Snow on CC sites

[Countrylass]

We
were staying on a snowy site last weekend and the roads on site were left
uncleared. They became polished in places. It seems that the Caravan club no
longer clear snow but rely on notices telling caravanners to be
careful.

I saw countless people slipping and
sliding when trying to walk about the site. Many were even using ski or
trekking poles to help keep upright. Anyone else have problems on CC
sites?

 

[MeonIan]

I would expect grit/salt to be put down around reception and toilet blocks but nothing else really, I don't know how people would expect them to clear all the roadways unless they have some sort of plough to fit to their tractors.

 

[Countrylass]

The site had a tractor with a snowplough and it's always been cleared when we've been there before.

 

[NigelHutson]

It's all down to the "elf and safety" monster I'm afraid. We were at York a couple of years ago and had the same situation. Apparently if they do nothing, then it's up to you to be careful. If they clear paths and/or put salt/grit down and someone slips, then a parasitic daytime telly watcher can contact one of the even more parasitic ambulance chasing lawyers who will make a claim. The World's gone mad; spoilt by a few for the vast majority.

 

[Gybe]

Nigel has probably hit the nail on the head. Nature can't be sued.
Another point, there might be a tractor with a snow plough blade but unless the staff have done the training and H&S and safety on its use it would be more than their jobs worth.

 

[FrintonMike]

We were at the Caravan Club site at Ferry Meadows earlier this month and there were yellow freestanding signs put out warning of slippery paths and roadways and too be careful when on the site. At that time there was only a light dusting of snow, nothing like we have now.

 

[otherclive]

I really think that the old H&S chestnut ought to be put to sleep. The HMG website quite clearly shows that unless anyone clearing snow dooes anything reckless, like using a hose pipe, then a case would not suceed. Howver rather than letting such a case be kicked out by an eminently sensible judge, most insurers cave in on the basis it is cheaper to settle. But if the insurers supported each other and funded a few such cases against these parasitic claims then they would soon cease.

Did anyone see last Saturday's programe by Chris Packham on the Big Freeze of 1963? Cannot imagine how people survived then as now its a much softer, less reliant society. I recall in 1963 having my bike wheel buckling, and a frame cracking caused by cycling 5 miles each way to school on ice-rutted roads. Dad did not attempt to visit a caravan site though!

 

[Conquerorman]

Country Lass, we also winter caravan on the site you are referring to. You are right ,it has always been cleared in years
previous. I see on the CC website that the site is closed due to weather conditions.

 

[philspot1]

Otherclive, I agree that the "old chestnut" should, indeed be put to bed. but it's really no use waiting for a kindly judge to get round to giving a sensible verdict - they remember when they were a struggling barrister on £90,000 p a and don't want to be the one to upset the gravy train. Why not require any politician who supports the idea that "we don't need to change the law" to stump up a couple of million to cover anyone who is held responsible for a helpful action that is subsequently challenged in court - not many takers there, I'll bet!!
I can remember similar things being said in school when I was teaching; " of course it's all right to run a girl pupil home if she's missed the last bus (cold rainy winter's evening) - the management will back you!" Thank goodness their backing never had to be called on - I suspect that "a special case" would have been quoted as they phoned their solicitors!

 

[Dustydog]

Three years ago we spent a snowbound minus 10deg c Christmas and New Year at Carnon Downs, an affiliated CC site. Again no effort was made to clear the snow. I had no real problem with this. Not that many people were away. Only a minimum of staff were employed; they do cost money and as Nigel has already said there is a reluctance to clear the snow for fear of being sued.
It used to be the case that if you didn't clear the snow "properly " and someone fell over you were liable. If you left it you were not liable

. Ridiculous!
Canada , Poland Hungary amonst others have made it Law that property owners immediately clear their own paths of snow.
Personally I can't blame the CC for doing nothing. Afterall winter caravanning is all about the different weather and cheaper prices of course. I suspect if we ask too much of CC this time of year they will just keep the sites shut.

 

[otherclive]

Three years ago we spent a snowbound minus 10deg c Christmas and New Year at Carnon Downs, an affiliated CC site. Again no effort was made to clear the snow. I had no real problem with this. Not that many people were away. Only a minimum of staff were employed; they do cost money and as Nigel has already said there is a reluctance to clear the snow for fear of being sued.
It used to be the case that if you didn't clear the snow "properly " and someone fell over you were liable. If you left it you were not liable

. Ridiculous!
Canada , Poland Hungary amonst others have made it Law that property owners immediately clear their own paths of snow.
Personally I can't blame the CC for doing nothing. Afterall winter caravanning is all about the different weather and cheaper prices of course. I suspect if we ask too much of CC this time of year they will just keep the sites shut.

it might be claimed that some while back you could be liable, but can you point me to a law that says such? In civil court what would be the basis of any case brought? Has anyone any documented evidence of any successful case being pursued through the courts? My grandson who is studying law tells me that a large legal practice in Bristol deliberately use their staff to clear snow in order to try and scotch this H&S myth. I support the head teacher in Birmingham who opened his school which shared a site with others that were not opened. His view was that the pupils had been out all weekend playing in the snow and his job was to educate them.

 

[Dustydog]

Three years ago we spent a snowbound minus 10deg c Christmas and New Year at Carnon Downs, an affiliated CC site. Again no effort was made to clear the snow. I had no real problem with this. Not that many people were away. Only a minimum of staff were employed; they do cost money and as Nigel has already said there is a reluctance to clear the snow for fear of being sued.
It used to be the case that if you didn't clear the snow "properly " and someone fell over you were liable. If you left it you were not liable

. Ridiculous!
Canada , Poland Hungary amonst others have made it Law that property owners immediately clear their own paths of snow.
Personally I can't blame the CC for doing nothing. Afterall winter caravanning is all about the different weather and cheaper prices of course. I suspect if we ask too much of CC this time of year they will just keep the sites shut.

it might be claimed that some while back you could be liable, but can you point me to a law that says such? In civil court what would be the basis of any case brought? Has anyone any documented evidence of any successful case being pursued through the courts? My grandson who is studying law tells me that a large legal practice in Bristol deliberately use their staff to clear snow in order to try and scotch this H&S myth. I support the head teacher in Birmingham who opened his school which shared a site with others that were not opened. His view was that the pupils had been out all weekend playing in the snow and his job was to educate them.

Hi Clive
There never has been nor is there any Law that says you will be liable as described above.
What did happen, some years ago I admit, that where a petrol station owner cleared the snow and someone slipped , they were held liable.
Why?
Well the County Court Judge took the view the Owner had failed in his duty of care to clear the snow thus causing the accident. They had attempted to clear the snow and then invited the customer onto site. This scenario happened at Esso and Murco sites . How a Judge will view it today I'm not sure. I don't recall H&S being involved.

There were similar cases where Postmen and Utility employees had accidents on cleared driveways.
County Court Judgements do not set Legal Precedents but do serve as a reasonably good guideline . They can of course be over ridden by a different Judge on a different case at a later date.
As for schools

. We walked three miles each way in blizzards to attend schools. All the teachers made it too. Ok get out the violins!!

 

[Raywood]

You are looking at the Occupiers Liability Act. This requires the occupier to make the property safe for known visitors as far as is reasonably possible. Various questions arise as to what is reasonable in the circumstances and what is the best course of action. Putting salt down on icy roadways is clearly a good idea but how far do you have to take it. There is also a potential debate as to whether clearing snow is more dangerousd than leaving it as cleared snow is more likely to ice up than if you leave it. This is never an easy question and what is right in any given circumstance is often debatable

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

The best one I heard was on the radio a couple of days ago, went something like this " have you had a visit to a dentist, was you in discomfort after your treatment, did it turn to pain, if so you could be entitled to compensation, contact so and so solicitors.
The world has gone mad!

 

[otherclive]

This must count as the most accurate post ever!!! Fully concur.