Pride in the job ?

[Brendan_374352405]

I had reason to look at the side reflectors on my brand new caravan recently and noticed that they are mounted at different distances on either side, when there is plenty of space to have mounted them at the same measurements on both sides.My friends who were interested in what I was doing then measured there own caravan side reflectors and only one manufacturer seemed to take the trouble to actually measure there position before fitting them.Have a measure and decide how you would have fitted them.

B.J.

 

[Surfer]

Not bothered and don't care and why should I as long as they are on the sides and people can see them. Why does it worry you as you cannot see both sides of your caravan at the same time? Does it affect the stability of the caravan or prevent you enjoying your hobby?

 

[Brendan_374352405]

Your right of course,but see my point.....no pride !

B.J.

 

[RogerL]

Under EN1645, a reflector is required to be within tha central third of the caravan and another in the rear third. They must be fitted to the fixed bodyshell, not doors, which may restrict the choice of position in some cases.

If they're not matched then it's badly fitted but there are hundreds of more important faults that keep appearing on caravans.

 

[Lutz]

I agree with Roger. If the position of the reflectors is the only thing you've got to grumble about your caravan, you've got a darned good product.

 

[Dustydog]

Brendan

If that worries you then welcome to the real world. Pride in the job?? No such thing in most places now. My mates new house has three windows in the kitchen. All three sills are at different heights, out by as much 2 inches. Should all be the same!!

Cheers

Alan

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

"General

Express your views and let off steam about general caravanning issues"

I just don't belive some of the hostile replies to Brendans post, what is happening to these forums?

In my own case I bought a brand new caravan (brand shall remain anonymous) and the detail to finish is appalling, shower riser on the piddle, pre cut holes in furniture with edges left rough, exterior trim on the piddle, remains of mastic left all over the place, no attention to detail with edges to inferior cupboards, cables, pipes, just clipped in to place under bunks, and the first time you touch them the clips fall out, is it to much to ask that they use trunking to conceal these services? My son works as a "snager" on building sites, he took one look at it and could not believe his eyes, and in his opinion not only would the work be rejected, but also the people responsible would be sacked!

So okay, it does not effect the stability of the caravan, and its not about hundreds of more important faults with a caravan, neither do I think I have a dammed good product, the crux of the matter is I paid

 

[Dustydog]

Allan & Gill

What Brendan has said is nothing new. The lack of Pride in the Job is something we have become used to because there seems to be either a lack of skill or pressures to meet output deadlines leave no room for error.

We do need to bark more at time of purchase.

I am really sorry to hear of your caravan problems. Totally unacceptable. But forgive me for asking and I have no wish to be condescending , but why did you accept the caravan in such an appalling condition in the first place?

Thanks to this forum we made it very clear to our dealer last november that if our new purchase was not in A1 condition we would not accept it nor pay for it. Fortunately everything was OK apart from a couple of minor things which are being fixed in two weeks time. A sticking bathroom door lock and a window felt that fell out.

I will name because both Bailey and Chipping Sodbury Caravans performed extremely well for me.

Now I am sure someone else will say otherwise?

Cheers

Alan

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

a quick reply to brendan have you thought that the reflectors might just be in different places on each side for a good reason.

ie: my bailey has a side reflector on the door side of the van positioned exactly where the keys would damage the van side if left in and the door was opened fully?????. on the other side of the van in exacly the same place,???? a window.

just a thought

colin

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Why did I accept it? Because it is deemed as acceptable, if you do a search under Bailey water taste you will see the bigger picture.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Colin-Yorkshire, to late on my 2007 Bailey Arizona, opened the battery box fully aware of what would happen with the keys left in the lock, but wooops to late as I was connecting the hook up the door slipped out of my grasp, and as they say the rest is history, ouch! Totally unavoidable just plain bad design.

 

[BrianStAlbans]

colin wrote..

my bailey has a side reflector on the door side of the van positioned exactly where the keys would damage the van side if left in and the door was opened fully?????.

I thought reflectors had to be a certain height and that sounds too high to me. I bet if you took it off you would find a dent where the keys have been left in ;O)

Brian

 

[RobRoy]

Pride in the job?

I get a bit teed off with assertions that German is best and British is rubbish. I had a friend, M.D of a large engineering company, who scoffed at "German is best" and maintained that, when German engineers encountered a problem, their method of curing it was to throw more metal at it until the problem went away.

I have never had a brand new caravan so perhaps previous owners had the problems sorted out before I took ownership. I always kept my 'vans for several years and had no problems with the first, an ancient Willerby Vagabond, two Sprite Musketeers, a Monza 1200D which I had for seven of its nineteen years before I sold it. I had to fix a small area of floor delamination on an Avondale Orestes and had to replace a cupboard door catch on my last caravan, a 1991 Elddis Hurricane 200EX. Not a bad record over forty years of caravanning - and never a thought of buying anything other than British.

Rob S.

 

[Brendan_374352405]

The reflector issue was just a joke at the end of a line of faults that I have had to deal with since buying the caravan 9 months ago. I am not comparing it with any particular make or country of origin. I am just wondering why people don't bother any more. Is pride in a job a thing of the past?

Brendan

 

[PaulHull]

I think that pride in your work is a thing of the past now because if you take your time to do something properly you will have taken twice as long as the guy next to you who is rushing away and your lack of pace will be duly noted.

Isn't todays society great?

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

Hi, I have sat on my hands for far to long about what happened to us with our new van. I'll try and make it as short as possible.

As most of you know in Dec 2007 our new sterling elite onyx arrived. We had a great handover by Raymond James and took the van back to the storage. As we locked the van and double checked the door, as you do, the door clicked open onto the first stage of the door lock. We phoned Raymond James and they and had one of there service guys out to it the following day. They also reported it to swift. Swift didn't have any repair guys to send out or anyone available to come and inspect our van.

Really nice service guy from Raymond James came out and tried to do different things with the lock but nothing would work.

What the problem was that the frame was to big for the door and so it wouldn't catch properly.

Swift wanted us to have a repair but we wasnt happy with this but agreed to have the door changed with a demo model as long as the colour matched ( as silver sides ). This didn't work so Raymond James agreed that the frame was to big for the door.

Swift were informed of this and wanted us to have the door frame removed and packed out and then the frame put back on. We took legal advice, rejected the van to Raymond James who then had to reject the van back to swift. Swift were having none of it it they wanted us to have it repaired and they did ring me on a number of occations to see how things were going. I always ended up in tears because we had spent

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Jo-anne

My heart goes out to you and Craig. This was the first time in your lives you had ever bought a new caravan and it all ended in tears even before you had used it. In my book this is the PPP, P--s Poor Performance.

Ok so Raymond James were brilliant but what happened at Swift??

Did Kath help at all??

After reading Andy's saga today and now yours I hope Kath at Swift will make a sensible statement here. I really do not understand why a decent dealer, like Raymond James, has to foot the bill.

Like you, we saved really hard for many years and went without for many years to buy the caravan of our dreams. When that long term dream is shattered , whoever the manufacturer is they should show some compassion.

When I worked , if we got it wrong, we had to stand up and be counted!

Cheers

Alan

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

Alan, its the 2nd brand new van we have bought the forst was the Avondale.

Alan I never even had a letter of apology off swift what so ever. From the begining they were adderment that I was having a repair and that was that.

I would have gone all the way with it because it was faulty and not fit for purpose. Swift tried to talk us into saying it should be fixed under warrenty but it didnt happen on the way home this fault accured in the factory.

It should never have left the factory and should have been picked up by there QC or PDI inspectors but it didnt.

It was Linsey who rang me several times from swift and i was crying and the only time i heard from Kath was to confirm a new van was on its way.

I said to her "well that is what I am entitled to and this is all thanks to Bill at Raymond James.".

jo-anne

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

Alan, its the 2nd brand new van we have bought the forst was the Avondale.

Alan I never even had a letter of apology off swift what so ever. From the begining they were adderment that I was having a repair and that was that.

I would have gone all the way with it because it was faulty and not fit for purpose. Swift tried to talk us into saying it should be fixed under warrenty but it didnt happen on the way home this fault accured in the factory.

It should never have left the factory and should have been picked up by there QC or PDI inspectors but it didnt.

It was Linsey who rang me several times from swift and i was crying and the only time i heard from Kath was to confirm a new van was on its way.

I said to her "well that is what I am entitled to and this is all thanks to Bill at Raymond James.".

jo-anne

sorry about my grammer and spelling.

jo

 

[johno1]

Hi, I have sat on my hands for far to long about what happened to us with our new van. I'll try and make it as short as possible.

As most of you know in Dec 2007 our new sterling elite onyx arrived. We had a great handover by Raymond James and took the van back to the storage. As we locked the van and double checked the door, as you do, the door clicked open onto the first stage of the door lock. We phoned Raymond James and they and had one of there service guys out to it the following day. They also reported it to swift. Swift didn't have any repair guys to send out or anyone available to come and inspect our van.

Really nice service guy from Raymond James came out and tried to do different things with the lock but nothing would work.

What the problem was that the frame was to big for the door and so it wouldn't catch properly.

Swift wanted us to have a repair but we wasnt happy with this but agreed to have the door changed with a demo model as long as the colour matched ( as silver sides ). This didn't work so Raymond James agreed that the frame was to big for the door.

Swift were informed of this and wanted us to have the door frame removed and packed out and then the frame put back on. We took legal advice, rejected the van to Raymond James who then had to reject the van back to swift. Swift were having none of it it they wanted us to have it repaired and they did ring me on a number of occations to see how things were going. I always ended up in tears because we had spent

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Jo-anne

maybe Bill at Raymond James deserves a "Pride in the Job" Award from Practical caravan.

Thank god there are still some decent dealers out there.

Cheers

Alan

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

Hi Alan, yes i agree Bill should receive a Pride in the job award off practical caravan.

Raymond James are owned by Avondale if you didnt know. Bill and the directors of Avondale backed me all the way as they agreed with me that it want't fit for purpose and should never have left the swift depot.

As much as it got upsetting and uglyat times we had a great relationship with Bill and his team at Raymond James and still have.

Jo-Anne

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Jo Anne, and all.

I am pleased that you got a new caravan in the, end and I am also pleased that you found your dealer to be very helpful, But I cannot agree with your conclusion that the dealer should not carry the liability.

Based upon your report, I totally agree that the manufacture could not have carried out the appropriate tests and checks before the caravan was released to the dealer.

In much the same way that you have the right to reject faulty goods, the dealer should refuse to accept faulty goods from their supplier or manufacture. The fact that your dealer did not reject the caravan, and went on to sell it when there was a substantial manufacturing fault show that the dealer was not ensuring the goods were of merchantable quality and that is in direct contravention of the sale of goods acts.

It also shows that if they did a PDI, then it failed to detect the fault. This means they need to retrain their technicians to look for faults.

In essence they should not be selling faulty goods, and that is why they are responsible.

It is gratifying to read that having found a fault they were responsive but that is exactly what they should be doing.

The whole issue is another sad indictment of the way the caravan industry does business, and it you can see how a manufacturing fault can develop into a very expensive, time consuming and upsetting experience if it reaches the customer. If this fault had picked up in the factory it could have been corrected far more quickly and cheaply, and more importantly you would not have been affected by it.

The truth of the matter is that if the door frame is too big (or conversely the door is too small) it means that some one in the factory has made a mistake. If the production engineering had been carried properly, the opportunity for this type of mistake should be absolutely minimal, or if it cannot be prevented, then appropriate checks should be in place designed to detect this fault and prevent it from being allowed to progress through the production line to finished goods.

This state of affairs is really not good enough, and the manufacturers know this. For some reason they seem uninterested or incapable reducing manufacturing faults. There is no real excuse as there are some excellent process control systems that have allowed the car and other industries to produce far more complex products than a caravan with far fewer faults, and with better reliability.

The manufacturers are the architects of their own problems, and it does little to encourage more sales when stories like this are exposed. If they were to spend more time and effort in build design and quality methods they could reduce their warranty costs, and that would give them greater latitude to hold or even reduce prices.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi John L ,

Very well put. Your point about the dealer's responsibility is of course correct. But even so I think Bill at Raymond James took it on the chin and for some time carried the loss at his own expense.

BUT how on earth do caravans costing

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

Alan, so far so good fingers crossed.

John L, I understand that not everything is perfect and they will be issues with the van but you wouldnt have noticed the problem unless you checked the door after you had locked it. Then you start to look and realise that the gap at the top of the door was way out. it was like you know when a car has been in a smash and had a repair and the gaps dont line up anymore well thats what it was like.

I still belive that it was a major defect and that swift should have spotted it as the machine must have been out or something as the hole was to big for the door.

Anyway thanks to Bill at Raymond James i have my new replacement. If i had gone with what swift wanted to do then i would have a