Speed Camera in Horse Box

[Allyson]

Not sure how many people saw this on the news tonight but last weekend police had a horse box and a 4x4 in a laybay. The only differnce was there was no horse in the box but only a speed camera.

The horsebox with two officers inside was parked near Llanrwst in the Conwy Valley on Sunday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7322582.stm

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Allyson - this is typical of the low level of policing by the North Wales Constabulary. It was a main issue on BBC Wales news tonight and they interviewed a senior partner from a large local solicitors practice and technically they are within their rights to stoop this low. All the law requires is that the road is clearly marked with the speed restriction that is in force. They are not obliged to inform the motorist that speed cameras are in operation in any area. If the public break the law and are caught, the method of apprehension is immarterial. As Mr. Pickwick said in Pickwick Papers - "The law is an ass".

 

[Allyson]

Hi Colin

I know I also so that on the news, I cannot believe they are going to step up on this even more during the Summer.

I travel up to North Wales at least once a month with my job and I know this area well.

It will just slow my journey down even more.

Colleagues in London think you can do the journey to North Wales in about 2 hours that's how much they know about the roads here in Wales.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Neigh, I can't believe that tail Allyson. Whoever saddled you with that story. Hay, if it was on the mane news ok but it was Welsh so cob them.It's a ploy to keep us English out. They are always trotting stories out like that. If you are concerned why don't you go cross country next time to avoid them.

Sorry - it's a non eventer for me :O(

I believe BBC Wales are trying to take everyone for a ride.

 

[Allyson]

Hi Lord B

Looks like I am going to have to renew my passport and come your way.

Won't be long before you have a kiosk on that bridge in Hereford and start charging us Welsh for using the other route into North Wales. LOL

 

[ShadySadie]

I understand that the local Police Cheief has been likened to a Horses Arse!

 

[Rubix]

That Police Chief is a rather large at 4 feet, 8.5 inches wide then

(or would that be 2 feet, 4.25 inches as it's one horse and not 2 !!)

 

[ThePlotter]

According to the website to do with the legality of speed cameras they have to show the speed limit but must always have camera signs at the start of the stretch being monitored if these are not permanent signs they must put a temporary sign at 50 metres from the camera.

 

[emmerson2]

Very funny, LB, but sadly, the report was not an April fool joke. The camera in a horse box was alluded to in another forum last week.The police chief in North Wales has gone on record as making speeding motorists his top priority.

 

[Colinn]

When it comes to speeding, it is strange that so many motorists, who are otherwise law-abiding citizens, can complain about enforcement methods used to catch law breakers.

Would the same people complain if CCTV caught a burglar in their home? Or a vandal trashing their car? Do they complain that DNA traps murderers? Do they have any sympathy with the murderer who cries "unfair!". Of course not.

What is it about so many motorists that they think here is one particular law they can treat as a cat-and-mouse game - try to beat it if you can, but cry foul if you get caught!

Over the years, I have been no angel with regard to speeding, but I have come to accept that if a speed limit is there, it is not our place to think we have a sneaky right to break it if nobody's watching.

If I do break it, that's a risk I choose to take, but how can I then complain if clever old Mr Plod devises a cunning way to catch me?

Whatever we think of motoring issues, surely it is inescapable that in these days of incredibly high volumes of traffic, the roads would be safer - to everyone's benefit - if motorists disciplined themselves to stick to imposed limits.

Doing so is a win-win situation. You don't get fined. You keep your licence. The cops/government don't get your money! You might even save a life, possibly your own!

In my view, the best way to handle speeding would be to introduce loads more HIDDEN cameras and INCREASE fines (but put the money raised to good causes, not government coffers). Speeding would not be an issue for long...

It's worth remembering that none of us who enjoyed a moderate drink liked the breathalyser when it first came out (because it might curb our drinking) - but only reckless cretins drink-and-drive now? Nobody wanted car seatbelts at first, but who would drive without one now, and how many lives has the measure saved?

Sometimes, we need protecting from ourselves - history might eventually judge that speeding was a case in point...

 

[Angus1]

Your points would be difficult to argue with Colinn if we were on a level playing field, but sadly we are not.

If I get caught exceeding an arbitary speed limit four times I will lose my licence, my job, and then probably my house.

Thele little drug pushing scroat that was nicking diesel from our yard (up to

 

[rayc]

Colinn said "Sometimes, we need protecting from ourselves - history might eventually judge that speeding was a case in point"...

Perhaps but speed cameras have not done anything to lower deaths and serious injuries. If you agree that drivers exceeding the speed limit by small amounts at all times of day or night should be prosecuted then so be it but don't play the speeed kills card to justify it.

In Dorset the KSI rate has gone up since the introduction of cameras and the local paper now runs campaigns to "Keep death of our Roads".

i've studied the figures that were used when the Camera partnership was formed to justify new camera locations. Most of them have one serious accident over a number of years and not on the nice straight stretch of road where the camera is located. No surprise then for them to report that KSI's have fallen at the site since the camera was introduced - a baloon may have had the same effect.

 

[Colinn]

That's fine. You keep speeding - you keep paying the fines, etc! Thinks::!! - is there a person suffering here - oh, it's you! Just don't complain about the way you are caught...

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Excellent points Angus. Unfortunately some don't see the overall picture.

It's far easier for the law to target the softer option today, saves themselves from getting hurt by tackling thugs. It's also far easier to impose a fine and penalty points than get a criminal case accepted by the Crown Prosecution Service.Hardly any paperwork, unlike a criminal case where they also might lose a copper for the day in court hence less coppers needed.

Sir Ronnie Flannigan has already said quote..

"Fewer police should be deployed in the fight against crime".

He claims that " having 141,000 officers is neither necessary nor financially "sustainable".

He refused to speculate how many officers could be lost, but the figure will run into thousands and rural forces will be the biggest losers.

 

[rayc]

Colinn, Guess you were resonding to me when you said " That's fine. You keep speeding - you keep paying the fines, etc! Thinks::!! - is there a person suffering here - oh, it's you! Just don't complain about the way you are caught"...

My licence is clean, I attempt to keep to limits even though in many cases they are arbitary. I can though see that the whole Camera Partnership was a money making scam that has done nothing to reduce serious accidents in Dorset. Even the government got wise and broke their powers by making them part of the overall county road safety budget thus removing their abilty to profit by draconian enforcement and further enhancing their empier.

It is not me running around like a headless chicken wondering why the serious accidents have not fallen - It is the Police, Partnership and local government road casualty reduction officers.

There was a local lady who was unaware that the a speed limit had been reduced from 40 to 30mph. The council didn't have to do anything except remove the 40 reminder signs and by default it became 30 due to spacing of lamposts. The lady was caught 4 times in a week by the same camera at speeds under 38mph. She was banned.

Does that make the roads safer - I don't think so.

 

[ShadySadie]

There are two roads near us that have had speed limit reduced, result worse traffic jams and more accidents,

Family who live in Oxfordshire have found the same, and on daily commute to Swindon they have seen many more accidents, have slower journey time and fuel consumption has dipped.

Friends in Somerset now know of a number of accidents since a Safety Camera was put on the road, for twenty plus years the road was near accident free.

 

[Colinn]

As I expected, the point is being lost here.

I am not arguing about the merits or anomolies of speed limits on our roads. That's an entirely separate issue - maybe for another day.

What I am saying is that given the fact that there are limits, given the fact that they are the law, given the fact that most of us are law-abiding citizens, why do we think this is one law we can choose to obey, or disregard as we think fit? And that being the case, how can anyone complain about the manner in which offenders are caught.

As Lord B says, some people are not seeing the overall picture.

Eg Angus: It won't help your speeding defence to argue that you did it because some scroat keeps nicking your diesel. You'll still get fined, ie, you'll still be the loser!

True, motorists are a soft option in policing terms. But policing is not the issue. Nobody is softer than the idiot who CHOOSES to break the speed limit, and makes it easy for them.

Nobody forces a driver to go too fast. Why do it? The limit is there for a perceived reason (whether you agree with that reason or not is irrelevant if you are a law-abiding person.) Give me one good reason why people NEED to speed.

None of us knows what is round the corner (metaphorically speaking). But if you go out tomorrow and drive at 38 mph in a built up area and a child steps out in front of your car, YOU are likely to kill. YOU will be mortified. YOU will not be able to turn back the clock. YOU will know that if you had been doing 30, that child may well have survived.

This tragic scenario did in fact happen to a person I know well, so, ray, the "speed kills card" is not dismissed lightly by me. Believe me, this driver NEVER exceeds speed limits now.

No question in my mind, self-regulation leaves us all winners!

 

[ShadySadie]

People break the law all the time Collin. Speed, drop litter, park in the wrong place, take drugs, take cash in hand, lie on tax forms, drink and drive and cheat on their partners and then try and hide what they earn and own. No doubt there is plenty more.

This speeding issue was brought up in a conversation recently within a company and one person asked for everyone with a Satnav to bring them in a day or so later.

Out of all the satnavs that had trip logs everyone had attained speeds over 70mph including those of the do gooder "I never break the limits" drivers. My husband remembers being told that the lowest maximum speed reading was 81mph the maximum was over 150mph and quite a few at more than a bit over 100mph.

All but a couple of drivers had ever had an accident or had points on their licences and included men and women.

As a lady driver I never break limits of course:

 

[Colinn]

Of course they do Sadie. But if/when they get caught, do they say 'Fair Cop, guv, I did it, I'll have to take the consequences.' Or do they moan: 'Not fair, how dare you catch me with your clever surveillance methods'

The latter is what seems to be advocated by those who want the freedom to speed without enabling the authorities to use all technology at their disposal to stop them. Some would argue, for their own good.

As a lady driver who never breaks limits, you of course will have no fears of hidden cameras:

 

[Angus1]

Can`t see where I suggested having diesel nicked was a defence for speeding?????????

Or is it once again a case of where you have lost an argument you simply disregard/ignore/twist the facts to try to defend the indefensible?

 

[ShadySadie]

Collin did the Yorkshire Ripper, Great Train Robbers and most others who break all kinds of laws not moan.

"It's a fair cop" is a line from TV shows and second rate UK gangster films.

Laws work when they are appropriate and fair, UK speed limits are far from that!

Pedal to the metal as my old dad would say. Maybe not in Urban areas, but I never break the limits ;

 

[rayc]

Sadie the Druid Brunstrom has had many quotes attributted to him. The one I remember best is:

"It is against the law and there is no excuse for drifting over the limit any more than there is for drifting a knife into someone."

 

[Colinn]

oh, i see angus, it's at this point that reasoned argument on both sides is to give way to personal abuse is it? as i recall, you recounted your displeasure over the diesel scroat to illustrate how unfair justice is. No problem with that. All I'm saying is that it's not very clever for you to allow that separate issue to colour your judgement on speeding enforcement. That's all, sorry if that's struck a raw nerve...

Sadie, now you are saying that laws work when they are "appropriate and fair". So are you saying there shouldn't be speed limits??? If you are, that's another argument. But given the fact that the laws are there, and you are a law-abiding lady, then police could not act more "openly and fairly" than to advise you that if you break 'em, they'll catch you!!!

 

[mostavern]

oh, i see angus, it's at this point that reasoned argument on both sides is to give way to personal abuse is it? as i recall, you recounted your displeasure over the diesel scroat to illustrate how unfair justice is. No problem with that. All I'm saying is that it's not very clever for you to allow that separate issue to colour your judgement on speeding enforcement. That's all, sorry if that's struck a raw nerve...

Sadie, now you are saying that laws work when they are "appropriate and fair". So are you saying there shouldn't be speed limits??? If you are, that's another argument. But given the fact that the laws are there, and you are a law-abiding lady, then police could not act more "openly and fairly" than to advise you that if you break 'em, they'll catch you!!!

as well as the horse box watch out in the thames valley police area, the new stretch of road on the outskirts of milton keynes (sorry can't remember the road number) had two very old looking men at the side of the road with what i can only describe as one of the old fashioned cameras (you know the one's with the capes that covered your head)then further down the road yep you've guessed it there they were pulling people into the layby hey ho !!!!

 

[mostavern]

as well as the horse box watch out in the thames valley police area, the new stretch of road on the outskirts of milton keynes (sorry can't remember the road number) had two very old looking men at the side of the road with what i can only describe as one of the old fashioned cameras (you know the one's with the capes that covered your head)then further down the road yep you've guessed it there they were pulling people into the layby hey ho !!!!