PDI's your experiences please

Mar 14, 2005
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In another thread, a caravan dealer has been discussing the some of the difficulties facing the retail caravan industry.

One of the significant issues revolves around the condition of caravans when they arrive from the manufacturer. In many cases the dealer is required to work on the caravan to effectively finish the job the manufacturer has failed to do.

What is appalling is that in many cases this work is carried out as a PDI or Pre Delivery Inspection for which the customer is charged. This begs the question, why has a customer paid for a caravan, and is then asked to pay more to have it finished?

Clearly if corrective or finishing work is required on a caravan that should be charged back to the manufacturer, not the customer.

When you buy a television from a retailer do you have a PDI? - No

What are your experiences with PDI's?

Have you been charged extra for it?

Did you get a complete breakdown of what was carried out as part of the procedure?

Did you question any of the work and their charges?

Do you think you should have to pay it?

Was a PDI used as a reason for late handover?
 
Jun 20, 2005
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John L

We need to understand exactly what a PDI involves. I suspect it is not the same for every manufacturer nor dealer.

Who decides what the PDI involves?

My personal view is that I expect my dealer to do a PDI for nil charge and ensure the caravan is in 100% good order. I've paid a lot of money so surely I am entitled to good quality with everything working properly.

My own experiences with Chipping Sodbury caravans confirms they do an excellent first class PDI. However things do go wrong post collection. We always put our caravans through their paces and it is not unusual to find snagging faults, nothing major in my case . All these snags have been fixed free of charge entirely to my satisfaction.

Surely the manufacturers should do a lot better?

I had trouble with the oven going out. Easily fixed. This is a problem which has been around for the last 18 months so you would have thought the oven manufacturer would wake up and fix the problem at source!

Please will PC Mag do a comprehensive article on QA / QC at the manufacturers. It is here all the problems start and cause Caravan Oracle to have raised blood pressure.

Finally why should anyone have to pay for a PDI on any new or used caravan?

Cheers

Dustydog
 
Jan 14, 2009
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Hi,

Having just collected a New Van - the dealer provided me with signed off copies of the PDI - and No there should be no charge for a PDI.

PDI in the car trade stands for Pre Delivery Inspection, and is carried out by the dealer and charged to the manufacturer.

Must admit I found two faults on collection, a missing screw cap, and one rear light full of water - the dealers service dept corrected both whilst I was completing the paperwork with the sales dept.

I can't imagine a dealer charging the customer for a PDI - surely no one would pay - would they?

Cheers

Jon
 
Feb 28, 2009
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Hi,

Having just collected a New Van - the dealer provided me with signed off copies of the PDI - and No there should be no charge for a PDI.

PDI in the car trade stands for Pre Delivery Inspection, and is carried out by the dealer and charged to the manufacturer.

Must admit I found two faults on collection, a missing screw cap, and one rear light full of water - the dealers service dept corrected both whilst I was completing the paperwork with the sales dept.

I can't imagine a dealer charging the customer for a PDI - surely no one would pay - would they?

Cheers

Jon
Not much of a pdi then....'rear light full of water'
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello James,

Your thread is does not appear on the first page of any of the current technical threads so I have not read it.

It is some time since I was involved in purchasing a new caravan, so perhaps the industry has at last realised the injustice of charging for a PDI.

On at least three invoices I saw, the PDI was an element and a charge set against it.

However my questions still stand, as on a number of occasions on this forum the issue of PDI's has come up, and I would like to know what peoples and even dealers experiences are.
 
Feb 28, 2009
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Hello James,

Your thread is does not appear on the first page of any of the current technical threads so I have not read it.

It is some time since I was involved in purchasing a new caravan, so perhaps the industry has at last realised the injustice of charging for a PDI.

On at least three invoices I saw, the PDI was an element and a charge set against it.

However my questions still stand, as on a number of occasions on this forum the issue of PDI's has come up, and I would like to know what peoples and even dealers experiences are.
John... its just going off page 2 so may be on page 3 by now. Jim
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Jim's thread has re-emerged, and assuming there has been no exaggeration it does make for a sorry tale. http://www.practicalcaravan.com/newforums/fm_messages.asp?FO=5&FM=441517

A number of people have alluded to the Quality Assurance or Quality Control systems at both the dealer and the manufacturer even quoting ISO 9000. Lutz (in Jim's thread) is absolutely right when he says that ISO900 does not ensure the quality of a product, all it does is to state that the company has a management system that conforms to the required elements of the ISO 9000 business management model.

ISO 9000 influences all aspects of management, including:- human resources, market research, design & development, customer orders/contracts, sales & marketing, procurement, materials handling, production, despatch/delivery, accounts and customer satisfaction. It does not only apply to businesses, but it can be used by any organisation.

Whilst ISO9000 has no direct influence on the quality of products (or services) offered by a company, by adopting and conforming to the ethos enshrined in the model, the principals of a company should look at all types of systematic failures and by correcting the underlying processes, it should carry forward and indirectly encourage improvements into its services and products.

This does not supersede conventional product development but it should make the development systems more robust, accountable and responsive to customer issues. It should also reduce the problems of a company repeating design mistakes. (Caravan outer panel joints that leak?)

The underlying ethos of ISO 9000 is "Continual Improvement", and companies can loose their accreditation to the model if they fail to demonstrate this. For the uninitiated this does not mean change for the sake of change, but the managed review of all processes, and if an improvement seems possible, to consider it carefully, its consequences, and how it can be measured and shown to be effective.

World class companies that employ QA systems like ISO9000, put a lot of effort into the design of a product, and the design of the production process. Rather like a cake, if you select the correct recipe, the right ingredients, and control the method of mixing and cooking, the results are a good cake. But if you change any one of the main elements, (recipe, ingredients, mixing or cooking) the results are unpredictable. You may be lucky and get some good ones but you will certainly get some poor ones.

With a cake it is impractical to test each one as it comes from the oven as it will damage the goods, so either sample test one from each batch, or if the confidence in the processes is high so that human errors are eliminated, the quality is then defined by monitoring and controlling the processes this is Quality Assurance.

On the face of it it might seem silly to compare a caravan to a cake, but the underlying processes are the same, Design = recipe, materials procurement = Ingredients, production = mixing & cooking.

The fact that some caravans reach customers with non-conformances proves that one or more elements from the design through to sale processes are not properly controlled by the manufactures.

It must be recognised that as the number of different parts or production processes that goes into a product increases, there is an increasing risk that a non-conformance will occur, Caravans parts/processes count falls between a cake and a small car but compare the fault rates of cakes, caravans and cars, and caravans are the poor relations.

A properly resourced product manufactured within an effective QA structure should not need a PDI at a dealers. Manufacturing faults should be avoided within the production facility by good process control, or where that is difficult then an interstage inspection process that prevents a non conforming sub assembly or product from progressing to the next stage without being rectified.

Like it or not the caravan manufacturers are the architects of many of own their problems. And I am certain that they could do a lot more to reduce the severity and inconvenience and number of non conformances. These and customer complaints are expensive to resolve compared to the cost of avoiding the problem in the first place. This does not necessarily mean working harder but smarter - being more effective.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Jim's thread has re-emerged, and assuming there has been no exaggeration it does make for a sorry tale. http://www.practicalcaravan.com/newforums/fm_messages.asp?FO=5&FM=441517

A number of people have alluded to the Quality Assurance or Quality Control systems at both the dealer and the manufacturer even quoting ISO 9000. Lutz (in Jim's thread) is absolutely right when he says that ISO900 does not ensure the quality of a product, all it does is to state that the company has a management system that conforms to the required elements of the ISO 9000 business management model.

ISO 9000 influences all aspects of management, including:- human resources, market research, design & development, customer orders/contracts, sales & marketing, procurement, materials handling, production, despatch/delivery, accounts and customer satisfaction. It does not only apply to businesses, but it can be used by any organisation.

Whilst ISO9000 has no direct influence on the quality of products (or services) offered by a company, by adopting and conforming to the ethos enshrined in the model, the principals of a company should look at all types of systematic failures and by correcting the underlying processes, it should carry forward and indirectly encourage improvements into its services and products.

This does not supersede conventional product development but it should make the development systems more robust, accountable and responsive to customer issues. It should also reduce the problems of a company repeating design mistakes. (Caravan outer panel joints that leak?)

The underlying ethos of ISO 9000 is "Continual Improvement", and companies can loose their accreditation to the model if they fail to demonstrate this. For the uninitiated this does not mean change for the sake of change, but the managed review of all processes, and if an improvement seems possible, to consider it carefully, its consequences, and how it can be measured and shown to be effective.

World class companies that employ QA systems like ISO9000, put a lot of effort into the design of a product, and the design of the production process. Rather like a cake, if you select the correct recipe, the right ingredients, and control the method of mixing and cooking, the results are a good cake. But if you change any one of the main elements, (recipe, ingredients, mixing or cooking) the results are unpredictable. You may be lucky and get some good ones but you will certainly get some poor ones.

With a cake it is impractical to test each one as it comes from the oven as it will damage the goods, so either sample test one from each batch, or if the confidence in the processes is high so that human errors are eliminated, the quality is then defined by monitoring and controlling the processes this is Quality Assurance.

On the face of it it might seem silly to compare a caravan to a cake, but the underlying processes are the same, Design = recipe, materials procurement = Ingredients, production = mixing & cooking.

The fact that some caravans reach customers with non-conformances proves that one or more elements from the design through to sale processes are not properly controlled by the manufactures.

It must be recognised that as the number of different parts or production processes that goes into a product increases, there is an increasing risk that a non-conformance will occur, Caravans parts/processes count falls between a cake and a small car but compare the fault rates of cakes, caravans and cars, and caravans are the poor relations.

A properly resourced product manufactured within an effective QA structure should not need a PDI at a dealers. Manufacturing faults should be avoided within the production facility by good process control, or where that is difficult then an interstage inspection process that prevents a non conforming sub assembly or product from progressing to the next stage without being rectified.

Like it or not the caravan manufacturers are the architects of many of own their problems. And I am certain that they could do a lot more to reduce the severity and inconvenience and number of non conformances. These and customer complaints are expensive to resolve compared to the cost of avoiding the problem in the first place. This does not necessarily mean working harder but smarter - being more effective.
Thank goodness they don't make aeroplanes.

Cheers

Dustdyog
 
Jul 25, 2007
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When I collected my new Bailey Ranger series 5 510/4 I was given a sheet showing what had been checked. I was not charged specifically for this check and what I paid for the caravan was
 
Nov 26, 2007
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Hi all...i think you have the wrong idea..following many years in the motortrade, i think the interpretation of the term pdi is not pre delivery inspection but 'possible defects ignored'.

On a serious note, i was told by my local dealer who sell a top name van that it is cheaper for the manufacturer to pay the dealer to put things right rather than hold up the ex works delivery process and pay their own engineers to fix problems.

My new van had a lot of niggly problems and one major one, but all is now well thanks to the dealer. I am sure the dealers dont mind as they are geting paid for extra work

rgds tony
 
Jan 6, 2008
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The caravan industry along with it dealer network is like the Bankng industry NEEDS TO CLEAN UP ITS ACT. In the days of plenty

people would just pay and nt think about it to much. Now we are in very hard times people notice when there being ripped off.
 
Jan 14, 2009
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Have to agree with a couple of points - yes it probably is cheaper for the manufacturer to pay the dealer to put right minor faults, that is why there is a PDI.

With regards to cost of Delivery & PDI being added to the cost of a van, that is purely the way the industry chooses to show it - if it was an all inclusive price you would never know it existed!

Afterall it is how much cash you part with that counts - my new Van cost me
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Tony,

'Its cheaper to get the dealer to do the PDI rather than hold up the production line' Yes I agree that it would cost the manufacture more in lost output if they held up the production line, But it is cheaper all round if the problem is avoided by fool proofing the production process that causes it.

It is by far more cost effective to design production processes that are properly controlled so the assembly coming out is fault free rather than doing any sort of remedial repairs.

A company that I did some work for used to have a recurring problem with a plastic moulding. The cost of the part was about
 

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