Saab in this month's mag

[Petemate]

Nice little write-up this month regarding the Swedish Sofas!
My take on this. I am on my second 9-3 150 bhp Sportwagon; changed from previous manual to auto due to bad arthritis left ankle. Anyway, on we go. The car is absolutely brilliant for towing. It is the most stable tow car I have ever driven, and pulls our 2005 Sterling Eccles Topaz very well. Economy not special, well, it is an auto after all and I cruise at the maximum allowed so I suppose an overall towing mpg of 25-28 mpg is OK.
Now there have been mixed opinions on many a forum regarding the reliability of these DTH engines. Both my Saabs have been utterly reliable. I remain firmly convinced that the secret here is both top-grade fuel and oil. Best oil for these lumps appears to be Mobil 1 ESP 0W/40. I have, over many thousands of miles with these motors, never had any EGR problems. The previous Saab showed no gumming-up in the EGR when I took it apart after 10k miles of ownership, and I haven't bothered with this one as the car is going like a rocket with no signs of regen for the dreaded DPF. Regarding fuel, I will not use supermarket fuel under any circumstances, using preferably Shell, followed in order by BP and Esso.
Good oil and fuel IMHO keeps the EGRs and swirl flaps nice and clean.
I understand from fellow Saab forum members that the 9-5 cars are more comfortable than the 9-3; well, they must be good then as the 9-3 does it for me.
Apart from a lottery win, which would get me a Skoda Superb estate, I cannot think of anything to replace this one with. I wouldn't mind a TTid, but the availability of Saab-specific parts over a long period would possibly put me off. We will see.
Happy towing all
Pete

 

[Saprolith]

I'm planning on towing with my 9-3SW 1.8t (with Hirsch) from next year so it was great to see my towcar appear in the first caravan mag I've ever bought and get a great write up to boot.
I've also got two Saabs and apart from one broken spring fixed when it was under warranty and a £2 seal on the power steering pump they have been bullet proof after close to 100,000 miles. But they are both petrol and owned privately, I'd not have a diesel due to all the reported issues with dmfws and dpfs.
They have been great cars and were a great company, my wife and I went ice rallying with the Saab Performance Team in 2011 at Jukkasjarvi ( I won... cough) and my wife won most improved racer, -35 on a frozen lake with spiked tyres and 4wd during the day, vodka and the northern lights at night, Sweden is amazing !
I'm planning on fitting Grayston Spring Assisters on the back whilst towing a Sterling Eccles Sport 554 just to prevent sag which I predict based on me towing a big trailer, although I didn't know about nose weights then. Good to know it tows well for you, how much does the Topaz weigh ?

 

[LizziePope]

We're glad you enjoyed it, Pete!

 

[Petemate]

Hi Saprolith
Great to hear from a fellow 'Swedish Sofa' owner. The Topaz MTPLM is given as 1318. We have the usual stuff in there, it has a mover, and the awning is aboard so, with stuff like gas bottles, crockery, clothes etc it is probably around 1250-1275. The Saab pulls it so well I could easily lose my licence. When we get going on each trip as soon as I am on the open road it goes into cruise at just over 60 (true 60 GPS) and it is great, so relaxing to tow with. I admit that the previous one, a manual, was not so easy to use with cruise control as I needed to drop into 5th on steep hills like Gore Hill near Newbury. As I said earlier I wouldn't mind one of the 180BHP TTid ones (they have lots more toys) but this will do nicely for now. One of the biggest attributes of the 9-3 is its weight and thus towing stability, helped also by the short rear overhang. Extremely stable under all conditions.
Pete

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Peter

Over the years I have had a succession of Saabs, starting with a 1959 93 (3 cylinder 2 stroke) a 1960 93 (for spares) I drove a 1974 99 combi coupe followed by 1976 99 Turbo coupe a 1986 9000i 1989 9000s 2.3L and my last Saab was 2001 9-3 2.2 Tid. There have been other cars in between, but I always came back to Saabs for the sheer comfort of the driving position, and the feeling of solidity.

I cannot claim my Saabs have bee bullet proof, there have been smatterings of issues but non of them bank breakers except my last diesel 9-3, which used a GM derived engine, with undiagnosed starting problems, apparently a common feature of this engine across GM as well.

I was discouraged from going with Saab again, as I had noticed a steep rise in the cost of spares for since the closure of the manufacturer, and commercial advice from the trade suggest these cost and availability issues are definitely increasing. There were many reports of the post 2004 models 9-3 and 9-5s suffered from manufacturers shortages as GM tightened the purse strings at Saab, and that did impact on the marques reliability, so sadly I had to turn away from my most prefered make and look elsewhere - ending up with VW, and that is another story.

I towed with the 99's 9000's and 9-3 and all were fine tow cars. The 99 turbo was probably the worst because of the way the turbo kicked in, introducing wheel spin and torque steer, problems that were better controlled in later models. All were well capable of achieving the legal limits.

Stability was also good, BUT that is more dependant on how you load and drive the outfit than just of weight and overhangs.

Spring assisters should not be necessary, if you suspect you have a depressed rear end, then first check your loading and then check to see if anything is worn or broken. It is all too easy to overload. Remember that spring assisters do not increase a cars load capacity (that is set in stone by the car manufacturer) and their use use is only resolves personal cosmetic preferences. They may actually adversely affect the handling and safety of a vehicle, and as its is a modification it must be reported to your insurers.

 

[RogerL]

Deleted

 

[Petemate]

ProfJohnL
Sorry to hear you had problems with the GM derived diesel engine. I remain convinced that given top grade fuel and oil is the key to reliability with these engines. Of course, it also depends on the treatment given to the cars during the previous owners. Both of mine were company cars and were apparently used mainly on motorway trips, and Mobil 1 used on all the services according to the records. Fuel of course I cannot vouch for but I would suspect that branded would have been used given the meticulous service history.
I am hoping that any need for Saab-specific parts will not be giving me problems, there being a few good used parts suppliers; one very good one of which I have experienced excellent service is Neo Brothers. (they are avid Saab fans, and have competition cars) They were very helpful when I experienced air con problems with my first Saab; with DIY I saved myself a great deal of expense. The problems could have occurred with any other make, and I was grateful that I could replace the deepest buried dash part (evaporator) easily without complete dash removal as is necessary on some other makes. Neo sold me a very low maileage complete heater box with matrix, evaporator and all the stepper motors, for only £50.
Regarding the rear end, spring assisters do not make any difference - I have tried them (the Graystons I have are specified for the 9-3 and coincidentally were the same part number for my previous Rover 45 Tdi and the earlier Focus estate!) The Saabs with Sport suspension sit a bit low but are firm and thus the caravan's front end is slightly low but for aerodynamics and stability is recommended and it is something I prefer. I load the caravan correctly, and put as much in it within the payload, and whatever goes in the car is placed as far as possible in the rear. Handling is superb. (sorry Skoda...)
Happy towing!
Best Regards
Pete

 

[JonnyG]

hi prof. i do think you need to be far more specific when stating problems with the Gm derived engine... As there are indeed 3 generations of engines.. firstly there is the Gm derived 2.0/2.2tdi from 1997, then there is the 1.9 shared Gm/Fiat derived engine from circa 2004. and then there is the Gm derived 2.0l from circa 2008.....the original Gm derived circa 1997 i had one chain cam. ran brilliantly for 180k...of course no doubt like any engine it had its fault but as an advide of checking before i buy never herd it was renowned as a non starter.again 100s of thousands of these diesel engines wee sold i sometimes wonder about the maths. words are easy, proper mathematical facts are not.. then there is the fiat/Gm engine in 1.9 guise had plenty of fiats and frankly even Gm wouldn't have risked collaborating with Fiat on an engine if it was problematic.as basically it was a fiat engine.having said that i use the word collaborating,as not to offend any die hard GM fans.. then lastly as that collaboration came to an end we had the GM 2.0l diesel from circa 2008/9..back on topic.. never had a saab but the last generation using the 2.0l derived GM in 160bhp and 180 bhp seem nicely priced on the second hand, market that i am seriously considering one ...

 

[Dustydog]

The two stroke Saab had a brilliant gearbox extra. A freewheel.
Later models used the GM Cavalier floor pan which had a nasty habit of cracking bulkheads.
An old friend took his 95 to over 200k before he pxd it.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Jonny,

I referred to a 2001 9-3 2.2 Tid. which is a GM derived turbo diesel which was fitted to Saab 9-3 a point you will have seen in my post.
The same engine was fitted to multiple GM vehicles, and there are many reports on the www of undiagnosed starting issues with this engine. It cost me over a grand on diagnosis and tests but the problem could not be identified or cured.

 

[RogerL]

GM diesels are a mish-mash of unrelated engines, mostly from other suppliers - like Peugeot, BMW, VM Motori, Isuzu and Fiat as well as some developed in-house.

In truth, GM have never developed or used a decent diesel - other than the truck diesels from Detroit Deisels, no longer part of GM.

At this point in time, GM are relying on JTD designs inherited under their Powertrain alliance with Fiat which are now being produced independently from Fiat.

Sadly you only need to compare GM's ownership of Saab with Ford's ownership of Jaguar to realise that they would never survive.