We are thinking of buying a 2007 Honda CRV and a 2007 Bailey Senator Virginia. We are happy with the weight combination especially as the new CRV is heavier than the old one even though emmisions are lower etc. However, what we are concerned about is the space saver spare wheel that comes with the new CRV. Is it legal to tow with one? Is it safe to tow with one? We are aware that what is legal is not always desirable or safe.
Space saver spare wheels
- Thread starter MrsMothy
- Start date
Search under this topic and you will find a couple of threads with really good information. Some people say they will never even drive with a space saver, let alone tow with one. There is a thread on how often people get punctures, and the answer is that most seldom do.
When a space saver is fitted, your maximum speed is usually 50mph. Were I to be towing with a space saver fitted, then I would probably drive at max 40mph either to a site for the night or a tyre workshop. This would be legal, and pretty safe. But you are more likely to get a flat tyre when solo, so I wouldn't worry too much. Some cars don't have a spare wheel at all ...
When a space saver is fitted, your maximum speed is usually 50mph. Were I to be towing with a space saver fitted, then I would probably drive at max 40mph either to a site for the night or a tyre workshop. This would be legal, and pretty safe. But you are more likely to get a flat tyre when solo, so I wouldn't worry too much. Some cars don't have a spare wheel at all ...
Hi Denise
I remember when space savers were introduced into the Audi/VW range in the late 70's/early 80's. At the time I was working for the Audi rally team and on a trip up to Scotland in a Audi Avant (Estate) towing a trailer with an Audi Quattro rally car on, I had a puncture. I fitted the space saver and drove about a quarter of a mile before I stopped and refused to any further. Now admittedly the trailer and car (rally cars are very heavy) exceeded the 85% rule but even so the drive was, in my opinion, unsafe. After the event we equipped all our tow/service/pace cars with full size spares.
I always felt the space saver option was a sales ploy. The manufacturer could boast larger load areas and as was often the case make money after the event from people purchasing a full size spare wheel and tyre and sometimes boot carpet for their peace of mind. If memory serves me right back in those days there was some confusion as to the legality of space savers with some police forces successfully prosecuting people for driving with one fitted.
I know Audi/VW went back to full size spares for some time and I am assuming that modern day space savers are more technically advanced?
My advice would be to do what a very good friend of mine did when she recently purchased a year old car with a space saver, she demanded the deal would only be done if a full size spare was included and the garage was happy to oblige.
Hope this helps
Martyn
I remember when space savers were introduced into the Audi/VW range in the late 70's/early 80's. At the time I was working for the Audi rally team and on a trip up to Scotland in a Audi Avant (Estate) towing a trailer with an Audi Quattro rally car on, I had a puncture. I fitted the space saver and drove about a quarter of a mile before I stopped and refused to any further. Now admittedly the trailer and car (rally cars are very heavy) exceeded the 85% rule but even so the drive was, in my opinion, unsafe. After the event we equipped all our tow/service/pace cars with full size spares.
I always felt the space saver option was a sales ploy. The manufacturer could boast larger load areas and as was often the case make money after the event from people purchasing a full size spare wheel and tyre and sometimes boot carpet for their peace of mind. If memory serves me right back in those days there was some confusion as to the legality of space savers with some police forces successfully prosecuting people for driving with one fitted.
I know Audi/VW went back to full size spares for some time and I am assuming that modern day space savers are more technically advanced?
My advice would be to do what a very good friend of mine did when she recently purchased a year old car with a space saver, she demanded the deal would only be done if a full size spare was included and the garage was happy to oblige.
Hope this helps
Martyn
i am a driving instructor, and if you turn up at a test center with a space saver fitted the test will not take place,
Hello Martyn,
I appreciate that your are trying to illustrate the shortcommings of towing when using a space saver spare tyre, but you mention the '85% rule' in relation to your towing a trailer rather than a caravan.
Firstly the 85% is not a rule but only a guideline suggestsed by the Caravanning fraternity for caravans. It has no basis in law and certainly should not be applied blanket fassion to all trailers.
Some outfits are not even safe when towing at 85% and some are still good right upto the maximum permitted for the tow vehicle. each outfit has to be judged on its own merrits, though I do concede that 85% is a sensible target for most caravans.
Hello Colin,
I accept what you say, but can you explain why? On what basis of law do you refuse to continue with the test?
I had a Fiat Brava a number of years ago and it had a space saver spare. First thing I did was go to a scrap dealer and got a second hand wheel & tyre. No way would I use one of these wheels.
presumably because spacesaver is limited to 40 or 50 mph and candidate could not keep up with traffic on a road with limit above this,failure to maintain progress.
Denise
Have you done the deal yet? If not then why not explain your concerms to the dealer and insist that the car be supplied with a full size spare. It won't cost the dealer much if the sale depends on it.
Don't fall for the old chestnut that their is insuffient space to carry a full size spare because if that were true where would you put a punctured wheel if it didn't fit in the space that the "pram wheel" came from.
Have you done the deal yet? If not then why not explain your concerms to the dealer and insist that the car be supplied with a full size spare. It won't cost the dealer much if the sale depends on it.
Don't fall for the old chestnut that their is insuffient space to carry a full size spare because if that were true where would you put a punctured wheel if it didn't fit in the space that the "pram wheel" came from.
It's not an old chestnut but there is genuinely not enough space for some of the wider wheels that the manufacturers fit as regular production options. The spare wheel well may only cater for the base wheel but later, after the all the underbody sheet metal has been designed and completed, the marketing department may come up with wanting to offer bigger wheels than originally provided.
Damian
Moderator
Having had many letters travelling between myself and Renault regarding space saver wheels, the answer from them is, "The space saver is ONLY designed to get you to the nearest tyre dealer, not suitable for towing, and the set speed must NOT be exceeded"
I managed to get Renault to supply me with a full size spare, albeit a steel wheel , and that fits in the same space that the spacesaver originally fitted, the only difference is it extends about 2 inches lower than the spacesaver, but stil well above any possible snagging dangers.
I managed to get Renault to supply me with a full size spare, albeit a steel wheel , and that fits in the same space that the spacesaver originally fitted, the only difference is it extends about 2 inches lower than the spacesaver, but stil well above any possible snagging dangers.
There is no way would I put up with a space saver spare, If I was going to buy a new vehicle I would order with a proper size steel spare. If i was buying 2nd hand and it had a space saver then I would buy a 2nd steel from a scrappy and put a new tyre on it.
I think this is getting a bit hysterical. Firstly, if you drive slowly enough with a space saver then you will be safe. Secondly, you are unlikely to use a space saver very often. I have had cars with space savers for about 9 years, and I have used one just once, for about 6 miles.
What is the point in huffing and puffing and demanding a "proper" spare? If it is underslung, then it might fit. If it is in a well in the boot, it probably won't fit. The days of buying a new car and fitting the spare at the first tyre change (and therefore buying just one new tyre) are pretty well over.
Spare wheels are seldom used, and take up valuable space.
What is the point in huffing and puffing and demanding a "proper" spare? If it is underslung, then it might fit. If it is in a well in the boot, it probably won't fit. The days of buying a new car and fitting the spare at the first tyre change (and therefore buying just one new tyre) are pretty well over.
Spare wheels are seldom used, and take up valuable space.
Hysterical???? Huffing and puffing???? this is a disscussion site are we not allowed to voice our own opinions???? or is it that we do not not agree with you and that is why you are getting hysterical and huffing and puffing???? I say no more on this suject.
I don't have any feeling for this one way or the other. I am sure car manufactuers will have gone into this from the safety point of view. So I am sure they have come to the conclusion it's both safe and legal.
Val & Frank
Val & Frank
Car manufacturers have looked into the saftey point of view and come to the conclusion that it is cheaper to chuck a pram wheel in the boot than it would be to supply a real spare.
I still think that people are worrying about something that is, statistically, unlikely to happen to them very often - and less likely to happen when towing, as most people do greater solo mileage than towing.
I think that refusing to purchase a vehicle just on the basis of the size of the spare wheel is a bit precious, to say the least. Just my opinion, which I am perfectly entitled to express.
Perhaps car manufacturers realised, several years ago, that spare wheels were seldom used and a reduction in their size could increase luggage capacity. Just a thought.
the D.S.A. STATE THE car must be able to do 62.5 mph ,so if a space saver is limited to 40-50 mph,they will not make progress,dont ask why its .5 and not 63 or 62 mph.
Car manufacturers have looked into the saftey point of view and come to the conclusion that it is cheaper to chuck a pram wheel in the boot than it would be to supply a real spare
Sorry if that's all you can add to this debate, you need to eat some more lettuce. Instead of dodging it.
Val & Frank
Sorry if that's all you can add to this debate, you need to eat some more lettuce. Instead of dodging it.
Val & Frank
Mercedes Benz developed most of the car safety features people now expect to see in their family car - for instance: passenger safety cell, ABS braking system, air-bags, ESP stability system, brake-asyst, and others.
So in my new E-class, there is a space saver tyre and rim in the boot - so why did they fit this?
Thinking about it, in the last ten years, I haven't had a puncture (about 150,000 miles) - so before I've always carried a full spare tyre that never ever got used - and on those grounds alone I'm quite happy to use a space saver.
Having the space saver also means that there is an additional under boot storage compartment.
Cost has nothing to do with it.
Robert
So in my new E-class, there is a space saver tyre and rim in the boot - so why did they fit this?
Thinking about it, in the last ten years, I haven't had a puncture (about 150,000 miles) - so before I've always carried a full spare tyre that never ever got used - and on those grounds alone I'm quite happy to use a space saver.
Having the space saver also means that there is an additional under boot storage compartment.
Cost has nothing to do with it.
Robert
Space saver wheels are just a get you home measure or to the tyre centre on a reduced running speed, about 50 mph max I think. Nothing wrong with that, but the size difference is taken up by the cars suspension and not ideal to use if you are towing a caravan.
I only know of two towing experiences with space savers, one was towing an empty flat bed trailer and got ten miles OK to ATS. The other was towing a folding camper complete with cycles on top and 4 in the car on a very wet French Sunday. I remember being told that it was not a good experience and the puncture was on a drive wheel, they changed the wheel and then had to change the wheels about to get the a normal tyre on the drive wheel as it was causing problems with the loaded car towing.
Something like 8+ hours to get around 220 miles!
I only know of two towing experiences with space savers, one was towing an empty flat bed trailer and got ten miles OK to ATS. The other was towing a folding camper complete with cycles on top and 4 in the car on a very wet French Sunday. I remember being told that it was not a good experience and the puncture was on a drive wheel, they changed the wheel and then had to change the wheels about to get the a normal tyre on the drive wheel as it was causing problems with the loaded car towing.
Something like 8+ hours to get around 220 miles!
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