Phones & Driving

[Gabsgrandad]

Towed back from York on Friday am. 57miles. Mixture of roads A19, M62, M18, M180. during that journey 'we' became aware of how many drivers were on the phone, lots more than we have noticed before, white van man being the worst, - hardly saw a 'tranny' not on the phone. (and that's without hands free) What is it with folks? Despite all the recent publicity and 'killings' attributed to phones why are folks immune to it. Perhaps the offence should be classed as dangerous driving and an automatic ban. -- Why not?

 

[Dustydog]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/jailed-lorry-driver-tomasz-kroker-who-killed-woman-and-three-children-while-using-his-phone-a3383086.html
10 Years is not enough imo.
I'm with you 100% Gabs. No excuses.

 

[otherclive]

Towed back from York on Friday am. 57miles. Mixture of roads A19, M62, M18, M180. during that journey 'we' became aware of how many drivers were on the phone, lots more than we have noticed before, white van man being the worst, - hardly saw a 'tranny' not on the phone. (and that's without hands free) What is it with folks? Despite all the recent publicity and 'killings' attributed to phones why are folks immune to it. Perhaps the offence should be classed as dangerous driving and an automatic ban. -- Why not?

There are Government proposals to increase the penalty for causing death by dangerous driving to Life. But its very rare that you see anyone sentenced to the existing maximum which is 14 years. Only recently another HGV driver got 6 years for running into the back of a Mondeo killing both the men. The truck driver had been Facebooking at the time! He will be out in 3 years. If using mobile devices is now as anti social as drink driving then anyone caught should loose the licence for 12 months and resit their test.

My sons partner was involved in a fatal accident on the M4 near Port Talbot last week were a young mother was killed, and her 2 year old son badly injured. My sons partner was overtaking in lane 2 and pulled in to let a BMW pass. Then pulled back out again and saw brakes lights ahead, but the BMW hit the back of an Audi. My sons partner moved into lane 1 and then onto the hard shoulder and was not injured although her car was damaged by flying debris. Immediately after the accident the police took the BMW drivers phone off of him. What caused him to hit the Audi is still being investigated but he has been charged with dangerous driving.

The question also raises the problem of the proliferation of large touch screens in modern cars. One of the reasons I chose my particular Subaru model was that its controls were nice large round dials and push buttons, just like Subarus 10 years ago, whereas the next model up had touch screen. A recent advert for a Vauxhall said nothing about it as a car, but was totally about its connectivity. So it is not just mobile devices that are the problem. Just needing to reset the temperature can require the driver to look away from the road, there is no tactility on a touchscreen. Some cars are now moving towards gesture or voice recognition so that may improve the situation for control functions but will not stop the loss of attention/concentration associated with a phone call or Facebook. Perhaps like auto locking the car prevents external connectivity except for emergency functions above 10mph, or better stilll roll-on autonomous driving!

 

[Mogwyth]

Perhaps like auto locking the car prevents external connectivity except for emergency functions above 10mph, or better stilll roll-on autonomous driving!

No it just needs the law enforcing, I don't need my car telling me I cant use my phone I know not to use it and I don't even though I have full handsfree, I don't see the need to while I am driving, except for the odd voice activated text using Siri on the Iphone to let my my wife know my eta if I have been delayed.

Its the same as the lane hogging law, no point in introducing it if you don't enforce it and unless you enforce a law with any regularity it will be flouted, to my mind land hogging seems to have got worse, with cars even hogging lane 3, had two yesterday 60mph in lane 3 with lane 2 empty!

And if they introduce autonomous driving, I'll sell the car and get a horse and cart!

 

[saint-spoon]

about five years ago I used to regular drive from Rosyth in Scotland down to Portsmouth for a weekend at home and back again Sunday night. the topic of conversation in the car invariably turned to folk on various electronic devices whilst driving. For some reason the area south of Birmingham seemed to be the worst with folks balancing their tablets on their steering wheels or reading work reports whilst driving.
A friend of mine's Husband was killed by a driver on her phone.
I agree that it should be a year's ban straight away for the first offence, enforce and punish as a deterrent.

 

[otherclive]

Perhaps like auto locking the car prevents external connectivity except for emergency functions above 10mph, or better stilll roll-on autonomous driving!

No it just needs the law enforcing, I don't need my car telling me I cant use my phone I know not to use it and I don't even though I have full handsfree, I don't see the need to while I am driving, except for the odd voice activated text using Siri on the Iphone to let my my wife know my eta if I have been delayed.

Its the same as the lane hogging law, no point in introducing it if you don't enforce it and unless you enforce a law with any regularity it will be flouted, to my mind land hogging seems to have got worse, with cars even hogging lane 3, had two yesterday 60mph in lane 3 with lane 2 empty!

And if they introduce autonomous driving, I'll sell the car and get a horse and cart!

Firstly my comments re autonomous cars and auto de-connectivty were slightly tongue in cheek, but they are coming. I understand that the big announcement by Baileys this week is to brief dealers on the new Alutech Vardo.

On enforcement I totally agree but the facts are that there aren't enough traffic officers available. Just look at the case recently where an aged driver went the wrong way through the Midlands motorway system, and eventually
had a head on fatal collision in Leicestershire. That night there were no response cars available anywhere on the Leicestershire motorway network. unlike drink/drugs driving where a driver can be stopped and tested catching someone with a phone isn't quite as easy. The police car has to have clear visibility of an offence being committed. One aspect that can act as deterrent is the negative social aspects of using phone. If its considered as dangerous as drink/drug driving make the sentence the same. IE mandatory 12 months ban. The forthcoming £200 fine and 6 points isn't tough enough. Companies can also exert pressure on their employees. Two companies that I worked for supplied mobile phones and integrated hands free kits into the cars, but on no account were they to be used except for an emergency call. And their definition of emergency was very clear. Use of the phone in the car in other circumstances would be a dismissal offence. British Gas must have a similar policy as one employee caught in a recent police purge said on tv " That's my job gone"

The younger generation uses phones extensively as communication devices, but rarely use the talk function. Some don't understand that using Facebook or other social media comes under the same offence. A case in Wiltshire saw a young driver turn his car over at 30mph and denied using his phone, telling the Police that he'd only been on Facebook!

 

[Raywood]

As someone who has investigated accidents I have no doubt that using a mobile hands free or not is dangerous. The simple act of trying to hold a conversation with someone miles away is too great a distraction for drivers on busy roads and dialing up is worse as it means your eyes are off the road. The driver recently prosecuted for death by dangerous driving is not alone as I came across a similar one that did not get the same publicity when he realising he was going to be late for his booked in time for arriving decided to ring and change the time. He failed to notice traffic ahead of him was stopped and ran into the back of a line of traffic killing an occupant of the car ahead.
Possibly the fact the most cases are lorries does mask the fact you could quite easily do the same with a car. essentially by making a phone call when driving you are putting others and yourself needlessly at risk of death or injury and risking your own liberty. Texting or other use of phones or tablets is even worse.
Personally I feel using a phone when driving has to be moved form the general feeling of a minor point to akin to drink driving and I would be happy for a mandatory ban for those caught.

 

[otherclive]

As you say its been proven that talking on phone even with hands free whilst driving uses a different part of the brain to talking to a passenger. And that the drivers response time is adversely affected. Also texting has a similar effect exacerbated by the need/temptation to look at the screen which affects the drivers focal response from long distance to shorter distance and back.

I carry a mobile in the car but haven't bothered to link it to the cars system as the mobile is always on Flight mode. I get no incoming calls/texts but can respond quickly to an emergency if required.

 

[emmerson]

This morning, in thick fog, I met a dark grey car with no lights overtaking another. This put the oncoming car 50% into my lane. I passed close enough to the driver's window to see that he was on the phone.
But as we probably see a police car up here about every change of the moon,and only if that occurs on a Tuesday, there is no chance of him being caught.
BTW, 50yards up the road, there was a fatal accident, with exactly the same cause. Fortunately, the fatality was the offending driver.

 

[Gabsgrandad]

It’s amazing really that no one on this forum is one of these phone users! -- There must be at least one, why don’t you come on and justify your use of the phone when driving? - You know you want to, surely you’re not afraid/ashamed to admit to it are you? (Don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone admitting to doing it, unless they’re caught, then of course most try and deny it)

 

[emmerson]

Sorry Gabs,not me. Nor do I drive if I've had a drink.
If the phone rings when I'm on my own, it just keeps ringing.
If Herself is with me, I might just pass it to her, but not always.
But now that phone useage has been brought into the limelight, I do tend to notice it more.

 

[Mel]

Nor me. In fact the kids moan at me for never answering mine when not driving.
As for alcohol, I go with the zero alcohol if driving plan: not the "in the legal limit" thing.
The whole idea of how easy it is to kill or injure someone even when you doing your very best driving terrifies me.
Mel

 

[Parksy]

It’s amazing really that no one on this forum is one of these phone users! -- There must be at least one, why don’t you come on and justify your use of the phone when driving? - You know you want to, surely you’re not afraid/ashamed to admit to it are you? (Don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone admitting to doing it, unless they’re caught, then of course most try and deny it)

And that's where this line of enquiry will stop.
Practical Caravan forum are not a law enforcement agency and as a forum moderator I'm not about to allow anyone to set themselves up for public condemnation in some kind of holier than though internet witch hunt.
Using a hand held mobile phone whilst driving is illegal, we all know that to be a fact.
Using a hands free phone has not been addressed at this point, feel free to discuss it but I've got better things to do than to sit at my computer trying to resolve forum argument and ill feeling about an issue that should be dealt with by the police. If at any point mobile phone users decide to publicly 'confess' I will immediately remove the 'confession' to avoid the possibility of arguments.

 

[ProfJohnL]

A few years ago I was following a car that left the road and missed some primary school children by inches. The driver was using a phone.

Exactly the same issue arises with:
Speeding,
and as already been mentioned alcohol and drugs,
I would add:-
Not using seatbelts,
Incorrect lane usage especially on motorways and islands
Failure to indicate change of direction when changing lanes or leaving islands.
Failure to make reasonable progress (i.e. 24mph on 50mph limit with no traffic ahead)
Undertaking
Tailgating
Not using the hand brake when stationary and dazzling drivers behind with high level brake lights.
Failing to stop behind the line at junctions or creeping over, often invading the area for cyclists.
Jumping lights on Amber and Red.
Not dipping and Ultra bright and unaligned headlamps
Blue tinged lights that can be confused with emergency vehicles.
Parking on zig zags at crossings and outside schools.
Parking partly on pavements ( the vehicle still blocks the road!)
Pulling out without giving reasonable clearance to moving traffic
Debaffled exhausts
Incorrect number plate configurations
The use of ICE to deafen the occupants of cars and houses nearby with enough bass to test the strength of foundations,
Able bodied using disabled spaces
Cyclists/pedestrians in dark clothing and no lights at night.

Oh and worst of all wearing baseball caps the wrong way round! hmy:

Seriously these are all common issues I see on a very regular basis around our area.

 

[KeefySher]

A few years ago I was following a car that left the road and missed some primary school children by inches. The driver was using a phone.

Exactly the same issue arises with:
Speeding,
and as already been mentioned alcohol and drugs,
I would add:-
Not using seatbelts,
Incorrect lane usage especially on motorways and islands
Failure to indicate change of direction when changing lanes or leaving islands.
Failure to make reasonable progress (i.e. 24mph on 50mph limit with no traffic ahead)
Undertaking
Tailgating
Not using the hand brake when stationary and dazzling drivers behind with high level brake lights.
Failing to stop behind the line at junctions or creeping over, often invading the area for cyclists.
Jumping lights on Amber and Red.
Not dipping and Ultra bright and unaligned headlamps
Blue tinged lights that can be confused with emergency vehicles.
Parking on zig zags at crossings and outside schools.
Parking partly on pavements ( the vehicle still blocks the road!)
Pulling out without giving reasonable clearance to moving traffic
Debaffled exhausts
Incorrect number plate configurations
The use of ICE to deafen the occupants of cars and houses nearby with enough bass to test the strength of foundations,
Able bodied using disabled spaces
Cyclists/pedestrians in dark clothing and no lights at night.

Oh and worst of all wearing baseball caps the wrong way round! hmy:

Seriously these are all common issues I see on a very regular basis around our area.

Have you considered moving? or not wearing your cap whilst driving (a bit of brevity).

 

[otherclive]

Re Parky's post: thank you. On the use of hands free whilst its not illegal the evidence is quite clear in that holding a conversation using hands free connection has a detrimental effect on the drivers ability.

 

[Parksy]

Re Parky's post: thank you. On the use of hands free whilst its not illegal the evidence is quite clear in that holding a conversation using hands free connection has a detrimental effect on the drivers ability.

I'd have to agree with you on that Clive, but smoking or eating whilst driving are also considered to be dangerous, and I've often been behind drivers who hold lengthy animated conversations with passengers inside their car, often turning to look at their passenger and driving erratically as they do so.
The obvious solution would be the re-instatement of the number of traffic police on the roads rather than governments trying to implement laws 'on the cheap' using static cameras which can convict speeding motorists and insurance / road fund licence evaders but not drink drivers and those who regularly drive without due care and attention for various reasons.

 

[chrisbee1]

.

Oh and worst of all wearing baseball caps the wrong way round! hmy:

.

I've been after one of those caps with the peak on the back for a long time but all the baseball ones I've seen in shops have the peak at the front. Anyone know where I can get one? :blink:

 

[Hutch]

Whilst using hand a held telephone whilst driving is illegle, the use of CB radios is not, !!!, I have just looked it up and its all to do with the frequencys.
I suppose I am the only person on here that answers my totaly hand free telephone, the out going call is set to 999 with just need a touch of the steering wheel switch, and use the voice activated system to change the radio and music stystem. But leave the Sat Nav until I am stationary, way too dangerous.

 

[emmerson]

In the same shop as you can buy cups with the handle on the left!

 

[Dustydog]

 

[Gabsgrandad]

And here's me thinking it was their heads that were on the wrong way round, 'cos I've looked for years for one of these caps with the peak at the back and been unable to find one!

 

[Raywood]

Re Parky's post: thank you. On the use of hands free whilst its not illegal the evidence is quite clear in that holding a conversation using hands free connection has a detrimental effect on the drivers ability.

You are right as I nearly found out the hard way. All our company cars had hands free sets as it was thought to be safe at that time. On one occasion I was on the Edinburgh by pass approaching a roundabout when the phone rang and in trying to talk and negotiate the roundabout I could easily have run off the road. After that I stopped driving and talking but many others do not. Some time after that all hands free sets were removed from the cars and taking a phone call when driving became a disciplinary offence.

 

[KeefySher]

Re Parky's post: thank you. On the use of hands free whilst its not illegal the evidence is quite clear in that holding a conversation using hands free connection has a detrimental effect on the drivers ability.

You are right as I nearly found out the hard way. All our company cars had hands free sets as it was thought to be safe at that time. On one occasion I was on the Edinburgh by pass approaching a roundabout when the phone rang and in trying to talk and negotiate the roundabout I could easily have run off the road. After that I stopped driving and talking but many others do not. Some time after that all hands free sets were removed from the cars and taking a phone call when driving became a disciplinary offence.

Which was a great way to ignore your boss when he called and when eventually you got to speak you'd explain you were driving!!!

I was working for a client where they provided the phone and had the rule about not calls whilst driving. Would charge them lunch, coffees etc for pulling over at a suitable place to take conference calls

 

[pitpony]

Looking at all the posts on this this subject, why not start to be honest with yourselves and just don't make an excuse about using a mobile phone in the car , :evil:
Nobody has made ' an excuse about using a mobile phone in the car '.
I've stated earlier in this thread that Practical Caravan forum is not a law enforcement agency and there will be no witch hunt on the forum. Nobody is required to be honest with themselves because if you'd read my earlier moderator intervention (these are always in green text) you would know that I will remove any comment which could potentially lead to forum arguments or ill feeling.