Safefill Fill Ups. Dave Croft Garage Near Chesterfield Gone

[Buckman]

Yes that will apply to existing products, but new caravans are increasingly going to need to look at how to reduce reliance on gas. We have begun to see it already, some caravans now have an electric hob, and there has been a USA proposal for all electric off grid caravans that have their own large storage battery, which can also assist an EV towcar.

Small beginnings, but mighty Oaks begin with a tiny acorn. And if you look at the way the EV car market has grown over the last year, it might surprise many how quickly EV's are becoming accepted partly due to the penalties of cost and accessibility are falling for EV's and increasing for ICE .

The rate of change towards an electric future in so many areas ont just EV's is likely to be faster than even I suspect.

Every little bit of effort to reduce our impact is valuable, but even if we have already made some changes, it should be a goal to look and achieve more if we can.

If EVs did help the environment it would be a way forward, but until then....

 

[Johnb]

Safefill only makes sense if you use a lot of gas. If you are always on Ehu it doesn’t make economic sense.

No argument there of course! In fact if always on EHU I'd invest in an induction set-up and not carry any gas.

When I first bought Safefill (10 years ago now) it made me feel better knowing I was not being ripped off by Calor.

In addition at well under £10 for a fill from empty the use of gas in colder weather made economic sense and with sites now setting up metered consumption even more so. Of course, Germany particularly and other parts of Europe have metered electricity for years. I have universal connectors to use most European pumps.

As a caravanner who prefers not to run out of gas the fact that for any trip I choose I can leave full is a massive benefit and I presume the loss accepted when part filled bottles are exchanged should be considered.

But yes, setting up Safefill is not cheap. Nor are caravans. Full tank of fuel well over £100 at the moment.
Without trying to be contentious I can afford to indulge my whim and follow my preferences.

As for the fear of progress leaving me behind with a redundant Safefill bottle then I'll take my chance. Same as I did when I bought my current car 2 years ago - Santa Fe - 2.2 CRDi.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If EVs did help the environment it would be a way forward, but until then....

What are you trying to suggest?

 

[Buckman]

What are you trying to suggest?

Not suggesting anything. Just plain fact!

 

[otherclive]

Not suggesting anything. Just plain fact!

Why do you think EVs don’t help the environment? Surely improved air quality is a big plus point?

 

[RogerL]

Why do you think EVs don’t help the environment? Surely improved air quality is a big plus point?

The improved air quality is "only" at point of use - globally, the energy and natural resources used over the whole life of an EV (manufacture, use, disposal) is no better than modern IC cars - given the dependence on Chinese manufacturing, possibly worse.

 

[otherclive]

The improved air quality is "only" at point of use - globally, the energy and natural resources used over the whole life of an EV (manufacture, use, disposal) is no better than modern IC cars - given the dependence on Chinese manufacturing, possibly worse.

I think that hypothesis has been well and truly scotched numerous times in the Forum. At the moment only 26% of our electricity is coming from gas plants the rest from non C02 emitting sources. So anyone running an EV is overall emitting less CO2 than even the cleanest ICE.

 

[RogerL]

I think that hypothesis has been well and truly scotched numerous times in the Forum. At the moment only 26% of our electricity is coming from gas plants the rest from non C02 emitting sources. So anyone running an EV is overall emitting less CO2 than even the cleanest ICE.

There's no doubt that by just looking at running costs you can create a favourable picture - but the initial manufacturing costs and end-of-life disposal costs need to be taken into account and they have a large carbon footprint.

Climate change is a global issue, not a uk-specific one - so you need to look at the global picture for energy generation - with all western economies heavily dependent on Chinese manufacturing, it's the Chinese coal-powered energy creating a big part of the global problem.

 

[Buckman]

The improved air quality is "only" at point of use - globally, the energy and natural resources used over the whole life of an EV (manufacture, use, disposal) is no better than modern IC cars - given the dependence on Chinese manufacturing, possibly worse.

Also they are largely dependent on fossil fuel to get from A to B!

 

[otherclive]

Also they are largely dependent on fossil fuel to get from A to B!

But in getting from A to B the greater efficiency of an EV means it uses less fossil fuel. But since this thread was about filling gas bottles you have successfully diverted it so I’m out.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Not suggesting anything. Just plain fact!

Please reread all the other threads where you have suggested the same thing, and where numerous times and with strong widely based evidence your "facts" have been comprehensively shown to be wrong.

I strongly suggest if you want to pursue this line of debate yet again, start another thread, and rather than just make unsubstantiated statements, provide the evidence or the links to reliable sources.

 

[Buckman]

But in getting from A to B the greater efficiency of an EV means it uses less fossil fuel. But since this thread was about filling gas bottles you have successfully diverted it so I’m out.

Not guilty this time m'lud!

 

[Buckman]

Please reread all the other threads where you have suggested the same thing, and where numerous times and with strong widely based evidence your "facts" have been comprehensively shown to be wrong.

I strongly suggest if you want to pursue this line of debate yet again, start another thread, and rather than just make unsubstantiated statements, provide the evidence or the links to reliable sources.

Perhaps you are the one that needs to rethink the evidence. Not sure why you brought it up as the thread was about refilling Safefill bottles and not Evs or shortage of gas. Enjoy!

 

[SteveW]

Are you aware that you can buy adaptors so that you cna fill up the bottles anywhere on the continent and probably cheaper?

Thanks. Yes I have an adapter set. Given often poor availability of LPG I saw that as a bit of a last resort though. I’ve just been on a trip to Norway total about 3 weeks, even though it was June there was clearly still a potential need for heating plus of course cooking and hot water. We did not know at the time whether a lot of this would turn out to be pretty off grid, though as it turned out we found more EHU facilities than we expected. Whatever, I think two bottles would have covered the trip easily avoiding any chasing around for LPG refilling. Looking at Norway in the Stavanger area for example I found only one promising LPG garage on G maps etc. I think that in practice we would only need to refill if going on longer trips, at present not likely, nice to know it’s a possibility though,

Steve

 

[Buckman]

Thanks. Yes I have an adapter set. Given often poor availability of LPG I saw that as a bit of a last resort though. I’ve just been on a trip to Norway total about 3 weeks, even though it was June there was clearly still a potential need for heating plus of course cooking and hot water. We did not know at the time whether a lot of this would turn out to be pretty off grid, though as it turned out we found more EHU facilities than we expected. Whatever, I think two bottles would have covered the trip easily avoiding any chasing around for LPG refilling. Looking at Norway in the Stavanger area for example I found only one promising LPG garage on G maps etc. I think that in practice we would only need to refill if going on longer trips, at present not likely, nice to know it’s a possibility though,

Steve

It must have been a very interesting trip doing Norway. What was your route to get to Norway itself? Actually if you opened another thread regarding that trip and campsites, I am sure others will also find it interesting.

 

[Parksy]

This topic has degenerated into the same old pro versus anti electric vehicle argument that's regularly regurgitated by the same protagonists at every opportunity.
I dislike restricting discussions to insist that they stay strictly on topic, but this constant sniping between the pro and anti EV supporters is tiresome, repetetive and has to stop.
This topic is now locked.
To prevent the possibility of further topics being locked for the same reason, the next time that this same argument crops up in a topic about a different matter, the entire topic will be taken down without further explanation or warnings, and repeat offenders may be face suspension from this forum.
For those wishing to continue this pointless argument, start a topic about it to gauge the response, or lack of it, or buy an EV or don't buy one, we don't care.
Combative statements and point scoring comments will be deleted from now on.