Satnav Waypoints Rant

Jul 22, 2014
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It is odd that most people (and salesmen) do not rate or seem totally unaware of the "waypoint" feature of satnavs, which not all models have. Ie the ability to set a route to pass through defined intermediate points.

I have a 2005 satnav (Destinator) with this feature, fairly easy to use. But bought a Mio for my wife last Xmas and assumed that being nearly a decade later it would have more features, not less. Instead I found it cut down in every way, including no waypoint feature! I did ask the assistant (Halfords, Bath) about it but he hadn't a clue; but surely, I thought, any modern Satnav must have waypoints. After all, software costs nothing once developed, and processor power and memory are now cheap as chips.

So we sold the Mio on ebay and went shopping again. After hours of research on the web, I had an inkling but not certainty that the TomTom XXL did waypoints. This was roughly the conversation in Halfords, Cymbran, with a salesman I believe was the manager :-

ME: Can you set waypoints on that TomTom XXL?
SALESMAN: Of course sir, they all do [on an up-market Garmin demo model, he sets a route to London. Literally "London", the simplest possible challenge to a satnav. Do I really look that dumb? As if anyone would need a satnav to find London. He thinks "waypoint" means "destination".]
ME: No. Suppose I want to go from here to Ipswich but via Swindon-Oxford-Cambridge, rather than the obvious M4-M25-A12. Can you show me that?
SALESMAN (patronisingly) : You can set it to avoid motorways if you don't like them.
ME: But I do want to use the M4 as far as Swindon
SALESMAN: If you know what way to go sir, why do you need a satnav?

I didn't try to explain to this idiot that, while I might have a general route preference, I would not know every roundabout exit, twist and turn along the way. He could not see any point in a satnav except to find the fastest route from A to B. Perhaps most people wouldn't (so who buys these more-than-basic models?).

ME: Can you demonstrate on that TomTom XXL in the glass case ?
SALESMAN: No. It is not part of our contract to demonstrate anything but this Garmin. [!!]

The itinerary feature is not just needed for my route whims. Some fleet managers of delivery lorries like to set up daily itineraries for their drivers. For planning a route with a caravan it is surely essential if you want to avoid shorter and quicker routes but which are narrow. And I don't just mean "avoid unclassified roads" - some A-B roads around here (like Monmouth High street) are single track in places for a caravan. Yet it is extremely hard to find out if particular satnavs allow itineraries. Eg TomTom's website does not make it clear.

I ended up buying a TomTom XXL not from Halfords, and yes it does allow waypoints, though buried in its menus and non-intuitive, and it does not re-assure you verbally when it passes one, as my Destinator does.
 
Jul 11, 2006
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DrZhivago said:
It is odd that most people (and salesmen) do not rate or seem totally unaware of the "waypoint" feature of satnavs, which not all models have. Ie the ability to set a route to pass through defined intermediate points.

I have a 2005 satnav (Destinator) with this feature, fairly easy to use. But bought a Mio for my wife last Xmas and assumed that being nearly a decade later it would have more features, not less. Instead I found it cut down in every way, including no waypoint feature! I did ask the assistant (Halfords, Bath) about it but he hadn't a clue; but surely, I thought, any modern Satnav must have waypoints. After all, software costs nothing once developed, and processor power and memory are now cheap as chips.

So we sold the Mio on ebay and went shopping again. After hours of research on the web, I had an inkling but not certainty that the TomTom XXL did waypoints. This was roughly the conversation in Halfords, Cymbran, with a salesman I believe was the manager :-

ME: Can you set waypoints on that TomTom XXL?
SALESMAN: Of course sir, they all do [on an up-market Garmin demo model, he sets a route to London. Literally "London", the simplest possible challenge to a satnav. Do I really look that dumb? As if anyone would need a satnav to find London. He thinks "waypoint" means "destination".]
ME: No. Suppose I want to go from here to Ipswich but via Swindon-Oxford-Cambridge, rather than the obvious M4-M25-A12. Can you show me that?
SALESMAN (patronisingly) : You can set it to avoid motorways if you don't like them.
ME: But I do want to use the M4 as far as Swindon
SALESMAN: If you know what way to go sir, why do you need a satnav?

I didn't try to explain to this idiot that, while I might have a general route preference, I would not know every roundabout exit, twist and turn along the way. He could not see any point in a satnav except to find the fastest route from A to B. Perhaps most people wouldn't (so who buys these more-than-basic models?).

ME: Can you demonstrate on that TomTom XXL in the glass case ?
SALESMAN: No. It is not part of our contract to demonstrate anything but this Garmin. [!!]

The itinerary feature is not just needed for my route whims. Some fleet managers of delivery lorries like to set up daily itineraries for their drivers. For planning a route with a caravan it is surely essential if you want to avoid shorter and quicker routes but which are narrow. And I don't just mean "avoid unclassified roads" - some A-B roads around here (like Monmouth High street) are single track in places for a caravan. Yet it is extremely hard to find out if particular satnavs allow itineraries. Eg TomTom's website does not make it clear.

I ended up buying a TomTom XXL not from Halfords, and yes it does allow waypoints, though buried in its menus and non-intuitive, and it does not re-assure you verbally when it passes one, as my Destinator does.

The annoying bit is that most will only accept one waypoint - if you try to enter a second it deletes the first.
I take the view that a quick look at an atlas will show me the main roads and then just use the machine as a streetmap when I get there.

Incidently, don't know about any others but I find TT very annoying. If you ask it to go from A to B it will find its preferred route then no matter where you go it will do its damnedest to get you back onto that route. I live in Harrogate and used to go to St Helens. The M60 is dire in the mornings so I used to go A59 to Skipton, A56 to Colne, then M65/M6/M58/M57 - further but an easier drive. I would be past Blackburn before it gave up trying to get me back onto the M62! If however I stopped at Colne and reset the route it would take me the way I wanted to go. Doh!
 
Jul 9, 2013
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I now use Navfree on my Android rather than TomTom - I have a TT in the car but I haven't used it for years, the battery has failked so I need to keep it permanently plugged in when in use and we have enough other devices that we need to charge in the car without that as well!

For a while, TT stopped allowing the entry of favourites or destinations in Lat/Long format, which considering that's how the unit stores the data, is astonishing! My original TT allowed entry of multiple waypoints along a route, but nothing i've had recently does.

I suppose a way round it is to enter all the waypoints as favourites, then navigate to the first one - when you get near, navigate to the second one, and so on. But when older units had this feature, why remove it?

It's pretty disappointing that even the in-store demonstrators don't understand the terminology or the features of the units they're meant to be promoting, but it seems to be pretty standard these days: I've recently had frustrating discussions with a car salesman (in a Ford main dealer) and an "iPad and and Tablets Specialist" in a well-known high street store, both caused by the fact that they knew less about the product they were meant to be advising me on than I did.
 
Aug 11, 2010
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top range sat navs do have the ability to multi may points,as do many not so top of the range my phones co pilot all of £35 can do multi way points and give 3 option routes to start with,apparently this function is also available these days on many sat navs too but not all.. sat navs are like any other type of goods, the more functions you want the more up market a model you need to buy..and really with the internet its pretty easy to do the research prior to any purchase..
 
Feb 4, 2014
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OOOOO, makes my brain hurt trying to get my head round these technological gizmos. I am in my mid 60s, I have always managed to get from A to B using a road map, and the beauty of the atlas is that it doesn't need recharging!
 
Mar 2, 2010
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CyberCynth said:
OOOOO, makes my brain hurt trying to get my head round these technological gizmos. I am in my mid 60s, I have always managed to get from A to B using a road map, and the beauty of the atlas is that it doesn't need recharging!

Maps are great til you get to find your way to a street or supermarket etc,abroad its almost impossible.I plan the route on a map and then use the satnav to do the last few miles.My TomTom via135 is almost indispensable to me
 
Jul 9, 2013
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I usually check the map and memorise the route for most of the way, then just use the satnav once I start to get into unfamiliar territory so I don't miss any turnings. But I tend to keep the satnav turned on all the way, so that if I hit traffic I can quickly check whether there's an easy alternative or whether I should stick with the road I'm on.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Well, I've just got back from my first ever serious caravan journey, helped by the satnav!

Gozza wrote :- a way round it is to enter all the waypoints as favourites, then navigate to the first one - when you get near, navigate to the second one, and so on

I would not like to stop every time I passed a waypoint to set the next one. For one thing there would not necessarily be a safe place to stop especially with a caravan, and my "co-driver" refuses to have anything to do with navigation.

My journey was from home near Chepstow to The Lean near Leominster, mostly on bumpy, winding, hilly secondary A-roads, B-roads and some unclassified. Beforehand I had gone over those parts of the route I did not know on Streetview, and I decided to avoid certain bits by doing minor diversions that a satnav would not have taken unless I had set a waypoint on that diversion. I also set waypoints at several potential lay-bys for eating our sandwich lunch. Lay-bys in Herefordshire are rare as hen's teeth, and around mid day most big enough to take a caravan are already filled with a jugggernaught for the same reason, so you don't want to miss any chances. So I ended up with about ten waypoints in about 50 miles.

CyberCynth wrote :- I have always managed to get from A to B using a road map, and the beauty of the atlas is that it doesn't need recharging!

Trouble is that maps need reading and page-turning, and unless you have a photographic memory this must be done as you go. That was OK when I used to have a 10-year-old son in the co-driver's seat; he did it. I used to do serious cycling, like circular trips of up to 120-150 miles. I developed a notation that could show a trip of say 25 junction turns on half a postcard that I had in my back pocket, and before satnavs I used this method when driving too. That I could glance at without stopping. Incidentally, I don't look at my satnav, but just go by the voice.

Gozza wrote :- I usually check the map and memorise the route for most of the way, then just use the satnav once I start to get into unfamiliar territory so I don't miss any turnings.

You have a better memory than I have. But even if I could remember that I should go along the A4103 until I turn right onto the A4110, it helps hugely to be told when the turning is 500 yards ahead, especially when there is a traffic lane to get into. I find that the locals never forgive anyone who finds themselves in the wrong lane. So you are dead right about the turnings.
 
Jul 9, 2013
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DrZhivago said:
You have a better memory than I have. But even if I could remember that I should go along the A4103 until I turn right onto the A4110, it helps hugely to be told when the turning is 500 yards ahead, especially when there is a traffic lane to get into. I find that the locals never forgive anyone who finds themselves in the wrong lane. So you are dead right about the turnings.
Most of the caravanning trips we go on, the first fifty-odd miles are on familiar roads as we usually head off in the same direction!

And yes, I always keep the sound turned off on mine, as the irritating voice keeps Mrs Gozza awake...which might give you an idea why I don't rely on her to navigate!
 
Mar 2, 2010
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Been playing with TYRE to import waypoints to TomTom,you can have hundreds of waypoints and overlay fuel,caravan sites etc to route,run through it on computer then check it on google earth before you load it to your satnav,its then supposed to travel to destination through waypoints,trying it out this weekend.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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All very interesting and I'm glad not to be alone with this frustration. The only way to set waypoints into the Snooper appears to be to use Multiroute, but the thing insists on having a full address. Fine if you remember to delete the intermediate stages before you get to them - say 20km. out - or you find yourself being directed to whatever address you have put in, and once within this loop not easy to get out and cancel the stage.

I have also found the only way to put in a junction as a waypoint is to find it on the map, give it a name and save it as a favourite. There ought to be an easier way - all suggestions gratefully received.

Recent trip back from Provence showed Snooper to be generally OK but given to totally irrational routing from time to time - very narrow roads even when set to Car+Caravan and when much more obvious routes were easily available.

I am often reminded of some of my flying friends from earlier days who were trained to rely implicitly on their flight instruments. Since I was then involved with designing and making them this was a very salutary lesson .I wonder if sat-nav designers should be let loose with a large caravan in the mountain roads of France to sharpen them up a bit ?
 
Jul 15, 2008
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...on my Garmin you can add as many waypoints (which Garmin call viapoints) as you like. :)

You set up a route to a final destination and allow the unit to finalise the route.
You then set up another destination which is to be your viapoint.......the unit will then ask if this is to be a viapoint or a new destination.........you choose viapoint.........it will then plot a new route to your destination via the viapoint.
You can do this as many times as you like.
The unit will announce your arrival at each viapoint as you drive the route. :whistle:
 
Jul 11, 2006
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Nah. If you have a TT go digging on the web and find alternative voices. John Cleese is quite funny (if confusing) and Ozzie Osbourne is even funnier but make sure you use the clean version if anyone is in the car with you!
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Thanks Gaffer, sounds just what I want to do. Do you know if this feature is on all models of Garmin or perhaps just on the more up market ?
 

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