Premium Diesel

[Mike_S]

Fellow Forum members might be interested in the results of my fuel consumption checks over the past few months.
Vehicle - Seat Alhambra 140 DSG Auto Diesel bought in April 2012 with approx 2000 on the clock. Since then have covered 6500 miles including some towing (excellent towcar by the way).
The figures below are for solo use, mixed driving - town, A-roads, some M-way. The most recent 1500 miles using premium fuel only; before that a mix of supermarket and "ordinary" diesel fuel.
Comsumption
Supermarket fuel 40.5 mpg @ 140.9 p/l = 15.7 p /mile
Ordinary fuel also 40.5 mpg @ 144.9 p/l = 16.1 p / mile
Premium fuel 43.5 mpg @ 152.9 p/l = 15.8 p/mile

I've found a similar improvement when towing (Bailey Senator California). Whether the car runs more smoothly, accelerates faster, etc would be a more subjective decision - the car is wonderfully smooth and quiet anyway.
For the moment I shall continue to use premium fuels.
Shell and BP claim their premium fuels are better/cleaner for the engine. We shall see.

Mike

 

[Royston]

Hi Mike I too use shell ultra diesel, have been for the past 4 months, I used to get random engine mangement lights on my dash, with the reduction of power.Every time i took the car in for electronic checks to see what the fault was, all the computer woould say no fault found, at £60 a time it was becoming a headache.
previous on this forum , certain people have sold their car Ford, because they could not find a cure.
Now my car is a 51 plate vectra estate 2.2 , since using the ultra diesel, the engine runs alot smoother , no black deposits on the front of the van when towing, I know I pay 6p a litre more than normal diesel but the constant dread of the engine management light coming on distrupting my journeys appears to be a thing of the past.
Royston

 

[Surfer]

Perhaps it is because the premium fuel has more "oil" in it than normal brands. It has been suggested that adding 500ml of 2 stroke oil to a tankful helps the car to run better, quieter and smoother.
Take normal diesell and rub it between your fingers, it is almost like petrol with very little lubricant in it.

 

[HenryB1]

Interesting. My 4 year old Sorento ( 20K on clock) went in for a service at the end of September and failed its MOT on emissions. The garage phoned me and said they would put an aditive in the fuel and run it for a while and it would then pass. An hour and a half later they phoned to say it had passed. Gave me both fail and pass readings when I picked it up, hugh difference. Since then I have towed van and made long and short runs and seem to be getting around 3 mpg more than before.

 

[Surfer]

Interesting. My 4 year old Sorento ( 20K on clock) went in for a service at the end of September and failed its MOT on emissions. The garage phoned me and said they would put an aditive in the fuel and run it for a while and it would then pass. An hour and a half later they phoned to say it had passed. Gave me both fail and pass readings when I picked it up, hugh difference. Since then I have towed van and made long and short runs and seem to be getting around 3 mpg more than before.

Maybe they did similar to what is on video. http://www.discoveryuk.com/video/share/uk/wheeler-dealers-webisode-3/

 

[otherclive]

I suspect they dosed it with fuel system cleaner or cetane improver. Either way I'd be worried that a Sorento with low miles failed on emissions. Mine at 70k and 7 years old was well within the allowable levels, but at only 5k per year average I guess yours does more short trips this could lead to soot/carbon build up, injector and EGR valve issues. The answer must be to increase your holidays with the van in tow!!!!!

 

[JonnyG]

Fellow Forum members might be interested in the results of my fuel consumption checks over the past few months.
Vehicle - Seat Alhambra 140 DSG Auto Diesel bought in April 2012 with approx 2000 on the clock. Since then have covered 6500 miles including some towing (excellent towcar by the way).
The figures below are for solo use, mixed driving - town, A-roads, some M-way. The most recent 1500 miles using premium fuel only; before that a mix of supermarket and "ordinary" diesel fuel.
Comsumption
Supermarket fuel 40.5 mpg @ 140.9 p/l = 15.7 p /mile
Ordinary fuel also 40.5 mpg @ 144.9 p/l = 16.1 p / mile
Premium fuel 43.5 mpg @ 152.9 p/l = 15.8 p/mile

I've found a similar improvement when towing (Bailey Senator California). Whether the car runs more smoothly, accelerates faster, etc would be a more subjective decision - the car is wonderfully smooth and quiet anyway.
For the moment I shall continue to use premium fuels.
Shell and BP claim their premium fuels are better/cleaner for the engine. We shall see.

Mike

hi mike,dont forget that your engine is steadily still being bedded in,and the fuel economy should continue to improve anyway. so until its done say 12 to 15k it will be imposible to see how big a difference premium fuels could be over standard fuels as you have used premium fuel most recently on an ever improving engine...

 

[Mike_S]

Hi JonnyG
That's an interesting observation. Perhaps the real result could be proved one way or another by running two or three consecutive tankfulls of Tesco juice (or similar!) through my Alhambra in 6 to 8 months time. I will report back!
Thanks
Mike

 

[otherclive]

I have used premium fuels in a Sorento and XC70 and to be honest I haven't noticed any improvement in mpg even when being used over 2000 miles which is 4-5 tankfuls. However I never use supermarket fuel except say in France where branded fuels are not so readily available off the autoroutes. Most controlled tests don't find any significant improvement in mpg for premium diesels cf branded fuels but where they are found to be better is in having better detergent and lubrication properties. So if it saves me costly repairs to fuel pump and injectors I will continue to use premium diesel and let my right foot look after the mpg, or use the OHs Nissan Note diesel at 60-70mpg for more non caravan journeys.

 

[Surfer]

I have used premium fuels in a Sorento and XC70 and to be honest I haven't noticed any improvement in mpg even when being used over 2000 miles which is 4-5 tankfuls. However I never use supermarket fuel except say in France where branded fuels are not so readily available off the autoroutes. Most controlled tests don't find any significant improvement in mpg for premium diesels cf branded fuels but where they are found to be better is in having better detergent and lubrication properties. So if it saves me costly repairs to fuel pump and injectors I will continue to use premium diesel and let my right foot look after the mpg, or use the OHs Nissan Note diesel at 60-70mpg for more non caravan journeys.

Well put. MPG is not my main concern, but the welfare of my engine is!

 

[raccoon]

I have started to put 250ml two stroke oil into a full tank of deisel, the mineral one not the other. It has made the engine quieter by lubrication fuel pump and injectors. This is in a deisel not petrol. I used the supermarket deisel mostly and did used to get a lot more black smoke even when running normal and not so the turbo comes in. This because supermarket deisel does not have the same aditives as Shell and BP. I still put a few gallon of Shell deisel in every couple tanks and it seems to help.

 

[seth1]

Seems like a bit of a waste of time to me when you think that the fuel all comes from the same refinerarys anyway.Somehow i dont think i.ll be adding two stroke oil to mine considering the price of replacement dpf,s.

 

[raccoon]

I dont have one on mine seth.

 

[otherclive]

Yes now that the refineries are not all owned by the oil companies you will see different tankers leaving, but the additive packages are brand specific and are added at the refinery.

 

[Dustydog]

Yes now that the refineries are not all owned by the oil companies you will see different tankers leaving, but the additive packages are brand specific and are added at the refinery.

OK. I own up and admit I fell for all this "Ultimate" diesel at £1.539 per litre. Over the last 300 miles it's made no difference to my Sorie's performance or mpg. Sorry , but imo I've wasted my money. It may have cleaned things up but every 10k I use a comma diesel cleansing additive which keeps things ungummed , allegedly!

 

[otherclive]

I have yet to read a report from an authoritive body that will fully substantiate any meaningful increase in mpg. Premium diesel or petrol are slightly denser than ordinary fuels (2-3%) so any measuremenst must allow for this as the calorific value is greater than ordinary fuels, so any claim that you might get 25 extra miles per tankful is probably based on this fact alone. This is also part of the reason for premuim fuels being more expensive as fuel duty is levied on energy content and VAT is then levied on that increased amount too. There is also the different refining methods used too. The additve packages are extremely complex and amounts as low as 10ppm of some elements are added and so self dosing on modern engines is not as straight forwards as it was on older less complex units. An example being to use self dosing fuel system cleaner which has a strong detergent effect. This could be fine for the fuel system but modern diesel oils also have blended detergents such that too much detergent entering via the fuel system can lead to lubricant wash-away on the cylinder bores, resulting in potential problems with rings, bore wear etc. Similarly cetane enhancers rarely fulfill their promise but can lead to increased Nox which may affect cat performance. What is also clear is that the fuel additives are not a constant, they will be changed by their suppliers depending on the weather (very hot-Arctic), the source of the base stock (Saudi, North Sea, WTI etc), or the particular refinery.

A Google search will lead to several papers on such things as additive packages and how they are created and introduced into the fuels. Some are added at the refinery, others at the distribution terminal, others at a Fleet HQ. Those which are very brand specific are often added later in the supply chain. So its quite easy to envisage the situation where supermarket fuels have the minimum to meet the required national standards, ordinary branded fuels have the next level of additive package and premium fuels have the most complex additive package blended specifically for the denser premium fuel.

With each of my injectors having around 30 holes per injector I think I will continue to use premium fuels and be satisfied that over 15k mile my 40mpg solo is acceptable. I reckon it costs me less than £100pa or one tankful of fuel per year, which given the cost of a fuel pump or injectors, or bore wear through distorted injector spray pattern is a price/insurance that could be worth paying, but I guess I'll never know will I?

 

[raywell]

try Millers diesel power eco max diesel additive. I have tried it and it's giving great results, As premium diesel costs 6p per ltr more, Millers is £12.99 per 500ml bottle. The doseage is 50 ml per tank so as premium costs an extra £3 per tank this works out at£1.29 per ltr. It improves starting amd mpg and also makes it run smoother. Take a look motoring forums. one in particular is briskoda the reviews are mostly positive, those that are not positive arenone commital, I have never yet found a negative reviewor report. It's 100% worth a try

Ray

 

[otherclive]

I used Millers in my Sorento and OH's Dci Note but to be honest didnt notice any difference and since neither car had any issues with starting or running it was for mpg that I used it.

 

[Royston]

I have been using premium Shell ultra diesel now for the past 5 months, Since using, it the unexplained engine management warning system That randomly came on causing instant reduction in speed,sometime causing lots horns blaring when you have to put the emergency hazard warning lights on as you limp onto the hard shoulder, switching the engine off the instant restart as if nothing had happened, have been eliminated .
I got to the point of selling the car as the car computer always recorded no engine management problem codes when tested .
I have saved a lot of garage bills, as the problem has not occured since, I find driving much more relaxing again.
I note that the formula for producing their ultra fuels is different to their standard fuels ,more cleaner less contaniments.

 

[Mike_S]

Some interesting replies since I started this thread 3 weeks ago. Conclusion ? I will continue using premium diesel.

2 Stroke oil? I lasted added 2 stroke oil to fuel (petrol) 36 years ago when I had an East German Wartburg car that had a 3 cylinder 2 stroke engine and yes, I did tow with it - although something smaller than the present Senator!
Mike

 

[Surfer]

Some interesting replies since I started this thread 3 weeks ago. Conclusion ? I will continue using premium diesel.
2 Stroke oil? I lasted added 2 stroke oil to fuel (petrol) 36 years ago when I had an East German Wartburg car that had a 3 cylinder 2 stroke engine and yes, I did tow with it - although something smaller than the present Senator!
Mike

Talk of the old Wartburg car brings back fond memories. A friend of mine imported one into Rhodesia in Africa in the seventies and it would go places where many cars could not go due to it being front wheel drive. Engine was the old DKW 3 cylinder engine and my friend got the mixtrue wrong and you always knew when he was coming due to billows of smoke behind the car. I soon corrected him.

 

[JonnyG]

try Millers diesel power eco max diesel additive. I have tried it and it's giving great results, As premium diesel costs 6p per ltr more, Millers is £12.99 per 500ml bottle. The doseage is 50 ml per tank so as premium costs an extra £3 per tank this works out at£1.29 per ltr. It improves starting amd mpg and also makes it run smoother. Take a look motoring forums. one in particular is briskoda the reviews are mostly positive, those that are not positive arenone commital, I have never yet found a negative reviewor report. It's 100% worth a try

Ray

gave up on millers products a couple of years back they stink like hell and the containers leak and getting the dose right is cumbersome smelly and messy, and how can one give a negative review of a product when you have no way of telling how good it is per cost against premium diesels anyway? shell for instance goes to great lengths to come up with better formulas and test extensively,their new versions are class leading in soot test and replacement lubicity due to the loss of sulphur and indeed cetane replacement again due to the loss of sulphur..each new fuel seems to give less soot as a by product too. i am not against additives but how can one be sure that a one additive works equally well with all diesel fuels when the diesel fuels can vary in additives themselves to start with.becides most of the so called claims espically cetane raitings are based on crappy American diesel which
is way inferior to the stuff we get here. the test i have found in the past did little to back up an so called claims of a 7% improvement
in MPG,and indeed on 3 occassions in the past have used millers product around the time we made our way across europe on our
3000 miles round trips and used it to either travel out or travel back so as to atleast see if indeed there was a noticeable difference in
mpg and alas no noticeable difference only wish there had been but it seems travelling in or out made more of a difference than the fuel!
I buy older cars with 70 plus k on the clock and not really knowing enough about how they are treated the only thing i do is add low ash 2 stroke oil to my first 10 tankfulls or so,after that i stick to decent brands of diesel. i think it was seth who wasnt certain about using 2 stroke oil, but it actually contains less ash than standard diesel or added products like millers,but again i wouldnt bother using it day in and day out, just as a booster for lubricity..