some common sense advice please

[wombat1]

I am a newbie to all things Caravaning.

I don't have a car or a van - yet, but I have identified my ideal set-up.

I am considering a Seat Alhambra 1.9TD tow car, and a Coachman 550/5 van.

When I calculate tow weights etc, the set up is above the guideline 85%, in fact it is 95%; this uses the van MTPLM(~1560kg) and the car kerb weight (~1650kg).

Now I am not going to load the van with 200Kg of stuff, and the car can't drive itself! So can I use sensible figures and consider how much load I will put in the van and the car and calculate the ratio from that?

The towsafe web site cost me £15 to tell me what I already know, what a rip off.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Timothy

I should check that kerbweight, our 2000 Seat Ahambra PD SE has a kerbweight of 1820Kg, I can not believe it would change that much even in another variant.

We tow a 1710 Kg twin axle with no problems, but I would not suggest ours as a first outfit, yours sounds OK if you have the kerb weight wrong.

If you have not bought the car yet try and get one with the lower (harder) suspension, there is a noticeable difference towing.

 

[Viking1]

Timothy

this sit calculate it for you and it free.

Cut and past

http://www.whattowcar.com/index.php
Mark

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Timothy,

You are very sensible to consider the weight ratio of your outfit, and it seesm you also understand that the 85% is only guideline, and has no basis in law. Provided the ratio is within the manufactuures specification, then it should be legal.

You have correctly used the tug kerbweight:Caravan MPTLM to calculate the ratio. whilst this may seem silly (for the reasons you explain) but it is a consistent method, that does not require the actual weighing of each part of the outfit, which for most people is impractical. The upshot is that most outfits are slightly better than theoretical ratio.

What is important is that as with all outfits, care must be taken with loading to achieve the correct nose weight, and all the other factors such as tyre pressures are set correctly. Just as important is the style of driving, any car and a caravan is a big vehicle. It will not accelerate and go round bends as quickly as a solo car, so give your self time and space. Fortunately stopping should not be too different as the caravan has its own brakes,

It is entirely up to you if you wish to go to the extra trouble of trying to calculate the real ratio in a loaded condition, but there is no real point other than self satisfaction, and the figure would not be used by any organisation.

Where it might be of signicance, is for drivers who passed thier test after 1st Jan 1997, where there are tighter restrictions on what you are allowed to drive and tow, (I do avise checking your Licence)

In considering your suggested combination, The Seat Alhambra seems to have a generaous maximum tow weight, and dosen't generate many negative comments in this forum. I would suggest you condier the 130Bhp varients. I have no knowledge of the Coachman, but most UK caravans should be well within the Seat's capability.

Happy Caravanning.

 

[wombat1]

The model year I was considering is in the range 2000 to 2003, so I would have thought the kerb weight to be the same also.

I have checked the kerb weight from various sources, the most trusted of which was the Euro NCAP website for crash test results. Also the VW Sharan and Galaxy weights are similar.

The new Alhambra (2006) I believe has a higher quoted kerb weight in the region of 1800kg. Maybe I should ask Seat to confirm for the 2000 - 2003 model.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[wombat1]

Timothy

I should check that kerbweight, our 2000 Seat Ahambra PD SE has a kerbweight of 1820Kg, I can not believe it would change that much even in another variant.

We tow a 1710 Kg twin axle with no problems, but I would not suggest ours as a first outfit, yours sounds OK if you have the kerb weight wrong.

If you have not bought the car yet try and get one with the lower (harder) suspension, there is a noticeable difference towing.

Do you know what model that would be?

Thanks

 

[Lutz]

As I have mentioned in replies to various other posts, unless you actually weigh the car, any published kerbweight figure, regardless of whether it is quoted by the manufacturer, Euro NCAP, or found in any other database, is only going to be a vague guideline.

Depending how detailed the database is, the very best that you can expect is an accuracy of

 

[Icemaker]

Hi Timothy, our seat alhambra which is a 1.9 tdi 130 se on a 2005 plate has a kerbweight of 1760 kgs and a max tow of 2000 kgs with a nose weight of 85 kg.

We tow a coachman vip 530/4 with our alhambra and the outfit is absolutely fine, the car tows the van with ease and total stability. do not bother getting a model with anything less than 130 bp for this size of van the 115 version will pull the van ok but you will find yourself using the gears more, likewise the petrol versions are very thirsty and underpowered for towing such a large van.

Up untill 6 weeks ago our alhambra was towing a ace celebration 590 twin axle van at 27 foot and 1670 kgs weight and again the car had no problems, it towed the ace 3000 miles to france and back without a murmor, fantastic towcar and a great choice of van, only problem is that like us if you have a coachman as your first van every other maker will seem inferior as coachmans are so well built.

 

[Icemaker]

Sorry forgot to say forget whattowcar.com as all the cars are foreign spec and the weights are irrelevant to uk spec cars and vans, the site has in the past given some dangerous combinations as safe, it can not be trusted.

 

[Icemaker]

Hi Timothy, our seat alhambra which is a 1.9 tdi 130 se on a 2005 plate has a kerbweight of 1760 kgs and a max tow of 2000 kgs with a nose weight of 85 kg.

We tow a coachman vip 530/4 with our alhambra and the outfit is absolutely fine, the car tows the van with ease and total stability. do not bother getting a model with anything less than 130 bp for this size of van the 115 version will pull the van ok but you will find yourself using the gears more, likewise the petrol versions are very thirsty and underpowered for towing such a large van.

Up untill 6 weeks ago our alhambra was towing a ace celebration 590 twin axle van at 27 foot and 1670 kgs weight and again the car had no problems, it towed the ace 3000 miles to france and back without a murmor, fantastic towcar and a great choice of van, only problem is that like us if you have a coachman as your first van every other maker will seem inferior as coachmans are so well built.

just checked my old galaxy lx which was a 1.9 tdi on a 2001 plate that car had a kerbweight of 1740 kgs. the 1650 you are being quoted seems very low and probably wrong. go to a dealer and lift the bonnet on the left hand side of the car under the bonnet and near the wing you will find the cars data plate with kerbweight stamped on the plate. its located very near the bonnet hinge.

 

[Lutz]

The whattowcar.com data for kerbweights is no closer to the actual figures for foreign spec cars than for UK models. The results, whether from this website or any other, should be treated for approximate reference only.

 

[wombat1]

Hi Timothy, our seat alhambra which is a 1.9 tdi 130 se on a 2005 plate has a kerbweight of 1760 kgs and a max tow of 2000 kgs with a nose weight of 85 kg.

We tow a coachman vip 530/4 with our alhambra and the outfit is absolutely fine, the car tows the van with ease and total stability. do not bother getting a model with anything less than 130 bp for this size of van the 115 version will pull the van ok but you will find yourself using the gears more, likewise the petrol versions are very thirsty and underpowered for towing such a large van.

Up untill 6 weeks ago our alhambra was towing a ace celebration 590 twin axle van at 27 foot and 1670 kgs weight and again the car had no problems, it towed the ace 3000 miles to france and back without a murmor, fantastic towcar and a great choice of van, only problem is that like us if you have a coachman as your first van every other maker will seem inferior as coachmans are so well built.

Thanks for the confidence check.I assume you've had no problems with hill starts?

I've had responses from people I talk to ranging from, you'll have no problem with that set-up and almost a gasp of shock when you tell them it ain't 4 wheel drive.

 

[Icemaker]

Hi again Timothy, to answer your question on hill starts i have no problems at all. to get to my home from glossop caravans we have to climb a very steep hill which is constantly gridlocked with traffic and i have to make about 20 hill starts one after the other to get to the top traffic lights, the car deals with this fine.

You will find people looking on in horror as you say as they cant see beyond the 4x4 and think anything above 1000 kgs needs 4 wheel drive, We had the same advice when we got our first coachman which was a pastiche 520/4 we where told that coachmans where that heavy we needed a 4x4 so we bought a discovery. don't get me wrong i loved the discovery but the alhambra is a better car for what i want, it tows better on the road, much more stable than the discovery it returns far superior mpg, 55 solo 35 towing and i dont have to put with all the anti this anti that idiots, on top of this i have only needed pulling of a muddy field once in nine years. you will not go wrong with a alhambra / galaxy / sharran it is perfect for the van you are looking at.

Out of interest if you are anywhere near stockport come and have a drive of mine with the van on i would be more than willing to show you how good this car is for towing caravans.

 

[wombat1]

Hello Timothy,

You are very sensible to consider the weight ratio of your outfit, and it seesm you also understand that the 85% is only guideline, and has no basis in law. Provided the ratio is within the manufactuures specification, then it should be legal.

You have correctly used the tug kerbweight:Caravan MPTLM to calculate the ratio. whilst this may seem silly (for the reasons you explain) but it is a consistent method, that does not require the actual weighing of each part of the outfit, which for most people is impractical. The upshot is that most outfits are slightly better than theoretical ratio.

What is important is that as with all outfits, care must be taken with loading to achieve the correct nose weight, and all the other factors such as tyre pressures are set correctly. Just as important is the style of driving, any car and a caravan is a big vehicle. It will not accelerate and go round bends as quickly as a solo car, so give your self time and space. Fortunately stopping should not be too different as the caravan has its own brakes,

It is entirely up to you if you wish to go to the extra trouble of trying to calculate the real ratio in a loaded condition, but there is no real point other than self satisfaction, and the figure would not be used by any organisation.

Where it might be of signicance, is for drivers who passed thier test after 1st Jan 1997, where there are tighter restrictions on what you are allowed to drive and tow, (I do avise checking your Licence)

In considering your suggested combination, The Seat Alhambra seems to have a generaous maximum tow weight, and dosen't generate many negative comments in this forum. I would suggest you condier the 130Bhp varients. I have no knowledge of the Coachman, but most UK caravans should be well within the Seat's capability.

Happy Caravanning.

I have actually found the advice I was hoping for and this comes from a guide book published by the Caravan Club.

In it they state use the laden weight of the van to calculate the ratio of car to van, and by laden they actually mean the MIRO plus the stuff you put in it, not the MTPLM.

That makes sense to me.

Although they do still refer to car kerbweights.

Looks like I'll be playing around with some scales and a spreadsheet for a while.

Thanks to everyone who posted replies.