Scottish government at it again

[Buckman]

The latest assist applications already on the market are able to identify and read speed limit signs so there is no need to rely on sat nav input.

However I would think that the majority of cars on UK roads do not have that facility therefore the satnav speed is more accurate than the car's speedo.

 

[Dustydog]

M

During a trial, the A9 between Perth and Inverness on single carriageway stretches were made 50 for HGV and retained the 60 for cars - the KSI rate dropped during the trial

I’ll stand corrected Roger but last September the 50 applied to all vehicles . Certainly the only speed signs were the big 50 ones,.

I took this from the S ott ish Governments site

The consultation runs until Wednesday 5 March 2025. It invites feedback on proposals to lower the national speed limit on single carriageway roads from 60 mph to 50 mph and to increase speed limits for goods vehicles over 7.5 tonnes on single-carriageways to from 40 mph to 50 mph and dual carriageways from 50 mph to 60mph.

But it may not have been enacted??

 

[Lutz]

They rely on the signs being accurate - during the trial of 50mph for HGVs on the A9, some car satnavs were picking up the signs and reducing speed to 50mph - signage in Scotland could be an issue as they no longer use the National Speed Limit sign but show numerical limits - if they change the limit, there's a lot of signs and repeaters to be changed.

If the signs aren't in line with the national speed limit signs, are they strictly legal?
I seem to recall reading that in the UK, red traffic lights must carry the word "STOP". If they don't and one was caught jumping the lights, one could contest prosecution on the grounds that the traffic lights didn't comply with the requirement.

 

[RogerL]

M

I’ll stand corrected Roger but last September the 50 applied to all vehicles . Certainly the only speed signs were the big 50 ones,.

I took this from the S ott ish Governments site

The consultation runs until Wednesday 5 March 2025. It invites feedback on proposals to lower the national speed limit on single carriageway roads from 60 mph to 50 mph and to increase speed limits for goods vehicles over 7.5 tonnes on single-carriageways to from 40 mph to 50 mph and dual carriageways from 50 mph to 60mph.

But it may not have been enacted??

That consultation has only just started - at present the speed limits on the A9 single carriageway between Perth and Inverness are 50 for HGVs and 60 for cars - if you thought it was 50 for all vehicles, then the signage is confusing

 

[RogerL]

If the signs aren't in line with the national speed limit signs, are they strictly legal?
I seem to recall reading that in the UK, red traffic lights must carry the word "STOP". If they don't and one was caught jumping the lights, one could contest prosecution on the grounds that the traffic lights didn't comply with the requirement.

Under devolution, Scotland can set it's own legislation on speed limits .

I'm not aware of red lights needing to say STOP - they haven't done that fordecades.

 

[Lutz]

Under devolution, Scotland can set it's own legislation on speed limits .

I'm not aware of red lights needing to say STOP - they haven't done that fordecades.

I admit my recollection is somewhat dated. I was something that I read many years ago, but I am certain that back then the word "STOP" had to be displayed on red traffic lights.

There cannot be any objection to Scotland having its own speed limits but one could expect to be made aware of any specific signage as one enters the country.

 

[RogerL]

I admit my recollection is somewhat dated. I was something that I read many years ago.

There cannot be any objection to Scotland having its own speed limits but one could expect to be made aware of any specific signage as one enters the country.

The signage is normally obvious - instead of the National Speed Limit (NSL) sign used in England, Scotland uses 70 on motorways and dual carriageways and 60 on single carriageways - lower speed limits for vehicle classes aren't normally signed, eg the towing limits of 60/50.

 

[Lutz]

The gov.uk website still shows a common signage for England, Scotland and Wales.
So long as the sign is still round, with a white background and a red border, for law enforcement purposes it is surely irrelevant what the number displayed on it is and the statement that it makes obvious, even to the uninitiated. I presume that a speed limit sign has to be of a certain size and the mph limit displayed on it has to be in a certain font, but that it would comply with requirements regardless of what mph value is actually shown, so its not really something that is specific to Scotland.

 

[JTQ]

The thought of someone being able to follow my every move makes me shudder. Big brother is watching you. No thanks. Not for me.
It's the same with these supermarket apps where the supermarket can trace my purchasing habits. I find it awful. No way is an app like that going to come on my mobile phone.

Avoiding being tracked might be a challenge, does not even having a mobile on itself leave a witness, then there are all the CTV cameras, certainly the latter in the UK.

 

[otherclive]

The gov.uk website still shows a common signage for England, Scotland and Wales.
So long as the sign is still round, with a white background and a red border, for law enforcement purposes it is surely irrelevant what the number displayed on it is and the statement that it makes obvious, even to the uninitiated. I presume that a speed limit sign has to be of a certain size and the mph limit displayed on it has to be in a certain font, but that it would comply with requirements regardless of what mph value is actually shown, so its not really something that is specific to Scotland.

You regularly get temporary speed limit signs that are iaw your criteria sited at the begin roadworks or other works where traffic speed needs to come down for safety reasons. Rarely is there a sign placed to raise the limit back to the norm.

 

[RogerL]

The gov.uk website still shows a common signage for England, Scotland and Wales.
So long as the sign is still round, with a white background and a red border, for law enforcement purposes it is surely irrelevant what the number displayed on it is and the statement that it makes obvious, even to the uninitiated. I presume that a speed limit sign has to be of a certain size and the mph limit displayed on it has to be in a certain font, but that it would comply with requirements regardless of what mph value is actually shown, so its not really something that is specific to Scotland.

The National Speed Limit sign, round with a white background and black diagonal stripe, is used in England & Wales but not in Scotland - so in England the National Speed limit could be changed by regulation without altering any signage but in Scotland the specific numeric signs would all need changing.

This sign used to indicate end of speed limit when the UK had some unrestricted roads but the meaning changed when the overall National Speed Limits were introduced in 1967 after a two year trial period.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If my car could read speed signs and adjust its maximum speed automatically, I would constantly be harangued buy other drivers in my area.

I live in a 20mph zone not that you would no it from the speed many vehicles travel at), and when I leave to go to my local town, I pass a sign which tells me I'm entering a 30mph area which is only 12meters from a traffic island on a main road which is limited to 40mph, but there is no 40mph sign at my point or access. When I leave the island to go to my local town, the road is limited to also limited to 40mph, so there is no speed sign on the exit of the island

This means the only speed sign my car would see is a 30mph sign which it would follow until it saw the next speed limit sign which is also 30mph as I enter the outskirts of the town about a mile away.

There must be plenty of other similar situations around the country.

The other very unclear situation that seems to be coming far more common is when road works are started and in four locations within 5 miles of me, a reduced speed limit has been applied becasue of road works or for slow moving site access. The contractors have posted the normal temporary A frame signs with a conforming lower speed limit sign, but they have only spray painted the official higher speed limit signs, and in many instances, the sprayed paint is so thin you can still clearly see the original higher speed limit. They also don't have "End of road work" signage, so its unclear when the original limit is reapplied. Very confusing.

In one particular location the speed limit has been dropped from 50 to 40mph, and just after the site entrance an A frame board set up about 30 metres in front of an original sign, which looks as though its allowing the speed to increase, this is reinforced by the fact there is a 50mph, symbol painted on the road surface which is still totally visible, yet a couple of hundred metres further up the road is another A frame 40 mph sign. Why don't these contractors have a drawstring bag to fully cover the original signs to avoid this confusion?

 

[Dustydog]

M

During a trial, the A9 between Perth and Inverness on single carriageway stretches

If my car could read speed signs and adjust its maximum speed automatically, I would constantly be harangued buy other drivers in my area.

I live in a 20mph zone not that you would no it from the speed many vehicles travel at), and when I leave to go to my local town, I pass a sign which tells me I'm entering a 30mph area which is only 12meters from a traffic island on a main road which is limited to 40mph, but there is no 40mph sign at my point or access. When I leave the island to go to my local town, the road is limited to also limited to 40mph, so there is no speed sign on the exit of the island

This means the only speed sign my car would see is a 30mph sign which it would follow until it saw the next speed limit sign which is also 30mph as I enter the outskirts of the town about a mile away.

There must be plenty of other similar situations around the country.

leaving the 20mph zone but it doesn't tell me what the speed limit is beyond the sign.

The other very unclear situation that seems to be coming far more common is when road works are started and in four locations within 5 miles of me, a reduced speed limit has been applied becasue of road works or for slow moving site access. The contractors have posted the normal temporary A frame signs with a conforming lower speed limit sign, but they have only spray painted the official higher speed limit signs, and in many instances, the sprayed paint is so thin you can still clearly see the original higher speed limit. They also don't have "End of road work" signage, so its unclear when the original limit is reapplied. Very confusing.

In one particular location the speed limit has been dropped from 50 to 40mph, and just after the site entrance an A frame board set up about 30 metres in front of an original sign, which looks as though its allowing the speed to increase, this is reinforced by the fact there is a 50mph, symbol painted on the road surface which is still totally visible, yet a couple of hundred metres further up the road is another A frame 40 mph sign. Why don't these contractors have a drawstring bag to fully cover the original signs to avoid this confusion?

I bet you don’t see speed control officers🤪

 

[borderbilly]

That consultation has only just started - at present the speed limits on the A9 single carriageway between Perth and Inverness are 50 for HGVs and 60 for cars - if you thought it was 50 for all vehicles, then the signage is confusing

you are correct, it was 60mph this year when i was on it.

 

[RogerL]

M



I bet you don’t see speed control officers🤪

They have average speed cameras - sends the Notice of Intended Prosecution (***) automatically to the registered keeper.