Poor manufacturing standards these days

[Steve L]

We had our water freeze overnight thursday in our caravan. Well it was -13 C. The waste water had froze in the pipes too. So I filled the kitchen sink with hot water which normally within 10 mins clears the blockage. This time it didn't so I thought I'd use a plunger to help it. What happened was the sink drain came apart depositing 5 litres of water all over the cutlery draws.

Why did it happen?

The manufacturer of the drain had push fitted two plastic parts together without any glue! I wouldn't of minded if it was a cheap fitting but as we all know by the time the products get to the stand in the caravan shop they're already 400% dearer than at the production line. But for the sake of a dab of glue the £4-99 plastic fitting is now not fit for purpose.

Now given the volume of caravan production and the amount of drain wastes bought as aftermarket spares, there is no real case to justify scrimping on the cost of a litre of glue. Thats about what would be consumed in a years production.

I would love to show the cost cutter an inside view of my sink to explain why penny pinching doesn't pay!!!!!

Not so long ago things were "engineered to last" now it's "designed for failure". Yes having been in research & developement, I can assure you a designed life expectancy is now included so that the manufacturer has a pre-determined spare parts production criteria to meet and guarantee'd repeat custom.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[Surfer]

We never had a problem with water freezing inside the caravan. I am surpised that you used a plunger though on a blocked drain inside the caravan as it is known that they only use these push fit connections.
I think I know what has happened. The waste water pipe obviously never emptied entirely into the waste carrier and froze on the outside. More waste water went in to the pipe and as it was alrady blocked also froze further up so instead of just a few inches being frozen, a few feet were frozen.
We always made sure that all waste water drained out fo the pipes and that they were clear. We used to put soem blue into the waste container and thsi also seemed to stop it frpm freezing up into one solid block. Never had a problem with the wate barrels.
BTW how is the Rover doing?

 

[DavidKlyne]

Perhaps you have approached it the wrong way? You don't say way sort of waste container you use by if its the Wastemaster type the water has likely frozen and blocked the exit hose. In those circumstances any amount of work with a plunger is unlikely to work. A tip I was given by someone who does winter camping in Scotland was to always use a bucket under the waste outlet from the caravan to allow water to drain freely.

David

 

[Philspadders]

Yes having been in research & developement, I can assure you a designed life expectancy is now included so that the manufacturer has a pre-determined spare parts production criteria to meet and guarantee'd repeat custom.

Steve , i managed an R & D department for 2 years in electronics.#

I also used to design pressure vessels in the petrochem sector.
I can assure you the only "life expectancy" design was in the pressure vessels industry and that was based on NACE calculations for corrosion of the pressure vessels.

In the electronics sector there was a life expectancy calculation based on the product life cycle of the finished goods.

Take a washing machine. The product life cycle of a washing machine is 6.6 years. Thats the time taken from design, manufacture , sales and obscelesance due to new design and technology and the changing requirements of the householder.

Mobile phones have a product lifecycle of less than 6months.

The iphone for instance was expected to have a lifecycle of around 19 months. The iphone appeared late 2007 and we are already on version 4.

It would not make economic sense to produce items that are going to be replaced within a known time frame.

As for the waste water connection under the sink, the plastics used are not designed to withstand boiling water. Even adhesives other than a high grade silicone would probably have failed. Pouring boiling water down the sink probably caused a rapid expansion of the joint causing it to fail.And yes , i have seen the and replaced the plastic connections under a caravan seat.

When you next visit a house take a peek under the sink and check out the waste water connections- not a drop of glue in sight.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello steve,
I can understand your frustration with the apparent failure of the design and what I am about to write will not offer you any solace for the difficulty you have had.
Full time use and -13C , and the prolonged sub zero is quite extreme for the UK. You would need to seek confirmation from the caravan manufacture but they may not have designed your caravan for such extremes, - in which case the design is not actually faulty but simply being used outside of if its design envelope.

Its easy to jump to the conclusion that a particular assembly method is inadequate, and it it may be the design does not call for glue, or it could be the production line failed to add the glue.

I'm no fan of the state of the UK caravan industries design methods they don't seem to learn quickly enough from failures, But equally I'n no great fan of grossly over engineered products which are wasteful of materials and time.

I know from a few years ago when the question was asked why did one manufacture only fit a 1.6kW heater to a 22ft caravan - the answer - the caravan was only designed for summer use - well that was their excuse!.

Putting you issue into perspective, probably 99.99% of caravanner's don't have a problem.

 

[NickinFrance]

Steve, it's not just you (or me) http://www.swift-talk.co.uk/forum/topics/kitchen-sink-waste?xg_source=activity

 

[brightmore]

I agree with a lot (most in fact) with the comments about poor standards in caravan manufacture but can't fathom out why you thought a plunger would free up a waste pipe which you thought was blocked with ice....summats gotta give, and it won't be the ice.

 

[forestgump]

mr brightmore that photo must be a russ myers clip are they natural bubbles curry or beans.

 

[HerinDoors]

Hi earlier this year, we had a similar problem with the waste conection from the sink. I dont use the draw under the sink for cuttlery, but put our plastic bags etc in there. My younger daughter had enthusastically stuffed too many in there after a shop, and unknown to us pushed the waste pipe off its connection. My husband fixed it later when discovered, and no harm was done. Obviousally there is a design fault there, and should be looked at
Ta Julia

 

[Steve L]

Your probably right guys, the manufacturer would use the "only designed for summer use" clause to escape what was a poorly designed fitting.
I used a small plunger to create a small amount of pressure to encourage flow, and that worked!!!!
I don't think it unreasonable to expect to be able to use a common household methodogy to un-block a sink.

A basic question to ponder upon would be:- Would you pay full price for a caravan that could only be used for 60% of your annual monthly payments on the finance contract? Or would you expect full value for money?

For the last 3 years we have caravanned fulltime and while we respect that our caravan does have it's limitations especially in cold weather and gales. But I did think that manufacturers would of moved forward in producing components that are usable and not ones that need dis-assembly and modification by way of a spot of glue to make them fail safe.
To be quite honest we had sink blockages in our 1982 Link 575 caravan, but that never fell apart.

My point is that, "in the cost cutting slap dash must make it faster cheaper world we live in today", Quality an longevity are put to the back of the que.

 

[Caprelous]

I have read this post with interest and have to agree wityh the comments posed unfortunately nothing thats on the market today is built to last.
When I served my apprenticeship in the mid sixties it was quite the opposite .

I work in the construction industry and have seen the deteriation of products that have come on the market and the so called intended design longlevity which in my opinion is absolutely zilch.

When I was an apprentice we built the construction block at Pemberton Caravans Both at Woodhouse Lane and at Pemberton itself along with Dovedale Caravans and BlueBird which the then owner E. Rigby bought out back in the 60s the quality of some of those vans was far superior than the rubbish we see coming on the market today.

I myself in the past have purchased more modern vans that I have now,and within 4 to 5 years, roof seals ,and awning sealants where breaking down due to the flexing of these inferior panel materials being used through vibration whilst being towed .
This has all come about in striving for obtaining light weight towing ability and the use of plastics.

I would not have a modern van given to me in all fairness, and the one I had recently was no exception in build quality so got shut.

I now have a 1990 Cotswold Windrush 15/2 centre galley special which was probably one of the last coachbuilt vans produced by any British manufacturer with the exception of Carlight, Not a sign of damp anywhere, as soon as I got it I removed all roof lights and vents ,took off all awning rails etc and re bonded with sealant all the cover trims and replaced the screws, which was sheradized steel with all stainless screws
I inted to keep this van for ever and when the seals require replacing again in 3-4 years time it will be such an easy task in removal as your aware sealants only have a life expectancy where constant movement takes place approx 4/5 years max even under the bestof conditions.
Quality isnt there anymore its all plastic rubbish and ultralite panels these days.
In the good old days it was different the proof of that is in the pudding look at the old vans that are surving like Carlight and Cotswold Windrush and some of the Old Castletons not to be left out the Old Safaris the evidence is there.