Propane gas water heater

[Lisky]

Hi first time poster and first caravan so excuse my ignorance. I have purchased an old caravan Compass Rally GTE with a carver2 gas only water heater. I have it on some land with electric available and well fed water. I plan to use it for when visitors stay and want their own space. I am thinking of installing an onboard water tank min 70 lts fed directly from water well controlled with a float in the tank, do away with cascade carver2 hot water heater. A sureflo after the tank feeding a propane gas water heater for showers and another smaller one under the sink for dishes. Is there a better way of doing this and what brands are best?
Many thks in advance.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi first time poster and first caravan so excuse my ignorance. I have purchased an old caravan Compass Rally GTE with a carver2 gas only water heater. I have it on some land with electric available and well fed water. I plan to use it for when visitors stay and want their own space. I am thinking of installing an onboard water tank min 70 lts fed directly from water well controlled with a float in the tank, do away with cascade carver2 hot water heater. A sureflo after the tank feeding a propane gas water heater for showers and another smaller one under the sink for dishes. Is there a better way of doing this and what brands are best?
Many thks in advance.

Hello, and welcome to the forum.

Your proposals strike a warning bell, particularly in the case of the gas fired shower heater. What ever heater appliance is fitted must be room sealed to prevent gas fumes entering the living space, and I am not aware of a high capacity (circa 10kW) LPG water heater that is approved for fitting into UK touring caravans and meets legal requirements.

And on another legal note, as it is your intention to allow visitors (i.e. persons who do not own the caravan) to use the facility, all the statutes of the Gas Safety Installation and Use Regulations will Apply, so all gas work MUST be performed by a qualified fitter.

 

[Lisky]

Thanks for quick reply. Yes I own the caravan the heater I had in mind was the ridgeyard model 24kw output no electric used to power it as runs off batteries for ignition also found one that runs off 5.5 kw supply. I'm guessing with that and other restrictions you mentioned it's a no go. What I'm trying to achieve are longer showering times can you suggest anything? Maybe an electric shower as I don't have to worry about tripping anything on a campsite? Or maybe an onboard water heater with larger hot water storage capacity?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thanks for quick reply. Yes I own the caravan the heater I had in mind was the ridgeyard model 24kw output no electric used to power it as runs off batteries for ignition also found one that runs off 5.5 kw supply. I'm guessing with that and other restrictions you mentioned it's a no go. What I'm trying to achieve are longer showering times can you suggest anything? Maybe an electric shower as I don't have to worry about tripping anything on a campsite? Or maybe an onboard water heater with larger hot water storage capacity?

Hello Lisky,

From your questions and suggested equipment, I suspect you and idea of what you want but you have not worked out what you really need.

How many people do you want to accommodate?
How many showers per hour do you want? and how long will each shower last?

Having unlimited fresh water available is a great idea, but you must also make provision for the waste water.

A cold water tank in the caravan may become a liability in winter if no one is using the van and it freezes.

The ridgeyard model 24kw water heater you suggested is not approved for use in touring caravans as it has an "Open & Force Flue Exhaust Type" . In addition its heating capacity would require a massive gas take off from the gas bottles and would exceed the ratings for the standard regulator and the caravans internal gas pipework.

The caravans water pipes are only designed to work at a maximum pressure of about 20psi anything more and joints are likely to blow. With this pressure restriction and the size of the pipes the effective maximum flow rate will be about 1 gallon (9L) min. The caravans drains are not capable of handling more that that either. Running such a heater at such restricted flow rate it may not regulate the water temperature leading hot and very hot water being produced cyclically.

The idea of using an electric shower - most showers are rated at between 8 to 10kw, where as the caravan electrical wiring is only rated to a maximum of 16A or 3.6kW

To accommodate the scale of heating power you have identified, the caravan would have to be radically modified.

 

[Lisky]

I see a lot to consider then. I have found a 3000 watt instant hot water heater for showers and others that start at 3.7 Kw. A bit of a mine field really so I think maybe the Propex Malaga 5 e gas/electric version 13 lts seems best option for the price anyway. Haha yes you are correct I know what I want to achieve but not how to achieve it. The caravan will not get cold inside as will be used as my office when vacant. So next problem onboard water storage? Capricorn shop provide an onboard auto fill water tank package 40 lts, expensive I think but saves having to source parts seperately. Only thing I would want extra is an anti freeze element fitted. You know of any other options? Sorry 2 ppl showering maybe 7 min showers not one after another. Sorry for questions just want to get this right first time around. Thx again.

 

[VicMallows]

A 3kW (or even a 3.7kW) instantaneous heater will not provide even a barely adequate shower. Even 7kW is very marginal, especially in winter. (typical domestic electric showers are 9 -10.5 kW). As Prof has stated, the maximum you can draw with any normal installation is around 3.5kW in total. (What is the electrical feed like to your caravan? .... if it is quite long, you will get quite a voltage drop if trying to draw 3.5kW and this will further reduce the output of any heater).

I think your best approach is a smallish hot water storage tank with an immersion heater of about 1kW ....in other words exactly what most caravans have! Typical caravan tanks are around 10l capacity and heat to 70C. This provides an ample shower when mixed with cold, and recovery for a second shower is about 30mins.
If you have the space, and don't need the facility to heat by gas, then 20l tanks with immersion heaters are available (try boating suppliers) .... or could even be constructed yourself from a cut-down old domestic copper cylinder

As far as the incoming water supply is concerned, you could simply use a standard aquaroll fitted with a float-valve and supplied by your well pump. (Suitable insulation of course in winter).

 

[ProfJohnL]

Unfortunately I do not have the time at the moment to go through all the equipment manufactures catalogues, but I will offer the following.

Because of the physical limitations of the design of touring caravans, such as the internal electrical wiring , the gas supply and pipe work, and the relatively flimsy construction, Touring Caravan don't really lend themselves to anything other than holiday touring or very careful full time residences.

The showers that are fitted are generally quite small so if you are looking for any sort of industrial or commercial restroom function, touring caravans are not up to it.

However if you can put up with the limitations, then you simplest option is to find touring caravan storage water heater. You already have the Cascade 2, but due to its age it may need replacing. These generally have about 9 to 10 Litre tanks and will heat water up to about 60 to 70C which is far too hot for a shower, but when mixed with cold at the mixer tap it will bring the temperature into range. Based on a typical caravan shower delivery rate of about 3 litres min, you will get a about a 6 min shower. You then have to wait for about 20 to 25 minuets for the heater to get back up to temperature. Most modern caravan water heaters allow you to use either gas heating or electric heating or both together to get a slightly faster temperature recovery. You simply can't get the same performance in terms of deliver and sustained hot water as a domestic system.

 

[Lisky]

Great thx I found one at a chandler 20litres 1.2 watts that ok?

 

[otherclive]

Great thx I found one at a chandler 20litres 1.2 watts that ok?

Think 1.2 kw might be a bit faster )

Good news though.

 

[VicMallows]

Think 1.2 kw might be a bit faster )

Or even 1.2 kW. Afford Mr Watt some respect!

 

[otherclive]

I would recommend Rinnai V65iP Propane. The water heater is very efficient and runs hot in less than a minute. The temperature setting is very precise and easy to set. Easy to use, just select the temperature and turn it on. We are very pleased with it.

I hope he’s had his water heating sorted by now as over three and a half years have passed since the question was raised.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I hope he’s had his water heating sorted by now as over three and a half years have passed since the question was raised.

Besides which the appliance mentioned is not even approved or suitable for touring caravans! - 35kW!

 

[Parksy]

I hope he’s had his water heating sorted by now as over three and a half years have passed since the question was raised.

Besides which the appliance mentioned is not even approved or suitable for touring caravans! - 35kW!

I removed the necro post which I strongly suspect came from a potential spammer testing our awareness.
I can't ban the potential spammer yet because they haven't added a spam post.
The last time that I banned a spammer based only on my suspicion I had my knuckles rapped by admin.
I was right though 😕