Purchased van 3 weeks ago..immediate problems..liable for costs??

[GeorgeandAde]

Hi.
I wont mention the make or dealer, but heres my problem.
Collected 3 year old caravan from dealer 3 weeks ago and while travelling to my storage compound (approx. 8 miles away),noticed that the hitch was "creaking" and occasional brake squeel when braking.
On reaching compound I duly cleaned the stabiliser pads with a fine sandpaper and cleaned thouroughly with brake cleaner.
Did the same with the towball on car(although its a brand new detachable swan neck and had no black paint on it when purchased).
Went away this weekend on a round trip of 50 miles.
Within 3 miles of leaving compound,creaking starts again.
On reaching campsite,I cleaned the pads and towball a further 3 times!!!
Hitched up to come home and after a couple of miles,creaking starts again and brakes sqeeling occasionaly whilst braking.
This afternoon I contacted the dealer and was informed that they would have a look at the caravan and remedy the above faults but at my cost.
It seems that the "Gold insurance"I bought at time of purchase will not cover "consumables".
O.K..I suppose thats a fair comment,but surely having had problems within a few miles of leaving the dealers,the van should have been thouroughly checked before i collected it?
The van was last serviced in January 2010 at another authorised dealers.
I feel that I have purchased something that was not fit for its purpose at the time of sale.
Could someone give me some help please on where I stand on this?
Thank you.
Adrian

 

[TD42]

I would have thougtht that if the brakes are found to be at fault it would be the dealers responsabilty as he has sold a caravan that techcnicaly is not fit for use on the road ,but that is only my personal thoughts>The CC or C&CC both have legal advice sections,failing that how about your car or home insurance policys do they give you a legal cover ?
Or contact http://www.oft.gov.uk/ for infomation

 

[Damian]

Firtsly, the towball, will have had a coating (I forget what it is called right now) but it must be rubbed down with emery paper to bright and shiny with NO coating,
The hitch pads need abrading with the same grade emery and the both things, hitch and ball cleaned wit Brake cleaner.
Sandpaper is no use at all and actually leaves sand in the hitch pads.

The van brakes WILL sqeal a bit at times, especially in the dry weather we have been having, and if the van was stood on the dealers forecourt for any period of time, rust may have formed on the inside of th edrum, it is this being rubbed off and forming dust that causes the squeal. It is more pronounced these days as no asbestos is used in the linings.
There is nothing wrong with the operation of the brakes and can safely be left until next service .
Personally I would not worry about either things, the hitch will become quiet as it settles to the new ball as long as it is kept clean.

Not fit for purpose does not even come into the scenario.

 

[GeorgeandAde]

Hi TD42 & Damien,Thanks for your replies.
Firstly Damien,Sorry,it was emery paper I used and not sandpaper(my mistake).
Although the towbar came with no apparent coating on,I did in fact clean it first with emery paper and brake fluid before use and I store it in the boot in its protective bag when not being used.
Ive read paragraphs from the Office of fair trading and a couple of points ive noted;
1.Fit for purpose
2.Free from minor defects
3.Satisfactory quality
4.Durable and safe
I would imagine Damien that you are a much more experienced caravanner than myself,and I do appreciate your comments,although having held a HGV licence for28 years,my experience on the road has taught me that strange noises etc.. must be investigated immediatly or when practically safe.
I just feel that having paid in excess of £10,000 for the caravan,I should not have to accept these potentially dangerous(just my thoughts)noises so soon.
As you say Damien,these noises (or faults as I would call them)may dissapear eventually,and I do appreciate your comments.
Adrian

 

[Damian]

To take your points one by one.
Fit for Purpose: The van met your requirements or you would not have bought it, it has the layout, number of beds, equipment levels that you were looking for.
It is in one complete piece, it is in satisfactory condition inside, all the bits and pieces work, fridge, heater, pumps , lights.
It presumably does not leak, it is draught free.
The hitch couples up ok, and does not disengage itself half way down the road, the wheels have not dropped off.

Free from minor defects: It is a 3 year old van, it would be more than reasonable for there to be some minor defects, but as you have not mentioned anything else being wrong, I assume there are none.

Quality: I assume the overall condition of the van is such that you were impressed with it enough to buy it and that you are happy with the overall quality of the van .

Durable and Safe: I assume that it is not falling apart and that you have not been gassed, electrocuted or drowned by any of the on board systems.

What you are describing as defects are simply annoying noises caused by :
Brakes, Dust in drums

Hitch , Pads and towball not scrupulously clean .

On my own brand new van it took several attempts to get the hitch to stop making noises, sometimes so loud that some people thought the van was about to burst into a thousand bits,,it didnt, and now it is silent.

Even on some vans after cleaning out the dust from drums, the brakes still squeal at times, due to the material used in the friction pads.

The points you took note of apply to new items, second hand items are allowed some leeway, but apparently you are lucky as you do not mention anything else wrong apart from the noises.

As a HGV driver at one time in my lifetime I agree that with those any noises must be checked out as soon as possible, after all it would not be appreciated to have a 32 ton rig unable to stop or lose its trailer due to failure of the hitch pin.

I work on caravans every day and have heard the exact noises you are describing and on every occasion it has been due to what I have already posted.

Try recleaning the pads and ball with 200 grade W&D and a really good clean with brake cleaner.
You will find that over a short period of time, the friction pads will polish the ball where they contact, there is that much pressure applied.
Also make sure your noseweight is correct, a heavy noseweight will exacerbate the creaking of the hitch stabiliser.

As for the brakes, as I said, personally I would not worry about them, until next service when they will be cleaned out.

However, if you still want to pay a dealer to tell you the same, thats your choice.

 

[chrisbee1]

Adrian, you need to clean the towball with brake cleaner, not brake fluid. Brake fluid is oil based.

 

[readcaravans]

i can only agree with what damian has already mentioned. he has offered some very good advice. it could be the pads in the stabiliser are too tight or contaminated. one common cause for repeated contamination is diesel fumes from the tow vehicle exhaust.

i would suggest if the service was last completed in January that a build up of brake dust is a very common cause for brake squeal on a caravan. it sounds like the hubs need stripping and cleaning out. in extreme cases of brake squeal where nothing seems to cure the sound there is a mod which can be done to the shoes under ALKO`s guidance

 

[GeorgeandAde]

Thank you chrisbee.In my first post i did type cleaner.In my second,i accidently typed fluid..lol
Damien.All your comments appreciated and taken on board.
This has taught me a lesson though.
In the future, if we do change our caravan,i will ask for a "Test run" before i commit to buy,because if i had done so with this one,i would have returned to the dealers,unhitched and walked away.
The points i took note of apply to both new and second hand."The law does not expect the same in terms of quality with regards to wear and tear,however,they must still be fit for purpose it was supplied,free from minor defects,durable and safe"
Oh well,thanks again all.
Adrian.

 

[Guest]

You are being a little bit 'sensitive' on this issue. As the van was secondhand it probably has been sitting on a forecourt for some time so the drums will be rusty. Tis will casue squeal but clear after a long run. Also dust may be present and will be morew irritating rather than a matter of concern. Again, at the next service get them blown out, or use an air jet your self.

The hitch squealing could be as much an issue of your towball as the hitch itself. If cleaning does not cure the problem then try fitting a new set of pads to the hitch. These are not that expensive.

If the van is what you expected on site then look at the positives. In rainy weather my hitch squeals but does not when it is dry. Also after a winter there is always some squealing from both hitch and brakes.

 

[ChrisUK]

My hitch creaked from new. That is new van and new (cleaned) towball. It still does sometimes after some 2000 miles. They all seem to.
Screaching brakes could well be dust, if they work does it matter? I do check my rig for brake binding from time to time, i.e. will it roll down a very slight slope. It should. Wary of this as I had a brake caliper partially seaze on my car.

 

[Guest]

I think the point trying to be made is cost? £10k's been spent and the least to be expected is the van should be fit for the road with no 'instant' problems.
Yes consumables are not covered by a warranty, but, consumables should be in good condition and usable at point of sale
As I see it, the dealer should be saying sorry and putting it right for free, seems to me a pre-sale service has been scimped or missed?!

 

[ChrisUK]

I see nothing wrong. Creaking is fairly normal, wouldn't you if your ball was gripped so tighly and then twisted. Brake squeal, but thats faily normal, to eliminate, if only temporary, it would be nessessary to clean out the drums of all dust / rust and in my old mini days perhaps champher the leading edges.

 

[GrahamPonty]

Hi Adrian,

On a previous caravan I owned the hitch used to creak every time, I now have a different caravan with the same type of hitch fitted (Alko 3004) i think on my older caravan I had the Alko 2004 fitted. On the present caravan there is no sound what so ever. Although brake cleaner is recommended I prefer to use thinners, available in small cans from Halfords. IMO it does a better job of cleaning the ball and pads and evaporates right away.

Re: The break squeel. I had my van serviced earlier this year, the breaks squeeled for a while after but soon stopped after I had traveled for a while, so as has been said already it could just be a bit of dust or rust on the drums. As long as they are not binding you should be fine apart from the squeel that is. Do the hubs get very hot after traveling if they do that could be a sign of binding. But you being a HTV driver you would know that anyway. Sorry if it sounds as if I am trying to teach you how to suck eggs!!

Hope you get it sorted soon so you are happy with your new caravan.

Regards

Graham

 

[Philspadders]

hitches do sometime groan and creak, this is quiet normal and does not mean the hitch is not fit for purpose.

The brakes may have been over adjusted and may require a little bedding in, again , if the brakes operate within accepted parameters then they are fit for puropse.

You would have to show /prove that the items are not fit for purpose, although , and i would argue with the dealer, that having bought the unit from them , and knowing your concerns , i would expect them to have a look at it f.o.c.

As for a warranty, most do not cover general wear and tear, brake pads, shoes etc.

 

[HenryB1]

Our last new van, an Abbey by Swift Group had brakes that squealed loudly from day one, very embarrassing when everyone looks round to see what is coming. After first trip I contacted dealer and they said no problem brakes would bed in with use. They were right squeal slowly went away and at no time did brakes not operate correctly. I think we have got used to disk brakes on modern vehicles but caravan still use old technology drum brakes. If your brakes and hitch damper are doing the job efficiently I would not be concerned, the problem is likely to get better with use. After 40 years towing many caravans I would see this as an annoyance rather than a safety problem.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all and Adrian.
after reading the comments above here is my slant on subject.
first van condition it is a second user van so one would not expect it to be as new and unused, immiterial of the cost involved. The van we bought was new as in "never been towed" however it had been sat on the dealers lot for months as a demonstrator with several thousand feet in and out of it with thousand of posteriors sat on the seats, ect. but we liked the van and bought it anyway induced by the huge discount and service package offered. fully expecting it to fall apart in a very short time, " I have allways been a pessimist" but to our delight nothing has gone wrong with it 4years on the van is just the same as it was and as it is now "5years old age wise and well out of any warranty" it is exactly the same as any other van we could have bought new at the full price. in the end a true bargain. the point I am trying to make is buying secondhand involves a risk as you do not know the history of the van only its "as seen condition" the price you pay will be a great deal less than the new price, if the van is in exelent condition and everything works all the better here's the rub not knowing it's history it is possilble the last owner changed the van "because the brakes quealed and the hitch creaked" some folk REALLY ARE that fussy.

next lets get to the faults here "Damian" is in my oppinion 100% correct he has the experience and expertees to know whats what just follow his and advice and clean it again. if nessasary wear some ear plugs or turn the radio up untill the noise stops " AND IT WILL" after a couple of hundred miles. but even if it doesn't the worst case senario is it will cost a few quid to change the stabiliser pads and have the brakes serviced. but believe me some noise is nomal my brakes squeal if they have been stood like on site for a week in the damp once dried out they are fine the stabiliser I have a (alko 1300) has allways creaked from day one on full lock, I actually find it reassuring as I know by this the thing is working properly. I do take on board what you say about strange noises but they are only strange when you do not know what they are, once you accept them as part of towing it leaves you free to listen for rattles and bumps that are not normal if you see what I mean.

colin

 

[TD42]

I am well aware of the probable causes of the squealing brakes & tow hitch,But my view ,as is Garry's & the OP,s is that the van should have been fault free at the time of sale & a safety,& chassis/running gear check should have been made before the hand over to the customer.Plus on the point of of complaint the dealer should have checked the van free of charge & not with the threat of charges to the customer .
Reads Im sure would have gone about things in this manner so their comment suprises me

 

[Soozeeg]

I suppose, since I don't drive and therefore don't tow, some people might think I'm not entitled to an opinion on this or even that I don't know what I'm talking about (perhaps they're right!! lol). But that never stopped me before.......! Isn't the point here that the van DIDN'T actually have what could be classed as definite faults, but that the noises identified as coming from the hitch and brakes were simply relatively minor things which would in time resolve themselves? Several members (far more experienced and knowledgeable than I) have already said something similar in this thread, including one who is a caravan service engineer and comes across this sort of thing on a regular basis and said that he himself wouldn't be worried by it, so one would assume he knows what he's talking about. I do agree that the dealer's attitude leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[GeorgeandAde]

Thank you for all of your informative replies.
Initially,I was more concerned with myself having to foot the bill for 2 (what I would call minor defects)when(as previously agreed)the pdi should have maybe been more thourough.
I am all for listening and accepting advice from people on this forum who are far more knowledgable than myself and im very grateful for this.
Damien,I have now cancelled the appointment i had with the dealer next monday morning and will take your advice(and all others too)and continue to clean the friction pads as recommended and use an air line to try and clear some of the brake dust.
I must say thought,that I find the creaking noise really spoils the towing experience for me(which I thouroughly enjoy as part and parcel of the holiday)but I will persevere.
Maybe, in time,for a small outlay,I may decide to change the pads.
Thank you all once again for your very helpful advice.
I am very grateful.
Adrian(ordering 2 sets of earplugs)lol