Spare Parts - A Nightmare!

[BedfordGeorge]

We needed a few spare parts for our Swif Challenger Shower Cabinet and contacted our engineer who is fully credited with Swift. Two Months later we are due to leave for our Autum tour, over 6 weeks, of France and they are still waiting to receive the parts. I know there have been many posts on this subject over the years, but when oh when are our manufacturers going to learn.
Many years ago I went to Canada for my company, on one call I was berrated by a customer about the cost and delay for spare parts. He had actually had some manufactured locally at much less cost, but more importantly had ordered 2 new machines from a Germany Company at a cost, then, of about £90,000. My old company is now out of business, having once been the largest in the world.
I expect Swift will say it is a bought in part, but this is not an answer I will accept. They buy many cabinets over the years, so to ask the supplier to supply FOC a small number for each of the brackets and hinges would not be unreasonable.
Is the answer in future to look at buying a european manufacturer, or do they have similar problems?

 

[ProfJohnL]

We needed a few spare parts for our Swif Challenger Shower Cabinet and contacted our engineer who is fully credited with Swift. Two Months later we are due to leave for our Autum tour, over 6 weeks, of France and they are still waiting to receive the parts. I know there have been many posts on this subject over the years, but when oh when are our manufacturers going to learn.
Many years ago I went to Canada for my company, on one call I was berrated by a customer about the cost and delay for spare parts. He had actually had some manufactured locally at much less cost, but more importantly had ordered 2 new machines from a Germany Company at a cost, then, of about £90,000. My old company is now out of business, having once been the largest in the world.
I expect Swift will say it is a bought in part, but this is not an answer I will accept. They buy many cabinets over the years, so to ask the supplier to supply FOC a small number for each of the brackets and hinges would not be unreasonable.
Is the answer in future to look at buying a european manufacturer, or do they have similar problems?

Hello George,

I'm not defending the manufacturers, as they have far too many customer service fails, Many may be of their own making, but some may be down to circumstances beyond their control.

You don't tell us how old or current your caravans is, as this will have a bearing on the manufacturers response times, for example if you caravan is more than 3 years old, it could well mean the items you are after are not to the current design. This would delay almost every manufacturer (not just caravans)

Holding obsolete stock is a very costly. It is sometimes more cost effective to have the ability to manufacture to order, but this may require finding a slot in a production schedule to actually make it.

If what you are after is a current product then there is no good excuse for such a slow turnaround.

I know from real life experience that providing free issue spares to caravan manufacturers does not work. The parts get lost, or damaged.

 

[Damian]

The days of any business holding stocks of spare parts is well and truly a thing of the past.
No one has shelves of odds and ends sitting around for years gathering dust just in case one person requires that part.
The costs are too much and most businesses are on very tight margins as it is, and spares are very expensive.

I know from personal experience having had some spares sitting in my work van for over 8 years !!!

 

[BedfordGeorge]

Thanks for your response, my van is a 2013, so just 4 years old. From previouse experience when I was working, the normal margins were 300% on parts, so that department usually provided, on paper, good profits, but at what expense. What I failed to mention is that I will have to buy a complete bar assembly, rather than just the black botttom bracket screwed to the side of the cabinet which has broken, so will end up with my own spare parts department! I certainly think that this part is standard stock on current models, but may be wrong.

I think it reasonable, as in my field to hold standard spare parts for up to 10 years, and if the department is run efficiently by computer then it should be proitable.

 

[VicMallows]

Is there, perhaps, an undue obsession with keeping cosmetic items 'authentic'.?

Most , if not all, such things can be resolved with a little imagination, and if done well should not in any way reduce the value of the 'van ......might even improve it. Better to just get on and enjoy rather than fretting over some minor blemish.

 

[BedfordGeorge]

All I am asking is for a bracket, so I can screw the broken one off, screw the new one on, and get on my way. However I have to wait for two months, or probably more, then I have to buy the complete bracket assembly, so as mentioned will have my own parts department in my garage. Whilst this item has been to the forfront, there are other standard items I have had to wait for.
The cost of a van is over £20K, the bracket probably has a manufacturing cost of less than 50pence, whats the problem.

 

[Damian]

What field were you in that had spares for up to 10 years?

 

[ProfJohnL]

What field were you in that had spares for up to 10 years?

Hello Damain,
British Gas when it was truly Britsh and did all its own work usd to insist that all manufactures of BG approved products must stock parts for ten years. When BG was broken up, that requirement was dropped.

 

[Damian]

Yes. I know BG had that in place but we are talking caravan makers.
BG had, and still has hundreds of thousands of appliances, albeit from different manufacturers, whereas caravan makers have nowhere near that number, and BG type appliances use the same items in hundreds of appliances.

Caravan makers have the very annoying habit of changing relatively minor items, making the currently fitted items obsolete very quickly.
Also many are specifically made for a particular run of vans, and not used anywhere else, so only a specific number are made, and to get a replacement made would mean the supplying maker having to retool to make maybe one item, something they are not keen to do.

 

[Dustydog]

Ironically most bits we need whether caravan related or not can be obtained very swiftly from eBay or Amazon.
I'm lucky. Bailey parts still stock most bits for my 8 year old Wyoming next day delivery :cheer:
Not all doom and gloom.

 

[otherclive]

My current van is a 5 berth but came without a part that enabled the rear area to be made into a double. It was a pre owned van so no criticism of dealer as they pointed out the omission. I don't need the rear double bed but decided to see how much a replacement part was from Swift. They told me that the specific item isn't stocked as a spare and didn't have a part number. However they very helpfully provided me a complete set of drawings and material specifications and when I need something to fill out some time I plan to make the part myself. Swift did tell me that they would be giving the part a specific identifier but couldn't say if they would plan to stock them as spares. I suspect not as there couldn't be much call for them.

 

[BedfordGeorge]

Damian I was in the Woodworking Machinery field and it was generally accepted to supply spares for each model, for up to 10 years after it ceased production. The part I require would I believe have been unchanged for many years, being the black bracket attached to the side wall, over which the chrome pipe and cover fits. The manufacturer would have these on the shelf in their thousands, but I suppose they are probably in the far east, and thats the problem. They also want to get more money from us, so I will have to buy the complete assembly, at what cost I still have to find out.

 

[Damian]

George, I fully sympathise with you and understand your frustration, but you have identified just one of the problems, that is the maker of the part you want is in the Far East as are most of the bits and pieces.
In fact I don't think there is very much at all that is UK "born and bred" in a caravan !!!!

The other point you make is very valid too.
Caravans , much the same as boats, are seen as cash cows and parts are extraordinarily expensive for what they are.

I used to despair at some of the prices being asked for items, and that was at trade prices !!!

 

[Raywood]

The service is appalling but is not limited to Swift. Not sure how complex the bracket is or what pressure it is under but most are relatively simple and looking elsewhere for something similar might solve the problem.

 

[emmerson]

Damian I was in the Woodworking Machinery field and it was generally accepted to supply spares for each model, for up to 10 years after it ceased production. The part I require would I believe have been unchanged for many years, being the black bracket attached to the side wall, over which the chrome pipe and cover fits. The manufacturer would have these on the shelf in their thousands, but I suppose they are probably in the far east, and thats the problem. They also want to get more money from us, so I will have to buy the complete assembly, at what cost I still have to find out.

A company local to me, The Caravan Centre, Blaenavon. (01495 792700) break up late model write-off caravans, and supply parts by mail order. It might be worth a phone call, or email a picture, to see if they can help.

 

[ProfJohnL]

.... The manufacturer would have these on the shelf in their thousands, but I suppose they are probably in the far east, and thats the problem. They also want to get more money from us, so I will have to buy the complete assembly, at what cost I still have to find out.

Hello George,
They almost certainly do not have them on their shelves in their thousands. Hold stock is surprising costly. First of all you have to buy it which ties up money, you have to have the facilities to hold and manage it, you have to set up stock control and reorder processes. With some items stock rotation is important so you have to have trained personnel to ensure it is managed properly, you may have to transport it from a stores point to the production lines. and if it suffers a loss your company has to carry teh liability.

At least 20 years ago, I was working at a company that supplied appliances to the caravan industry amongst others. At that time all the major caravan manufacturers had realised that holding stock on their premises was a highly uneconomic process, so they negotiated with their supplier to introduce what is called lean manufacturing. This is where you hold virtually no stock at the assembly plant, but it is delivered in to the plant often direct to teh production line on a 'just in time' basis.

The manufacturers suppliers had to arrange to supply just enough product for the current production run, and make sure it was delivered within hours of it actually being needed on the lines.

Our company had to make daily deliveries, and if we were late there were penalty charges levied against us.

To put this into perspective, by operating a lean manufacturing process could save as much as 8% to 10% of the cost of a product. This means without lean manufacturing your caravan may have cost £22K £2K of which would be to cover the costs I mentioned at the top of this post. - but you would probably be able to get your bracket more quickly.

This is the norm now for the car and many other industries. Consequently spare parts have become even more of a oddball matter, and sadly some manufactures simply do not put the effort into the quality of their products to reduce the call on spare parts, and they often don't support older products (sometimes as young as just a year old) as well as they should.

 

[Dustydog]

That's a very defensive reply Prof :silly: Still on their payroll :kiss:
It really is time the caravan industry got off their back sides and thought about their customers. As I said previously, Bailey have stood up and via Bailey parts supply most things next day delivery. I know first hand and with an 8 year old unit they haven't failed me yet.
Maybe the other manufacturers should emulate Bailey :cheer:

 

[ProfJohnL]

That's a very defensive reply Prof :silly: Still on their payroll :kiss:
It really is time the caravan industry got off their back sides and thought about their customers. As I said previously, Bailey have stood up and via Bailey parts supply most things next day delivery. I know first hand and with an 8 year old unit they haven't failed me yet.
Maybe the other manufacturers should emulate Bailey :cheer:

Definitely not and never have been on their payroll, but my answer was to point out to George, that the days of manufacturers holding large stocks of parts are long gone, and whilst we still have cause to complain about the general lack of quality in most of the UK caravan manufacturers products, they would be even more expensive if 10 year stocks of parts were held.

As you well know I'm one of the most vociferous contributors about poor caravan products, and I still maintain the industry can do a hell of lot more, both in product quality and customer service, and whilst I am critical of them, some times customers do have unreasonable expectations and it sometimes needs a detailed explanation as to why those expectations cannot be met in the way they would necessarily like.

 

[DrZhivago]

They almost certainly do not have [spares] on their shelves in their thousands. Hold stock is surprising costly

I have worked in the heavy engineering industry and we regard spares management as simply part of the cost - yes it is not negligible. But we ran for example 50 year old plant maintained as good as new - spares would cost £100s or £1000s but total replacement would cost £millions. Caravan and car makers can indeed save money by neglecting the provision of spares, but they could also save money by not painting their products. As an engineer I would not see much distinction between the two approaches. Something like a car would be useless as soon as a fan belt broke if you could not get a spare.

Unfortunately, the manfacturers' accountants' desires to cut down spares provision co-incides with the general modern throw-away attitude to things. It is as if people welcome a failure as an excuse to throw something away and get new, because they have become bored with the old. I am horrified with what my daughter throws away (a good pair of boots because a lace broke the other day). Yet the "green" move to "saving the planet" has not made a dent in this attitude because the new word for "throwing away" is "recycling", never mind if the recycling is via a hole in the ground the other side of the world, as long as it says "Recycling" on the side of the bin most people are happy.

There used to be a requirement on manufacturers of white and brown goods, and cars, to supply spares for at least 10 years after production. This was done via a system of main dealers who had the obligation to sell spares along with their privileges . I think it was Mrs T's government that swept that requirement away.

Prof talks about spares provision adding (say 10%?) to the cost of things. I'd rather pay that than have something I own worth several hundreds or thousands of pounds useless after 2 years because of a failure which could be mended witha £20 part. But I'm different; most people are happy because they have been groomed to believe that things cannot be expected to last more than that anyway. Recently a senior executive of Apple responded to complaints that you cannot replace batteries in Apple phones by ridiculing people who expected to keep a phone longer than the life of the battery; it matters because so many people regard Apple as trendsetters they should follow. Nevertheless, with cars this supposed prohibitive cost does not stop a thriving industry of independent spares providers, and the picture is easier with caravans as the parts tend to be generic.

 

[Craigyoung]

I must agree with you there because when we had the bailey orion and our front window cracked , we waited about 3 or 4 months for that to be delivered, I think that came from Germany !!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Dr Z,

Good description of the situation. Like you I recoil at the amount of items which today are considered one use only, which often with just a little more forethought could be made serve longer - and with less packaging.

You mention the car industry, which is perhaps a peculiar case, in so far the useful life of most vehicles are often extended to be longer than the manufacturer originally intended. Becasue of this a vibrant spares market has grown up.

But caravans are not like cars, the parts that wear out (as differentiated to consumables like brakes)are far fewer than in cars. its more likely parts will break as in the case of the OP.

The aftermarket spares for caravans will never be as vibrant or extensive as it is for cars, and long lead times for some fabricated parts will inevitably arise.

 

[Dustydog]

I must agree with you there because when we had the bailey orion and our front window cracked , we waited about 3 or 4 months for that to be delivered, I think that came from Germany !!

I am sure others will agree this is totally unacceptable for a mass produced product from Miriad Group aka Polyplastics.
Was it a Dealer or Supplier delay Craig?

 

[Craigyoung]

Dusty , hi ,
The first time we had window done was under warranty work so it was whenever It came in , unsure if it was a garage or manufacturer timing , the second time the window went within a year to it was another few months, 4 years of having the Orion ridiculous we had 3 windows , but on the third time the claim was ok'd it within 2 days, fitted within 2 weeks but when I went down to get it fitted which only took 1o minutes to do, the lad in the workshop showed me I was not the only one as they had about 20 or so windows up against the wall that had been replaced, all one big single window, luckily our new van has it 3 windows at the front , we have since purchased a higher car and hopefully this will not happen again ! fingers crossed :huh:

Craig .

 

[RayS]

Material addition aha 3D printing devices are becoming more available and cheaper and should be well suited to making things like plastic brackets, so an opportunity for some enterprising person to set up such a service.
This aleardy exists within industry generally associated with rapid prototyping where turn round times of 24 hours are quoted.

 

[emmerson]

The modern throw-away society grieves me.
I have three perfectly serviceable cordless drills in my shed, all lacking batteries. This is either because the batteries are no longer available
or because it is cheaper to buy a new drill!
The last drill I bought, just a few weeks ago came with two batteries, but they are Li-ion, which deteriorate if not used, so I cannot keep one indefinitely as a spare, as it may be no good when I need it. Instead, I have to rotate them, so they'll both die together!
Crazy world, ain't it?
(btw, the new drill is a Titan, from Screwfix, and only cost £60, and it's a little gem!)