Ray, electrolux and dometic are the same company, nothing changed with the fridge other than the name which was changed to be more euro friendly, the only other company that makes caravan fridges is thetford who seem to be supplying most of the uk manufacturers these days. on the subject of screws ? had a look round both the ace i have at the moment (my coachman comes next week) and my dads coachman pastiche and i can find very few external screws on either indeed on the coachman the only visible external screws are on the lights and they are without doubt stainless steel no other screw is visible or exposed to external forces. personally we find the cover on the truma water heater much better than having to remove the whole heater face off the carver each time we used the van after it had been out of use for a month or so to see if any mice had set up camp inside it. it take 2 seconds with the truma the carver was an hour of a job. completely agree with your thoughts on german vans though we find them quite repulsive and in no way well built, we had a look round quite a few at cambells in preston and could not find one van that appealed to us and most on display had something broken off. my sister has an avondale that is two years old and up untill the latest holiday in france had been faultless however it has come back with the 240 volt element on the dometic fridge burnt out which i repaired for her (new element
Ice maker thanks for your feedback.
As I remember dometic took over electrolux, so I do think that the product is now inferior. Two fridge failures in only two months on site use, is I consider poor.
Regarding the non stainless steel external screws I refer to the 200 screws hidden under the plastic covering the ones securing the awning rails etc. I am not knocking your choice of caravan, indeed I would have bought one instead of the bailey had it not been for the lack of stainless screws, I confirmed this for my self be pulling back the plastic insert a testing with a magnet, coachman confirmed my fears via email so I walk away. I didn't know my Avondale was rusting away until some chap on this site or other mentioned it! I was upset at the time as I wanted to keep the van but a quote of
As I remember dometic took over electrolux, so I do think that the product is now inferior. Two fridge failures in only two months on site use, is I consider poor.
Regarding the non stainless steel external screws I refer to the 200 screws hidden under the plastic covering the ones securing the awning rails etc. I am not knocking your choice of caravan, indeed I would have bought one instead of the bailey had it not been for the lack of stainless screws, I confirmed this for my self be pulling back the plastic insert a testing with a magnet, coachman confirmed my fears via email so I walk away. I didn't know my Avondale was rusting away until some chap on this site or other mentioned it! I was upset at the time as I wanted to keep the van but a quote of
took the van for repair today, explained the problem with the fridge, when a voice behind says "thanks the same problem ive got" i will be emailing dometic to find out whats going on
I have had 3 new vans in the last 5 years, and quite a few second hand ones before that, all British and all with no real problems. Does that mean that all British vans are good, no it doesn't, nor does it mean that all foreign vans are crap. My latest van is a Coachman which after 3 and a half months and 3 weeks in France and numerous nights in the UK has yet to present me with any fault whatsoever. Try counting the number of UK vans and foreign vans next time you travel. Work out the proportion of one against the other and that may tell you why most of the complaints are about UK vans. I know a number of other caravanners with UK vans and they don't spend all day telling me about the problems with their vans but my pal who has a Hymer motorhome has had it back to Hymer (Foreign?) 3 times in 6 months. I have never had to return a UK van to the dealer except for its annual service. Sometimes I get the feeling that the British public has an 'It is British, it must be rubbish' complex.
From reading a lot of posts about problems a number of them are not about the van but the equipment in them, fridges, water heaters etc.
Sorry about the rant.
From reading a lot of posts about problems a number of them are not about the van but the equipment in them, fridges, water heaters etc.
Sorry about the rant.
I hesitate to spoil the lovefest for Coachman but we bought a Atlantia 500/5 ( Atlanta with extras ) last year and have suffered a series of niggling faults and as we live some distance from the supplying dealer,it's a pain having to take it back. Faults so far: a sink tap that will not remain tight and flops around, door blind will not retract in spite of being retensioned at the first service, couldn't get any gas through the system last w/e, now been told by the supplying dealer that he knew exactly what was causing that, the regulator on the bulkhead has "gone down " and will have to be replaced. The decals on the front of the 'van also curled up and came adrift and a mobile fitter was sent out to replace them. Whilst there, I asked him about two large areas of matt paint on the side of the 'van, stupidly, as they were outside the areas of the washroom and the wardrobe I had assumed it was caused by condensation. His advice was it was a paint problem, take it back. A 'phone call to the supplier elicited the advice, "I've seen that before, rub it down with a cutting compound and then polish."
Once the season is over, the 'van will be going back to be sorted but we shouldn't have to put up with these niggles. Final moan, if the gas regulator was known to cause problems, why weren't owners made aware of it, it would have saved me an awful lot of chasing around last w/e ?
I had a new Elddis Typhoon that leaked like a sieve. My friend and I bought new Swifts on which the paint work faded to reveal factory accident damage. Will try German next.
I have a 24 year old Link 575 twin axle van which was built by Dean line in 1982. Apart from sealing the left hand awning rail at thr roof and curing a leak behind the left front marker light, the van has been trouble free and a joy to live in.
I guess building only twenty by hand using craftsmen is testimony to traditional skills but at todays prices they probably would of cost
I guess building only twenty by hand using craftsmen is testimony to traditional skills but at todays prices they probably would of cost
I have an Abbey that is 14 years old. It has had no problems in all the years I have owned it. It has wooden handles on all doors and lockers, all fittings are still intact. Everything, including the fridge works perfectly. It has had a family of 5 all over Europe and the UK, and never let me down.
I have been looking at getting a more modern vas as my family are grown up now. I have looked at most manufacturers. A local Abbey dealed has some 2006 vans at a very good price. I was shocked at the poor quality of the inside of the vans. Plastic door handles that had broken, strips of sticky tape covering joins in wall sections that were already peeling, doors that had runners that had dropped, knobs that came off in my hand when I touched them etc.
I also looked at a 2005 Elddis Crusader. Above and below the gas heater the laminate was peeling off, the upholstry was starting to bobble, the runner fot the dividing curtain was coming away from the roof etc.
I looked at vans, both new and 1-2 years old and I am afraid I cannot find anything built as well as my 14 year old van. If these new/nearly new vans have these problems now, I wonder what state they will be in 10 years time! if they survive that long.
Until I can find a van, either British made or foreign then I am afraid I can't justify spending
I have been looking at getting a more modern vas as my family are grown up now. I have looked at most manufacturers. A local Abbey dealed has some 2006 vans at a very good price. I was shocked at the poor quality of the inside of the vans. Plastic door handles that had broken, strips of sticky tape covering joins in wall sections that were already peeling, doors that had runners that had dropped, knobs that came off in my hand when I touched them etc.
I also looked at a 2005 Elddis Crusader. Above and below the gas heater the laminate was peeling off, the upholstry was starting to bobble, the runner fot the dividing curtain was coming away from the roof etc.
I looked at vans, both new and 1-2 years old and I am afraid I cannot find anything built as well as my 14 year old van. If these new/nearly new vans have these problems now, I wonder what state they will be in 10 years time! if they survive that long.
Until I can find a van, either British made or foreign then I am afraid I can't justify spending
Our 2006 Bessacarr 645 is still performing well. We have had one curtain rail come loose ( short screws I would guess at) and a light in a wardrobe that wouldn't go off when the door was shut.
New Toyota LC had an engine warnning light on. Sat Nav the young lady inside had a bad stammer.
Radio poor electrical connection causing intermittent sound problem. All fixed in 20 minutes both Car and Van, so can't complain about service. Are we being over critical ??? I don't know the answer to that each and everyone of us is different.
Val & Frank
New Toyota LC had an engine warnning light on. Sat Nav the young lady inside had a bad stammer.
Radio poor electrical connection causing intermittent sound problem. All fixed in 20 minutes both Car and Van, so can't complain about service. Are we being over critical ??? I don't know the answer to that each and everyone of us is different.
Val & Frank
There are arguements on both sides of this one. However, one difference is that many of the European manufacturers combine thier businesses and different makes of van can be made in the same factory. This does give them advantages of production, which of course leads to lower costs. This also means that interchangeability of parts is possible.
Since the demise of Carlight there has not been any bespoke caravan manufacturers left in the UK, they all work on production lines and the necessity to keep the whole lot moving can often mean that faults are left, which are supposed to be rectified by the dealer at the PDI. He/she in turn are working on even tighter margins, just to stay afloat and sometimes these are missed. The fist service is usually a good time to get all the snags sorted, because by then a year's use has shown them all up.
The answer? If you want a handbuilt product then be prepared to pay a handbuilt price.
Since the demise of Carlight there has not been any bespoke caravan manufacturers left in the UK, they all work on production lines and the necessity to keep the whole lot moving can often mean that faults are left, which are supposed to be rectified by the dealer at the PDI. He/she in turn are working on even tighter margins, just to stay afloat and sometimes these are missed. The fist service is usually a good time to get all the snags sorted, because by then a year's use has shown them all up.
The answer? If you want a handbuilt product then be prepared to pay a handbuilt price.
Hello all,
It is a sad trait of human nature that we are only likely to contribute to a thread like this when we have either had something go wrong, or something has gone exceptionally well. Whilst I have no information of the numbers or percentages of posters to non posters it is likely that there are many thousands of what the manufactures would describe as happy customers,simply because they don't complain.
This is the game that manufactures play, and it is used as their excuse not to significantly review their build techniques. - because they will say the vast majority of customers have not complained so they must be happy and therefore the product must be right.
I suspect that the caravan industry has traditionally been poor at responding to customer complaints and so this has actually depressed customer expectations to the point where many just accept that we will get poor quality,unreliable products. Theres no point in complaining because nothing will be done to improve things we just have to live with it.
Many of us will know that it is possible to have well designed and manufactured caravans, but to find them we usually have to look abroad.
So what is different between the UK and foreign manufactures - There must be many differences, but one particular one is the way the manufacturing workforce is employed in the UK. Virtually all large scale UK manufactures employ the construction workforce on short term piece work contracts. The manufactures cram the majority of the caravan build into a few months and because the work force is paid on the number of units they turn out, there is only lip service to quality control and fault rectification on the production line.
It must be a logistical nightmare to get all the suppliers to get materials there on time, and the fact is that some supply chains don't keep up, so caravans are built with parts missing, with the expectation that they will be fitter either later in the manufacture storage facilities, or by the caravan dealer.
There is an end of line inspection, but the speed at which these units come of the production line there is little chance to fully inspect. That is one of the functions of the Dealers PDI - to find the manufacturing failures, but by the time the dealer does this, any useful information will be too delayed to be used to modify production to minimise the problem in the future. So the same build problems are likely to occur in most caravans from that line.
This raises the question of why does the customer have to pay extra for the PDI, surely anything that is found missing of faulty is the manufactures responsibility, an not the customers.
Heres a thought to save you money. Instruct the dealer not to carry out a PDI. If they don't do it they cannot charge you for it. Then when you have the caravan return it to the dealer to have all the faults put right under warranty which you do not have to pay for.
If we really want to improve UK caravans, then we must complain about items that are faulty.
It is a sad trait of human nature that we are only likely to contribute to a thread like this when we have either had something go wrong, or something has gone exceptionally well. Whilst I have no information of the numbers or percentages of posters to non posters it is likely that there are many thousands of what the manufactures would describe as happy customers,simply because they don't complain.
This is the game that manufactures play, and it is used as their excuse not to significantly review their build techniques. - because they will say the vast majority of customers have not complained so they must be happy and therefore the product must be right.
I suspect that the caravan industry has traditionally been poor at responding to customer complaints and so this has actually depressed customer expectations to the point where many just accept that we will get poor quality,unreliable products. Theres no point in complaining because nothing will be done to improve things we just have to live with it.
Many of us will know that it is possible to have well designed and manufactured caravans, but to find them we usually have to look abroad.
So what is different between the UK and foreign manufactures - There must be many differences, but one particular one is the way the manufacturing workforce is employed in the UK. Virtually all large scale UK manufactures employ the construction workforce on short term piece work contracts. The manufactures cram the majority of the caravan build into a few months and because the work force is paid on the number of units they turn out, there is only lip service to quality control and fault rectification on the production line.
It must be a logistical nightmare to get all the suppliers to get materials there on time, and the fact is that some supply chains don't keep up, so caravans are built with parts missing, with the expectation that they will be fitter either later in the manufacture storage facilities, or by the caravan dealer.
There is an end of line inspection, but the speed at which these units come of the production line there is little chance to fully inspect. That is one of the functions of the Dealers PDI - to find the manufacturing failures, but by the time the dealer does this, any useful information will be too delayed to be used to modify production to minimise the problem in the future. So the same build problems are likely to occur in most caravans from that line.
This raises the question of why does the customer have to pay extra for the PDI, surely anything that is found missing of faulty is the manufactures responsibility, an not the customers.
Heres a thought to save you money. Instruct the dealer not to carry out a PDI. If they don't do it they cannot charge you for it. Then when you have the caravan return it to the dealer to have all the faults put right under warranty which you do not have to pay for.
If we really want to improve UK caravans, then we must complain about items that are faulty.
Just curious John L, I haven't paid for a PDI on either of the 2 vans I have purchased. I would have been 'hit' for a delivery charge, which may include this, but I 'escaped' by getting a Show deal from the dealer.
Hi Scotch Lad
I havn't bought a new caravan so I was basing my suggestion on the basis of another thread that suggested that the dealer charged
I havn't bought a new caravan so I was basing my suggestion on the basis of another thread that suggested that the dealer charged
After 1 years ownership of a Bessacarr 625 gl 2006, I have to say it is the best built van I have purchased new in the last 25 years.Am I just lucky? No, I think that my dealer really cares, and knows what a P.D.I. should be. The dealer is in N.Yorks and just of the A1,near an Army Camp.C.C. should give you a clue.
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