Progress on EV in the commercial world.

[otherclive]

Yesterday First Bus had the opening of the new Hengrove electric bus support depot, together with the announcements and introduction of E buses. What suprised me is the speed with which E buses are being introduced across the south west, and presumably other areas too. Whilst E buses are twice the cost of a diesel bus the fuelling costs are half the price, and maintenance costs are significantly lower than a diesel, plus reliability improved on the E bus. So less spare buses required. This link also give information on HGV electric truck operations, plus the roll out in China of BYDs megawat charging points too, and electric van registrations up by 74% cf to last year. Hopefully this across the board set of initiatives will benefit caravaners too in the not too distant future.

UK's First Bus opens its electrified Hengrove depot, supporting 74 electric buses for Bristol

UK's First Bus opens its electrified Hengrove depot, supporting 74 electric buses for Bristol

electricdrives.tv

https://electricdrives.tv/?s=BYD+

 

[GaryB]

I'm involved in the technical side of the electricity supply industry and there are indeed some fantastic advancements in the pace of EV charging but the investment to upgrade the supply network is colossal and SOME of the investment costs are being hidden/skewed to make the overall cost seem a bit more appealing. I'm certainly not anti-EV like some folks but I do wish there was more transparency regarding the overall costs/investment AND environmental impact of all the upgrades.

I also wish that "our" (caravan/trailer owners) interests regarding towing and charging were being pushed into the EV charging industry by those organisations supposed to have our interests at heart, but they aren't.

 

[otherclive]

I'm involved in the technical side of the electricity supply industry and there are indeed some fantastic advancements in the pace of EV charging but the investment to upgrade the supply network is colossal and SOME of the investment costs are being hidden/skewed to make the overall cost seem a bit more appealing. I'm certainly not anti-EV like some folks but I do wish there was more transparency regarding the overall costs/investment AND environmental impact of all the upgrades.

I also wish that "our" (caravan/trailer owners) interests regarding towing and charging were being pushed into the EV charging industry by those organisations supposed to have our interests at heart, but they aren't.

I also recognise the problems that you describe, but the technical advances in vehicles and infrastructure capability is still quite astonishing. Given time I’m sure the whole will come in to a better equilibrium.

 

[ProfJohnL]

One of the best scenario's for the use of Eclectic Goods vehicles, are where there is a regular route with lots of stopping, and where all vehicles return to a central base at the end of shifts or the working day. Some of us may remember electric milk floats, but in more recent times we have Busses, Refuse collection, Posties, and I'm sure you may well think of others. These are all very compatible applications for BEV's

On a smaller scale, there are many small businesses, like flower shops, sandwich/coffee, vendors who make local deliveries. How about undertakers? and of course taxi's/ring and ride services.

The development of EV batteries can now provide more than enough range to cover the day's activities mentioned above.

In my area, the post office, DPD, one of the local social housing groups, Some of BT's/Openreach Transit sized vans have gone EV. But solutions will have to be tailored to suit local conditions across the country. In some sparsely populated area a posties daily round might exceed an EV's range.

 

[otherclive]

One of the best scenario's for the use of Eclectic Goods vehicles, are where there is a regular route with lots of stopping, and where all vehicles return to a central base at the end of shifts or the working day. Some of us may remember electric milk floats, but in more recent times we have Busses, Refuse collection, Posties, and I'm sure you may well think of others. These are all very compatible applications for BEV's

On a smaller scale, there are many small businesses, like flower shops, sandwich/coffee, vendors who make local deliveries. How about undertakers? and of course taxi's/ring and ride services.

The development of EV batteries can now provide more than enough range to cover the day's activities mentioned above.

In my area, the post office, DPD, one of the local social housing groups, Some of BT's/Openreach Transit sized vans have gone EV. But solutions will have to be tailored to suit local conditions across the country. In some sparsely populated area a posties daily round might exceed an EV's range.

One of our local undertakers arrived at a funeral I attended in a Tesla hearse.

New Tesla Hearse | AJB Funerals

We have some great news to share with you all! Our new electric Tesla Hearse has finally arrived! It has taken over three years in it’s planning and development, delayed further by covid, however it now joins our two electric Tesla ‘falcon wing’ door limousines, making us the first funeral...

ajbfunerals.co.uk

 

[birdman101]

Arriva started Electric buses in Milton Keynes but gave up on the project of changing all over to electric,saying it was unsustainable due to costs. Milton Keynes council stated back to the Drawing Board.

 

[otherclive]

Arriva started Electric buses in Milton Keynes but gave up on the project of changing all over to electric,saying it was unsustainable due to costs. Milton Keynes council stated back to the Drawing Board.

When was that? They have three depots operating E buses in London plus a fleet in Leicester. Wonder what the problem was in Milton Keynes……to many roundabouts perhaps.

 

[Tobes]

One of the best scenario's for the use of Eclectic Goods vehicles, are where there is a regular route with lots of stopping, and where all vehicles return to a central base at the end of shifts or the working day. Some of us may remember electric milk floats, but in more recent times we have Busses, Refuse collection, Posties, and I'm sure you may well think of others. These are all very compatible applications for BEV's

On a smaller scale, there are many small businesses, like flower shops, sandwich/coffee, vendors who make local deliveries. How about undertakers? and of course taxi's/ring and ride services.

The development of EV batteries can now provide more than enough range to cover the day's activities mentioned above.

In my area, the post office, DPD, one of the local social housing groups, Some of BT's/Openreach Transit sized vans have gone EV. But solutions will have to be tailored to suit local conditions across the country. In some sparsely populated area a posties daily round might exceed an EV's range.

Our window cleaner is in this camp. He uses a pure water system, which he carries in a big tank in he's vehicle. When he started he was using a pickup truck (L200 or something like it), but about 5 years ago switched to a Siac Maxus EV van. He charges once per week from home and has no problems with his route at all.

 

[RogerL]

Our window cleaner is in this camp. He uses a pure water system, which he carries in a big tank in he's vehicle. When he started he was using a pickup truck (L200 or something like it), but about 5 years ago switched to a Siac Maxus EV van. He charges once per week from home and has no problems with his route at all.

The guy who valets my car does similar - he has a Renault Zoe van with a big tank where the back seat is on the hatchback version - all his customers are within range so only charges at home.

 

[birdman101]

When was that? They have three depots operating E buses in London plus a fleet in Leicester. Wonder what the problem was in Milton Keynes……to many roundabouts perhaps.

I live only a couple of hundred yards from the MK garage and very few are Electric and we see them towed back.

 

[Buckman]

Many years ago the railways delivered goods and then vehicles carted the goods from the railway depot to the stores. This alleviated the use or necessity for HGVs, was environmentally friendly and obviously a lot cheaper, but then no mega stores like we have today and also not a broken rail system.

 

[RogerL]

Many years ago the railways delivered goods and then vehicles carted the goods from the railway depot to the stores. This alleviated the use or necessity for HGVs, was environmentally friendly and obviously a lot cheaper, but then no mega stores like we have today and also not a broken rail system.

British Railways used 1,000s of Scammell Scarabs with articulated trailers to collect/deliver goods from the goods depots with petrol or diesel engines so hardly environmentally friendly - and neither were the steam trains!

 

[GaryB]

Many years ago the railways delivered goods and then vehicles carted the goods from the railway depot to the stores. This alleviated the use or necessity for HGVs, was environmentally friendly and obviously a lot cheaper, but then no mega stores like we have today and also not a broken rail system.

The problem is that back then stores, factories, businesses etc held more stock, nowadays it's seen as dead money and a lot of folks adopt Just-in-time principles where much smaller stock values are held and hence transported.

I can remember doing my apprenticeship in the late 1980's with a big company in Loughborough and they had their own sidings from the Midlands Mainline so goods could be brought straight into the works!

 

[Buckman]

British Railways used 1,000s of Scammell Scarabs with articulated trailers to collect/deliver goods from the goods depots with petrol or diesel engines so hardly environmentally friendly - and neither were the steam trains!

Good points, but a lot less congestion on motorways. I remember the 3 wheel Scammells I think they died out when containers arrives. Surely the same could be done again today with using EVs to transport goods from railway depot to shop. A contained could be transported by electric train to railway depot and then an EV moves the container to the business for off loading?

 

[RogerL]

Good points, but a lot less congestion on motorways. I remember the 3 wheel Scammells I think they died out when containers arrives. Surely the same could be done again today with using EVs to transport goods from railway depot to shop. A contained could be transported by electric train to railway depot and then an EV moves the container to the business for off loading?

No motorways when the Scammells were around - much reduced railway network now - and not all lines have clearance for containers.

There are some rail-road interchanges, eg Daventry International Rail Freight Terminal (DIRFT) but EV trucks capable of hauling a full container are rare at present.

 

[GaryB]

Back in the 70's there were trials done with a container system that had a chassis and two axles, one for road and one for rail which could be raised/lowered to suit the required mode of transport, from memory it was called the "Road Railer".

Edit: Found it:

View: https://youtu.be/QY7q64u2G4c?si=9MlcVCFrLx13Gozg

 

[Buckman]

No motorways when the Scammells were around - much reduced railway network now - and not all lines have clearance for containers.

There are some rail-road interchanges, eg Daventry International Rail Freight Terminal (DIRFT) but EV trucks capable of hauling a full container are rare at present.

I am surprised as I can remember the Scammels with their 2ltr engine in late sixties and we definitely had a "motorway" leading into the city. The motorway was 6 lanes, but we are talking Morris Minors and Ford Prefects day so no real fast cars except for the American cars.

I am fairly sure that were used well into the seventies and for their size they used to pull some very big units behind them.

 

[birdman101]

The trailers for the Scarabs were built in Wolverton Railway Carriage works in Wolverton now part of Milton Keynes.The cabs were all hand painted there by the rail carriage painters, no spray guns in those days.

 

[GaryB]

One of the longest serving Scarabs was in Dartford tunnel where it was used as a breakdown truck due to it's tight turning circle.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I live only a couple of hundred yards from the MK garage and very few are Electric and we see them towed back.

That's insufficient information to enable any one to draw a firm conclusion about the attrition rate of EV vs ICE busses on MK's routes.

 

[otherclive]

The problem is that back then stores, factories, businesses etc held more stock, nowadays it's seen as dead money and a lot of folks adopt Just-in-time principles where much smaller stock values are held and hence transported.

I can remember doing my apprenticeship in the late 1980's with a big company in Loughborough and they had their own sidings from the Midlands Mainline so goods could be brought straight into the works!

Brush, or Herbert Morris ? Most of my course mates were apprentices at one or the other company.

 

[Buckman]

The trailers for the Scarabs were built in Wolverton Railway Carriage works in Wolverton now part of Milton Keynes.The cabs were all hand painted there by the rail carriage painters, no spray guns in those days.

Memory a bit vague, but I think the Scammels that were sue don the railways were green in colour as that was the colour chosen by the railways in SA. I do not recall seeing them in any other colour.

 

[GaryB]

Brush, or Herbert Morris ? Most of my course mates were apprentices at one or the other company.

Brush (Switchgear). Left there in 1995 but have stayed in the same (electricity supply equipment) industry ever since.

 

[birdman101]

That's insufficient information to enable any one to draw a firm conclusion about the attrition rate of EV vs ICE busses on MK's routes.

If you read my earlier post it was stated as not financially viable reported in local newspaper,

 

[ProfJohnL]

If you read my earlier post it was stated as not financially viable reported in local newspaper,

That does not explain why they came to that conclusion, what was causing the mismatch between expectations and reality. And I am always sceptical about newspaper reports which often mistake hearsay for facts. and clickbait headlines.