was concerned with the important issue of build quality, and that lack of concern is (presumably) the reason why the UK caravan industry has got away with producing sub standard caravans for so many years - "if the people want nicer curtains, why, give 'em nicer curtains - it will stop 'em thinking about the fact that the wretched caravan will be damp within 30 months"

People differ - but I'd rather have an austere van that was well made than a glitzy gin palace made out of tissue paper and sealed with chewing gum.

That's why I like German vans - plain, solid, and long lasting (generally)
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Sidney

"..increasing age has to do with it". Everything , unless you are blue blood born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

I started caravanning in 1978 and with two very young children could not even think of 3rd hand , never mind new. As I progressed in my career and my kids grew up I have a little more income and savings to spend on our favourite hobby , caravanning. yes I can buy new now. No, the wood colour is not a prime mover. Construction, guarantee, and more importantly, the integrity of the supplying dealer is paramount.

Tissue paper and chewing gum ae most definitely not present on my Senator Wyoming. Do you really think the UK major manufacturers would give a 6 year water ingress guarantee if their caravans were constructed as you suggest. I think not.

The last 3 weeks spent away I can say I saw hardly any German caravans. Did see 3 Hobbys. The rest were a cocktail of all ages predominantly Swift Group, Elldis and Bailey plus a few Coachmans.

They can't all be wrong.

Cheers

Alan
 
Jun 16, 2008
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Sidney

"..increasing age has to do with it". Everything , unless you are blue blood born with a silver spoon in his mouth.⇦br/>

I hope you're not going to start discriminating against me, just because I'm better than you! ;)

--------------------

If that's true you are the happy owner of a German van - always streets ahead of UK vans in every quality & reliability survey.

---------------------

Tissue paper and chewing gum ae most definitely not present on my Senator Wyoming.⇦br/>

Well, I looked at the Baileys - and was shocked at their cheap construction - the scrappy construction 'behind the scenes' is common to most UK vans, and is (or should be) a warning to prospective buyers of what lies beyond the eye candy.

I recently spoke to a former LMC dealer (who had no reason to lie as they had recently stopped selling caravans) and they said that in the last 15 years they had one (1) leakage problem - and that was fairly minor.

OK, the turnover of LMC's in that time was small compared to sales of Swibailex vans - but, even so, one?

------------------

⇨Do you really think the UK major manufacturers would give a 6 year water ingress guarantee if their caravans were constructed as you suggest. I think not.⇦br/>

I think so - and one has only to read the anguished postings here relating to damp in two year old vans to see that the UK damp warranty is no indication of manufacturers confidence in their products ;)

Besides - they could 20 year warranties at this late stage in the game, and they know it! - they are not going to be around in 5 years, so why not offer their customers the moon on a stick as well?

------------

The last 3 weeks spent away I can say I saw hardly any German caravans. Did see 3 Hobbys. The rest were a cocktail of all ages predominantly Swift Group, Elldis and Bailey plus a few Coachmans

Agreed - but mass popularity is no indication of quality! - the tabloid press are self evident proof of that.

No-one ever thinks they are wrong to buy a UK van - until damp is discovered around year 2 or 3. (sometimes, even faster than that!)

Don't underestimate the vested interests (including the caravan 'press) busily at work to keep you 'buying British' They've made an awful lot of money out of you lot - and they certainly don't want you to buy vans that last ten years (ten months is more the sort of ownership cycle *they* have in mind!)
 
Jun 16, 2008
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Sidney

"..increasing age has to do with it". Everything , unless you are blue blood born with a silver spoon in his mouth.⇦br/>

I hope you're not going to start discriminating against me, just because I'm better than you! ;)

--------------------

If that's true you are the happy owner of a German van - always streets ahead of UK vans in every quality & reliability survey.

---------------------

Tissue paper and chewing gum ae most definitely not present on my Senator Wyoming.⇦br/>

Well, I looked at the Baileys - and was shocked at their cheap construction - the scrappy construction 'behind the scenes' is common to most UK vans, and is (or should be) a warning to prospective buyers of what lies beyond the eye candy.

I recently spoke to a former LMC dealer (who had no reason to lie as they had recently stopped selling caravans) and they said that in the last 15 years they had one (1) leakage problem - and that was fairly minor.

OK, the turnover of LMC's in that time was small compared to sales of Swibailex vans - but, even so, one?

------------------

⇨Do you really think the UK major manufacturers would give a 6 year water ingress guarantee if their caravans were constructed as you suggest. I think not.⇦br/>

I think so - and one has only to read the anguished postings here relating to damp in two year old vans to see that the UK damp warranty is no indication of manufacturers confidence in their products ;)

Besides - they could 20 year warranties at this late stage in the game, and they know it! - they are not going to be around in 5 years, so why not offer their customers the moon on a stick as well?

------------

The last 3 weeks spent away I can say I saw hardly any German caravans. Did see 3 Hobbys. The rest were a cocktail of all ages predominantly Swift Group, Elldis and Bailey plus a few Coachmans

Agreed - but mass popularity is no indication of quality! - the tabloid press are self evident proof of that.

No-one ever thinks they are wrong to buy a UK van - until damp is discovered around year 2 or 3. (sometimes, even faster than that!)

Don't underestimate the vested interests (including the caravan 'press) busily at work to keep you 'buying British' They've made an awful lot of money out of you lot - and they certainly don't want you to buy vans that last ten years (ten months is more the sort of ownership cycle *they* have in mind!)
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Ah well Sidney,

Everyone to their own. I'm happy with my British built caravan but have no doubt the German vans are as good as you say.

Cheers

Alan
 
Jun 16, 2008
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Ah well Sidney,

Everyone to their own. I'm happy with my British built caravan but have no doubt the German vans are as good as you say.

Cheers⇦br/>

Hi again, Alan

Sadly, German vans are not quite as good as they used to be - doubtless a combination of cost cutting and the increased use of migrant labour.

However, the fall-off in quality appears to be mainly reflected in the interior fit 'n' finish, their almost legendary resistance to water ingress is not really down to skill, rather to the use of better mastic and the different profile of the aluminium sealing strips (they cover the joints, while UK-type trims leave the joints exposed)

As long as they build them using that tried and tested method they should continue to hugely out-perform UK vans in the water ingress department (and they honestly do)

I *can* see the attraction of a UK van - they are, without doubt, much more stylish than German vans - head & shoulders above them in the looks department, no argument.

German vans certainly look a little bit old fashioned and the interiors can be a matter of taste (I'm very dour and puritanical, so they suit me ;)

Their emphasis has always been on function, rather than form, and that (to me) is the most important consideration. Sure, it's nice to have a stylish van - but I don't see the point of all that style when the basic construction is flawed.

Interestingly, a number of 'standard' German features, such as sock absorbers, wider width, loose lay carpets, better door locks, that sort of thing, are now being implemented by some UK manufacturers - why oh, why, oh why, oh why don't they seal their vans properly - using the aluminium profile that common sense should dictate is best for the purpose?

That's a rhetorical question ;) - I've never had an answer to that one, and probably never will.

I know that it used to be claimed that UK vans were not as sturdily built because of the need to keep weights down. That argument must surely have gone out of the window as many UK vans are now as heavy (or even heavier) than their German equivalents thanks to the super abundance of knick-knacks that get stuffed into them year by year - knick-knacks that undoubtedly sell UK vans to punters, but which are (imo) rather wasted when installed into a caravan that is going to leak as surely as the sun is going to rise in the morning.

But they do sell - and will continue to sell as long as people value fripperies more than solid construction.

There is also no doubt in my mind that German vans are still regarded with suspicion by UK buyers - who seem to have the attitude displayed to imported cars in the 1960's & 70's, 'Furrin Rubbish', somehow not quite 'right' for Englishmen ;)

which is ironic when one considers that nearly all the advances in caravan comforts and conveniences have come courtesy of 'them furriners' - people love their Alko chassis', they couldn't do without their Truma water heaters, or their Winterhoff hitches, but they want 'em installed in a 'real' British van!

I'm somewhat reminded of the first Asian immigrants in the 60's. They were certainly exotic ;), and there was much derision poured on their culinary endeavours - fragrant spices and the delicious smell of *authentic* curries that wafted from the Birmingham kitchens of these new arrivals were greeted with scorn by local residents, who dismissed their meals as more 'furrin muck' - while tucking into their own plates of soggy greasy chips accompanied by sausages oozing saturated fat by the quart!

Not everything 'furrin' is bad! - sometimes (heaven forfend!) it#s even better than John Bull's home grown alternative ;)
 
Jun 3, 2008
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As much as we like the layout and look of the S7 Pageant and are getting closer to committing, I tend to agree that there are certain aspects of the build quality that worries us. I know that these vans are mass produced but certain things should be done better. A lot of the problems we have noticed on a closer inspection are cosmetic - sealant not properly smoothed off, doors not adjusted properly (so they rattle), catches screwed in at odd angles, flooring under seats not cut off properly. Some problems, however, worry us more - for example, holes for pipes in the floor roughly cut and not sealed (why???). When you are spending the best part of
 
May 4, 2005
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If anyone is interested our Pageant launch event starts tomorrow with refreshments ,BBQ(weather permitting) on Saturday(8.30-3.30) and Sunday (11.00-3.00)

Would be good to meet some of you.

GT Towing

Great North Road,

Welham Green,

Hatfield,

Hertfordshire,

AL9 5SD

Tel: 01707 262526
 
Jun 16, 2008
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Am I allowed to come and gobble your food, while holding forth on the deficiencies of Bailey caravans?

""Look at those seals" (bite of hot dog) "See how poorly made they are! - pass the mustard, please"
 
May 4, 2005
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Best not come Sidney as we only have British bangers for the BBQ.I think you would only be happy with a German sausage.

Brian ;O)
 
Jun 16, 2008
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Best not come Sidney as we only have British bangers for the BBQ.I think you would only be happy with a German sausage.

Brian ;O)
I think I'll give your open day a miss - if I arrived and started waving my famiily-size Bratwurst at your customers, it might lead to all sorts of unpleasantness.

Hope it goes well.
 

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