poor workmanship/british caravans

[william watson]

This is the first time I have looked at your web site, very good site lots of good and usefull feedback from readers. I was looking through some of the posts in the technical section. One from Julie on (all caravan owners read this) dated 18th jun 06, with her Luner Lexon eb, WHY do we british people put up with poor workmanship and poor after sales from dealers.

I thought we, me and the mrs, would splash out and buy a new bessacarr cameo 625 gl, in 2004, costing £20,000.

The first week I had it the front panel inside that blocks off the water tank fell off, the screws used were too short and not enough glue.

NEXT, the slatts pulled right though, not enough brading clamped with the two bits of wood.

NEXT, the double fixed bed came away from the floor and rear mounts, again screws too short and fixed to 3mm wood is not strong enough (my wife and I are about 12 and 14 stone) so it 's not our weight.

NEXT, the wooden mounting holding the external drain pipe fitting fell off somwhere on route to site.

Next, all the tail lamps filled up with water well actually this happened from new. the dealer cured this by drilling small holes in the bottom of the lamps to let the water back out HA, HA,The water does not drain out it actually sooks the water in.

I could go on and on with more problems but don't want to bore you all. The fact is I paid £20,000 for this van thinking it would last for a few years, the workmanship is diabolical, they cannot be tradesmen building these vans, they must just pull anybody off the street and leave them to get on with it. Another problem is the fitting/fixtures the caravan manufactures use are rubbish and not cheep.

Is it just my van, maybe it was built on a friday, or is all british vans built to the same poor standard using poor quality parts and personell.

I have been caravaning since 1994, have been to France four times with various vans and have had similar problems with them all. I usually repair the faults myself because I don't trust the dealers workmanship around me.

Is it just me or doe's everybody have these problems. Any comments.

cheers wullie watson.

 

[AndrewWimborne]

Hi. I have had loads of problems with my 2006 Bess 525. These have been posted on a Bessacarr forum on this site. I thought i was buying the best but my previous Coachman VIP was a far superior van.

Andrew

 

[spj]

Hi William, we bought a new Avondale in 2004 and I must agree with your comments, the build quality is rubbish, after looking at other caravans from Engish manufacturers I have seen a lot poor quality vans, the Besacarr vans always looked nice but they are only well specced and over priced Swifts or Abbeys etc. People say Coachman vans are good and we are looking at the Fleetwood Heritage at present but we dont know anyone who has owned either yet.

Are the German vans any better as the cars mostly seem far better than ours, the last 3 cars I have owned have all been German [VW, Audi and now Mercedes] with no problems at all so maybe it is time to buy from abroad.

 

[PC_5041701]

Bessacarr 495SL bought new in 2004, 32 defects, been back to Swift factory for new kitchen worktop, repaired lots of defects myself. You're not on your own.

 

[CliveV]

Bessacarr 495SL bought new in 2004, 32 defects, been back to Swift factory for new kitchen worktop, repaired lots of defects myself. You're not on your own.

Thought you had gone to that great cyberspace in the sky?

Glad you havn't - whilst we may all disagree on how the Forum is run or the views of others - if we all act like adults and accept others opinions - even if we disagree - the debate will be all the richer for it.

I reckan I have agreed with about 50% of what you have said so far - now that is not bad!!!!!

LOL!!!!

 

[PC_5119929]

We've set up camp with our two kids and the others and just finished emailing the kids parents in places from Iraq to Cyprus, Belize and West Indies.

Can't believe all the @@@@ with this site.

Ours is a 2005 Bessacarr CliveV with no probs to speak of.

P C and PC .

Sorry to here about yours PC.

Were off canoeing near Saumur in the morning so have a good one all.

 

[Wendy-Norfolk]

We bought a new 2006 Besscarr Cameo 625GL and have had none of the problems that William has experienced.

Maybe he has just been very unlucky :O(

 

[clivea]

Hi,

We boughta new Bailey Series 5 Pageant in March 2005, and apart from a few small niggles it has been trouble free. We have done about 5000 miles in it. So far so good. It also has a good carrying load.

Other Clive

 

[Joyce_5063910]

Hi William

Sorry to hear about your problems with your caravan and although I do not want to say that it is British made that is the problem, we do hear more and more about the problems people have with them. It does seem that some have been very happy with their Bitish caravans and that can only be a good sign.

But my husband would not buy British and we have German caravans and all I can say is that we do not have any of the problem that you are talking about.

Our caravan was about

 

[RobRoy]

Hi,

In 1995 I sold a Monza 1200D which I had bought ten years previously from Knowepark Caravans, when they were still in their original place at Stoneyburn, for

 

[AndrewWimborne]

Hi. Having been a caravaner for about 30 yrs and the owner of numerous new vans it is disappointing to see the same problems occuring with vans year after year. Examples would be taps not working .Water pumps failing, Water coming in around windows. Fire fronts dropping off. Bed slaps falling out.Lockers letting in water etc etc The list goes on and on. Why on earth in this day and age can we not build vans that have virtually no faults. I have been fortunate enough in my time to replace cars on a regular basis and hardly ever get a problem so why do we with caravans.

And looking at recent developments who on earth could design the new Alko wheel lock and call this progress. and what about the new drainage plugs to drain your hot watwer tank, in your worst dreams you could never design anything so bad.

yes overall vans have improved, but my god given the price they should be able to produce a near perfect van by now.

I think the problem is that because we all love caravanning we will all put up with second rate design and workmanship.

I love caravanning and with my 2006 Bessacarr 525 will continue for hopefully many years to come, but it could be so much better.

 

[Edward_5065872]

Sold our motorhome home in march 2005,and purchased our first caravan,an ace award tristar,to date the van has been returned to the dealers 3 times for approx;14 faults, and tomorrow I will be booking it in again for more repairs. I expect now that every time we use the van for something to fail.Best wishes to you all,and enjoy your hols

cheers edward

 

[VIP2006]

I beleive that the British Caravan Manufacturers are a victim of their own success and this has come about by full order books for at least a decade. and thank goodness continental manufacturers are looking hungrily at our "captive markets" as that may awake them into positive actions which gives the customer the service he deserves and pays for.

I took delivery of a new and found that the Alarm system was and still is not working ( I left a site yesterday and after a few hundred metres along the road the siren stated to operate although all of the indicators showed that the system was not working.)What a fool I felt having to drive on a busy road with a siren blaring and I having no instructions how to switch the Damn thing off. The zapper would not work!!!

This company clearly state in their literature that every van is fully tested for 12 hours before delivery to the dealer and hence the customer and this fault makes that statement somewhat untrue. I am at present compiling my list of faults for the maker/dealer to correct at the end of October.

The whole leisure industry requires a shake up as with excetions a could'nt care less attitude prevails. IMHO

 

[philip_5109302]

I beleive that the British Caravan Manufacturers are a victim of their own success and this has come about by full order books for at least a decade. and thank goodness continental manufacturers are looking hungrily at our "captive markets" as that may awake them into positive actions which gives the customer the service he deserves and pays for.

I took delivery of a new and found that the Alarm system was and still is not working ( I left a site yesterday and after a few hundred metres along the road the siren stated to operate although all of the indicators showed that the system was not working.)What a fool I felt having to drive on a busy road with a siren blaring and I having no instructions how to switch the Damn thing off. The zapper would not work!!!

This company clearly state in their literature that every van is fully tested for 12 hours before delivery to the dealer and hence the customer and this fault makes that statement somewhat untrue. I am at present compiling my list of faults for the maker/dealer to correct at the end of October.

The whole leisure industry requires a shake up as with excetions a could'nt care less attitude prevails. IMHO

Just wait till the Chinese/Japanese import their vans. With Toyota type quality, the Brits will have to sharpen up their act or they'll go the same way as Triumph did in the 70's!!

 

[william watson]

well thanks for all the replys about poor workmanship, looks like not all but lots of us have suffered or are suffering from this problem.

Maybe the caravan manufacturers should take a look at this site read and learn some of the problems/gripes with thier products from the people that matter to them.

Maybe my next caravan will be from abroad.

I was right this is a good site to share info, etc. theres also a wee bit of banter and humour.

PC, I have just came back from France Saumur, loved the place people were great, wine was nice as well. Everybody have a nice holiday. cheers.

 

[shane_5129244]

well thanks for all the replys about poor workmanship, looks like not all but lots of us have suffered or are suffering from this problem.

Maybe the caravan manufacturers should take a look at this site read and learn some of the problems/gripes with thier products from the people that matter to them.

Maybe my next caravan will be from abroad.

I was right this is a good site to share info, etc. theres also a wee bit of banter and humour.

PC, I have just came back from France Saumur, loved the place people were great, wine was nice as well. Everybody have a nice holiday. cheers.

reading your comments about your van i would like to say you are not alone. I have a 1.5 year old winsor rapid off-road van and it has the same problems you talk about.$35.000.00 AUS. not a cheap van here. the dealers are the same through out the manufactureing industry, get your hard earned dollars then thats the end of the after sale service.

 

[Icemaker]

our first van was a swift challenger which basically every time it rained it failled the challenge to keep the water outside, it was a 1992 model so we thought we had just been unlucky and sold it back to the dealer who had attempted to repair it many times. after this van we decided we would only ever buy new and having done research decided to get a coachman pastiche 2001 model, this van was absolutely first class it never went back to the dealer untill its first service was due and in its first year we toured for 86 nights with it. whilst my parents where buying a new van they rang me and adviced me that our dealer had got a coachman vip 520 in stock which somebody had failled to collect we went to have a look and bought the van due to the exellent price, again this van was absolutely first class, not one single fault touring summer and winter with two adults two kids and two dogs. after about a year i was at our dealer again with my sister when i saw an ex demo coachman laser 590/4 and as the kids wher growing up i thought it would be a good idea to have a larger van so we ended up the proud owners of it, once again we had no problems what so ever in the six months we had it. unfortunately for us on our way to harrogate a white van man failled to see 25 foot of white box behind my car and wrote off the side. the van was repaired but we where never happy with it and decided to look for a replacement. as we had had coachmans for so long we decided to try another make and really liked the layout of the ace equirry, our dealer does a special version of this van called the celebration so we did a deal and took delivery almost exactelly a year ago, well its been a nightmare parts where missing on delivery and did not turn up untill the service a month ago its had 3 full sets of hinges on the cupboard doors its had two new drawers over the heater (they melt) the bathroom door has had to be repeatedly adjusted as it hits the roof the main mirror has cracked due to the van flexing in transit, the bed slatts fall out every time you pull them to make up the bed and its going back again next week as whilst we where in france it rained one night and we ended up with an inch and a half of water all round the roof light in the kitchen as the roof had sagged. fortunately for us we know the van has got no damp as its just had its first service so we have part exchanged it with the same dealer for another coachman. we for one will never buy any other british made van other than coachman again they are without doubt the best built british van you can buy (imho).

 

[william watson]

Hi, maybe I should buy a coachman next time, see I some of your luck rubs off. good to see at least one manufactures getting it right, cheers ww.

 

[JamesFrance]

I guess the problem is that it's a cottage industry in England but without the craftsmen.

In Europe the tendency is for a few really big companies to swallow the rest and apply the sort of standards which killed off the British motor industry.

British built vans sell on a high spec. with fancy cooking equipment and de luxe upholstery. Looks good in the showroom.

 

[RichardS1]

I can relate to Icemakers post. We bought an Ace Award a couple of years ago and the van was a nightmare. Everytime we towed it something fell off, in the year we had the van it was back at the dealers four times for Warranty work. In the end we simply had enough of the van and changed it for a Senator Series 5. This is the first Bailey we have owned, and we are very pleased with the van. Not one fault as yet and the van has been used extensively. Friends of ours own a Coachman Laser which is approaching eight years old. The van has been well used and has toured Europe on several occasions. It has been problem free and after eight years is still dry with no resealing done as yet. Personally I will never touch another Swift group van and will always buy Bailey or Coachman

 

[Lutz]

I agree with JamesFrance. There are just too many small caravan manufacturers in the UK who haven't got the resources to design a intensively developed product at reasonable cost and therefore have to cut corners costwise in order to be competitive.

Even the two large groups (Explorer and Swift) don't seem to take maximum possible advantage of potential synergies between their various operations.

 

[AlfromYC]

Nothing is ever gonna change while people keep buying them. Simple as that.

The manufacturers will know all the faults with their vans, but will only repair them if the owner complains loud and hard enough. Crap way to do business, but thats the way of the modern world.

(our first van last year was a 1979 stirling, couldnt fault it bar it was 2 birth, build quality was 1st class). Moved onto a 1992 elddis wisp 510 cd 6 birth in July this year, and quality is no where near the same)

 

[gavin_5121842]

A few good reasons why buying second hand vans saves you a lot of hassle (and money). Hopefully all these niggles (minor and major) will be rectified.

I'd say the majority of caravans are cherished by there owners, especially when bought new. If you'r lucky enough you'll pick one up with all the bells and whistles that mine came with. All i've had to buy for my caravan is an alarm, it came with absoulutly everything needed.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Just like to say that all British vans are not poorly made or finished.

Certainly the ones we have had over 25+ years from different makers have all been very well turned out and the latest Bailey is the best of a good lot.

Cars on the other hand have given trouble but then they were made in Germany,Italy, France and Japan in that order.

Its all down to the luck of the draw.

 

[xtrailman]

I have had problems from new with all the caravans I have had. The last an Avondale I had to sell after seven years. This was due to all the external screws rusting and allowing water ingress. In 2004 I made enquiries to Avondale asking whether they had converted to stainless screws, they replied no! Another manufacturer who does not use stainless external screws is coachman. So my advice is don't buy either.

My two previous vans were Swifts, which do use stainless.

Before I bought my present van a bailey I was assured by them that they indeed used stainless, I checked anyway with a magnet, all good quality stainless screws are none magnetic.

I consider the advances in caravan design to be quite pathetic.

The brake adjustment on the alko chassis is similar to what I had on my Austin A40. Why cant they be self adjusting? discs brakes?

From my Avondale the toilet design has gone backwards. I have to carry a container to fill the flush tank, and unlike the drain tube fitted previously I now have to place a funnel under the drain (to empty the tank.)

I have removed the spare wheel from under the van, as it was extremely difficult to remove it in the event of a flat tyre. The previous Avondale had the spare in the van floor. Perfect for access keeping the wheel clean, and for loading. It now sits in the front locker.

The Electrolux fridge fitted to the Avondale never failed in the seven years we had it, nearly always on mains. The dometec fridge has now failed again luckily at the end of our holiday; previously the heating element had been changed, last year.

I now have no confidence in it.

Also in our holiday the Truma heater has started to leak from the tank gasket/ weld. Luckily it seals itself when the tank warms up! Junk compared to again the Avondale, which had a carver water heater, which you didn't have to remove an external cover to use it on gas!

The van is booked in this week for warranty repairs, I will also ask them to look at a couple of draw runners that have dropped, hardly surprising considering the 4mm thick wood the securing screws go into.

Finally the road lights are again from the 60s lights that leak water in and rust, how do they get away with it?

And please don't say buy German they do not impress.

My van is a Bailey senator Vermont, not a bad van overall its just the fittings put into it which appear common to most British vans that spoil the experience