Reversed Polarity - a daft question

[Brian_374234561]

evening all

we're off to France in a few weeks and we believe that the site we're staying on uses the french/euro 2 pin sockets rather than the UK variety. I have a polarity tester to ensure we're safe etc, but wanted to know that, if I need to switch the live and neutral, can I simply turn the euro plug around (in other words, it only has 2 pins which I think are symetrical, therefore can you just turn it around 180 degrees?). Daft question but is there any logic in it?!

any help appreciated. Thanks, Brian

 

[audiorob]

I think you will find that the plug/socket have locators that prevent you doing this. The reason for the problem is that the difference in electrical wiring. UK sockets cut the live connection and render appliances safe. However if the polarity is reversed the neutral wire remains live... hence the danger. The french equivalent cuts both live + neutral , so either wiring cuts the connection.

More sites are using the euro connection now, and many larger sites will sell or hire the adapter anyway.

 

[Brian_374234561]

Thanks Robert

I have an adaptor (from Halfrauds) that converts to Euro style, I presume I will need to switch the wires around if the reading shows I need to?

 

[BigAl1]

Brian.

Most euro 2 pin adaptors have the outlet cable comming from one side of the plug, because of this the plug cannot be put in the other way round because the flap over the socket prevents you from doing so.

But

If your adaptor has the cable comming out of the centre of the plug then you can do just as you suggest.

And for the record, your question is very far from daft.

Al

 

[Brian_374234561]

Thanks for the feedback. My cable comes out of the side, so assuming there will be a cover, it wont work. Anyway, I have had a look at the blue bit (technical term) of the adaptor and it looks pretty straight forward to unscrew and switch the wires around, so hopefully all will be well come 25th July. Failing that, feel free to pop over to France for a beer or two and fix it for me !!

cheers, Brian

 

[ThePlotter]

Do nopt turn it around as youwill have no earth make up a reverse lead,this is on another thread but will do it again.

All you need is yourr normal mains lead (25mtr)

A french adaptor.

And make up another lead one fott long with english connectors but one end wired reversed.

So if you find the electric is reversed plug the one foot reverse lead into the van,into that the normal 25 mtr lead and this into the EHU if it Fench add the adaptor at the EHU end

 

[MagsAlan]

sorry to appear thick, but you plug the reversed end of the foot long cable into the van?

mags

 

[Brian_374234561]

Do nopt turn it around as youwill have no earth make up a reverse lead,this is on another thread but will do it again.

All you need is yourr normal mains lead (25mtr)

A french adaptor.

And make up another lead one fott long with english connectors but one end wired reversed.

So if you find the electric is reversed plug the one foot reverse lead into the van,into that the normal 25 mtr lead and this into the EHU if it Fench add the adaptor at the EHU end

thanks for the feedback, but I am more confused now. I appreciate your advice on this - I have bought a convertor (blue UK style converting into white french 2 pin style). There are 3 wires coming out of the UK blue bit, one live one neutral and one earth. I was going to swap the live and neutral over and leave the earth alone (as you suggested). Isn't this the same as you have described? Once swapped over, I plug the adaptor into the 25m UK wiring as normal and it should work? Help !

 

[Brian_374234561]

sorry to appear thick, but you plug the reversed end of the foot long cable into the van?

mags

thanks for the feedback, but I am more confused now. I appreciate your advice on this - I have bought a convertor (blue UK style converting into white french 2 pin style). There are 3 wires coming out of the UK blue bit, one live one neutral and one earth. I was going to swap the live and neutral over and leave the earth alone (as you suggested). Isn't this the same as you have described? Once swapped over, I plug the adaptor into the 25m UK wiring as normal and it should work? Help !

 

[Brian_374234561]

I'll get the posting in the right section in a moment ! doh -

anyway, thanks for the feedback, but I am more confused now. I appreciate your advice on this - I have bought a convertor (blue UK style converting into white french 2 pin style). There are 3 wires coming out of the UK blue bit, one live one neutral and one earth. I was going to swap the live and neutral over and leave the earth alone (as you suggested). Isn't this the same as you have described? Once swapped over, I plug the adaptor into the 25m UK wiring as normal and it should work? Help !

 

[JohnM20]

Brian

You need two adapters, one to convert the blue UK style (CEE17)to the French two pin plug, the second is the reversed polarity adapter.

To make a reversed polarity adapter, buy a blue CEE17 plug and a socket (the one with a flap over the end) and get a piece of cable about a foot long. Connect the live conductor (wire) in the cable to the live terminal in the socket but connect this conductor to the neutral terminal in the plug. Connect the neutral conductor to the neutral terminal in the socket and to the live terminal in the plug. The earth wire goes earth to earth.

When in France you may need to use both adapters or only one of them. Be sure to have a polarity tester with you and, for safety, don't switch anything on, even the fridge, until you have checked the polarity. Check every time you connect up regardless of the plug that can be used. The tester should show three lights if everything is OK. If only one or two lights are showing the tester should tell you what the problem is. The worst scenario would be no earth. If you get this problem check that the plugs are well connected or find another socket on the EHU (or another EHU completely).

I usually have the reversed polarity adapter connected at the van end of the cable but in practice both could be at the EHU end. Being at the 'van gives a bit more weather protection.

Although there is a change from French style plugs to UK style (actually an EU requirement I believe, to EN60309 Standard), this is very slow and many French sites still have the French style or a mixture of both. Having been to 9 different French sites a month ago, at only one could I use the blue CEE17 plug and about 50% showed reversed polarity.

Hope this helps.

John M.

 

[ThePlotter]

thanks for the feedback, but I am more confused now. I appreciate your advice on this - I have bought a convertor (blue UK style converting into white french 2 pin style). There are 3 wires coming out of the UK blue bit, one live one neutral and one earth. I was going to swap the live and neutral over and leave the earth alone (as you suggested). Isn't this the same as you have described? Once swapped over, I plug the adaptor into the 25m UK wiring as normal and it should work? Help !

You could do that but youwould then have reverse polarity adaptor that is only any use if the site has French plugs and most dont,best to do as I suggested and make the adaptor with english plugs.

 

[ThePlotter]

Bang on John I use the adaptor at the van end as it then fits inside the battery locker.

 

[Brian_374234561]

Gents

many thanks - it's finally clicked. Thanks for your help and patience!

Brian

 

[ThePlotter]

no problem glad to help

 

[Denise4]

Sorry everyone but this has not clicked with me. We are off to France next week and I have purchased a continental adapter and polarity tester and asked the man at the shop if that was all I would need. He said yes, but after reading this post it looks like I need another adapter and then I have to mess around with it. My husband is useless at all forms of DIY and he hasn't a clue about electrics so please help. Should I ring the site and ask them about the EHU? or shall I go with what I have and hope for the best. Thanks Denise (Cornwall)

 

[Oldfogey]

You already have the adapter to cope if the hookup is French Style.

You now need to worry if the hook up is reversed polarity. Use your polarity tester for this.

If it shows polarity OK, then you are alright. If it shows reversed, you need a polarity reversal adapto - a short cable with a blue plug and socket. plug this in between the hookup cable and the van, test polarity again, and you should be OK.

You will not need to mess about altering the wiring in the plugs.

Ringing the site will not help, as the French pay no attention to polarity when wiring their sockets - it could be correct on one pitch and wrong on the next!

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Have a look at this thread for pictures as well !!

http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=7&TopicID=118731&PagePosition=1&ThreadPage=2&ReturnPage=Search&search=&searchIn=

 

[rob_jax]

Hi Denise,

There are no real risks associated with what is known as "reversed polarity" - unless you start poking about inside an appliance whilst it is still plugged in.

And if you have a new caravan - then many of these have the intrinsically safe double switching circuit breakers - and then you're as safe as the continentals. Older UK caravans only used single switching - and then the problem of poking about inside a live appliance rears it head.

So people who fall into that category like to check their "polarity" and fix the "problem" before it enters the caravan - but this creates a problem for you. These so called "polarity reversing" adaptors must be a DIY project - it's illegal to sell an incorrectly wired adaptor cable.

Your comment "My husband is useless at all forms of DIY and he hasn't a clue about electrics so please help" should be used to balance the risks of not correcting the "polarity":

1. You can't buy a "polarity reversing" adaptor - it must be home made

2. You have serious doubts about your family's ability to build such an adaptor

3. There is a very small risk with polarity reversal - and one group of caravans - and only if you fiddle about with the internals of caravan appliances

4. I suggest there is a much greater risk of any home made "polarity reversal" adaptor being wired up incorrectly - and creating a much more likely and more serious problem - such as a disconnected earth or having the live connected to earth

What to do?

1. You could ignore the polarity issue - and just make sure that appliances (kettles, etc) are unplugged after use

2. You could ask a knowledgeable and electrically competent friend to wire up a polarity reversing adaptor for you - but how do you judge if they've done the job right?

Robert

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Hi Rob

You make a very good point about a reverse polarity lead possibly being incorrect although a competent person would have to be really careless to botch changing 2 wires

I always plug in my Martindale tester to the van internal 13amp socket every time I hook up in UK or abroad as it confirms the integrity of the hook up and any possible damage to the cable or the connections in it

Its not unusual on rallies in France when people have trouble with hook ups to find broken wires in the hook up lead or just loose screws on the terminals

 

[rob_jax]

Hi John,

It's from personal experience...

Three years ago in the Loire, enjoying the life, etc., and late one afternoon a couple from the UK arrived and set up next to us.

They went through the routine of testing the "polarity" - plugged in the "adaptor" and everything went quiet... Our power was down, and a few other people came out to inspect and kick their power bollards as well.

OK I thought, summer storms occasionally disrupt power, so switch the fridge over to gas. And after an hour or so the site "electrician" came round trying to find the cause of the problem - and yes - it was the newly arrived couple and their DIY adapter.

The guy had totally misunderstood what was required. He'd rotated all the wires by one position - live to neutral, neutral to earth, and earth to live... Apparently it was the first time he'd used it, and it really was very efficient at taking out part of the camp-site...

Robert

 

[WatsonJohnG]

You certainly meet all sorts

We were asked to help a guy on one rally in Brittany and got there just in time

He had a brand new outfit and had plugged in to the site supply first

OK you can get away with doing that but on the other end of his hook up lead he had a 13amp UK household plug that he was about to plug into the caravan awning 13amp socket in order to power up the caravan

In his locker still sealed in the polythene was the new mains hook up lead as supplied by Avondale

 

[Transporter]

You certainly meet all sorts

We were asked to help a guy on one rally in Brittany and got there just in time

He had a brand new outfit and had plugged in to the site supply first

OK you can get away with doing that but on the other end of his hook up lead he had a 13amp UK household plug that he was about to plug into the caravan awning 13amp socket in order to power up the caravan

In his locker still sealed in the polythene was the new mains hook up lead as supplied by Avondale

That's so gormless on so many levels, but I'm not particularly surprised. I'm an (IT) technical writer by trade, so I know about bozos like that. They're the ones who don't know, or care, how to go about using an instruction book.

Having said that, the example you give probably indicates somebody who doesn't know, or care, how to read at all.

Motto: RTFB -- Read the #@&%ing Book.