Speeding

[mick_374320336]

Hi,

Had our 1st trip with a caravan at the weekend, was being a good boy sticking to 60 mph on the M6 only to be overtaken by several outfits.

Just wondering how seriously do the sherrifs enforce the 60 limit whilst towing?

Anybody ever been stopped for exceeding it?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not planning on doing 90 but it would be nice not to be stuck behind the restricted HGV's...

Mick.

 

[Colinn]

Hi Mick,

Speeding with a caravan in tow is not really an issue of policing. It's a matter of keeping your van upright!

Yes, it does happen that you might creep over the limit, but only you know if it feels right - and that depends on outfit compatibility/condition, road conditions, weather, etc. Be very careful overtaking HGVs, especially going downhill. Better a good boy behind a lorry than a dead boy in front of one! Happy caravanning..

 

[Damian]

Mick, I would suggest that whilst you may be sticking to 60 as indicated by your speedo, you may only actually be doing 55 or 56 mph.

Most vehicle speedos under read as they are not allowed to over read

Having just returned from Birmingham with van in tow, and with sat nav on, my car speedo was reading 60 but the sat nav read 54mph, at a car indicated 65 the sat nav read 60.

The chances of being stopped for speeding are getting more remote as speed related "crimes" are more often dealt with by speed cameras, so you just get the bad news through the post a few days, or weeks, later!!.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

speed cameras can not tell the differance between the back end of a trailer or a ordenary van so unless your traveling in exess of the road speed limit set for that camera you wont get flashed oh and the tolerance on speed is usualy set at 10% higher than the limit so in theory you could go though a m-way camera @ 75 with the van on the and wont get nicked??

 

[Val & Frank]

Some cameras are set at Zero Tolerance in True Accident Blackspots. Also I believe the hand held are the same. According to a traffic policeman !!!

Frank

 

[Meister]

MICK:

I can tell you that speed limits (whilst towing or otherwise) are certainly taken seriously by Thames Valley Police who cover parts of the M4 - M25 - M40.

I would suppose that other forces are the same.

I can also tell you that before I retired (I was a "sherrif") I took the issue of speeding by ANYTHING towing a trailer of any kind to be a VERY serious matter. I generally used the rule of 10% + 2mph above relevant speed limit. My (former) colleagues have/had the same approach.

The answer is of course very simple, concentrate and dont exceed the speed limit.

I have discovered that by travelling at an indicated 55mph I only get to my destination a few minutes later than I would have done at an indicated 60mph and there is no problem about having to keep changing from lane 1 to lane 2 in order to overtake lorries. They all seem to travel faster so they overtake me lol.

I am sure however that someone will disagree with me.

Steve

 

[Pat_374304630]

Hi,

this is my own opinion based on many years caravanning.I try to keep to 60 on the motorways.If I am doing 60, generally lorries are restricted to 56mph,and I feel safe with my outfit I will definately overtake lorries,but it is more difficult going downhill,uphill no problem.

 

[Geordie]

I drive at a speed that keeps me faster than trucks because I find it a lot easier to pass them than the other way round, as some of their overtaking takes a while to complete. I also believe that anyone travelling faster than me in the middle lane has the option of using the outside lane(unless towing of course) so they can have no complaints there.The speeding issue in my opinion is a grey area because there are many factors involved, correct loading, tow-car/van stability,and not least experience.

 

[rayc]

Safety and the speed limit may or may not be related. We have become fixated by figures in this country when we should be concentrating on an appropriate speed for the conditions and the outfit. 60mph has been chosen by the powers to be to be the speed limit for towing all types of trailers on the motorway. I would hope that nobody thinks that 59mph = safe and 61mph = danger for all classes of trailer that the limit applies to. It is much more complicated than that and I would put money on it that the majority of accidents involving caravans occur at speeds below the limit.

It is only my opinion but in general I think the limit of 50 /60mph when applied to caravans is about right.

 

[rayc]

Frank said "Some cameras are set at Zero Tolerance in True Accident Blackspots. Also I believe the hand held are the same. According to a traffic policeman !!!"

If there are any cameras at True Accident Blackspots then this is a failure of the system. There must be a generic problem that should be engineered out if it is a location of multiple accidents.

I do not believe there have been any prosecutions from Camera Partnership vehicles or fixed cameras at less than 10%+ 2mph over the limit. The motorists forumse.g. Piston Head, Association of british drivers and Safespeed have not found a single case - and they have tried.

I believe this is the same for Policeman with hand held devices. The ACPO guidelines say that at speeds of 10%+2mph above the limit some action should be taken - even if the individual Policeman uses his discretion to not prosecute. The Policeman can prosecute below that level but is unlikely to do so unless there is some further concern related to the driving.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Geordie

I am not quite sure what you mean when you say that speeding is grey area?

Surely you are not suggesting that its ok to speed?

Please can you expand on your thinking?

 

[Val & Frank]

Ray

On the A90 they have engineered out a lot of the accident blackspots, by reducing the speed to 50 MPH and puting up a camera. Cheap as chips one might say !!!!!

Frank

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

speed is after all a relative issue what may be considerd safe in one instance may not be safe in another.

how many times have we all been travelling down the motorway @ 60ish and come up to the back end of a van doing 50mph just? with the back end swinging all over the place and you have had to go 70ish to get past quickly so as not to get sideswiped and then futher up the road seen a van zoom past doing about 75mph and as steady as a rock . which one would you consider the most unsafe?? it is not just a matter of speed.

colin

 

[mick_374320336]

Thanks for all the opinions.

The speedo being slightly out makes sense, at an indicated 60 i was stuck behind an artic which should have been limited to 56 (didn't think the speedo would be out on a '07 car)

Nice to hear all the differing views, as a biker I certainly agree that speed isn't the only factor!

Thanks asgain,

Mick.

 

[IanMc]

Thanks for all the opinions.

The speedo being slightly out makes sense, at an indicated 60 i was stuck behind an artic which should have been limited to 56 (didn't think the speedo would be out on a '07 car)

Nice to hear all the differing views, as a biker I certainly agree that speed isn't the only factor!

Thanks asgain,

Mick.

Mick

I normally travel on or about 60 mile an hour or what my speedo says is 60mph. My only concern at this speed is when coaches come past. I notice more sway of the caravan than if HGV's pass me. I don't know if you have found this problem.

Ian

 

[Geordie]

Hi John L, my reference to speeding is not trying to break land speed records but travelling at a speed which could be just over the 60mph or even more in certain circumstances.Colin-Yorkshire hits my point on the head with regards to a stable unit being towed above 60mph. I will not sit in the middle of a convoy of trucks,so sometimes that means I increase my speed to pass them and sometimes that means my speed can be 60+ but knowing my tail-end is not swaying from lane 1 to lane 3 then I dont consider my short spell speed increase a major threat.

 

[rayc]

Frank said "On the A90 they have engineered out a lot of the accident blackspots, by reducing the speed to 50 MPH and puting up a camera. Cheap as chips one might say !!!!!"

They have tried that throughout my county of Dorset and it has failed miserably in cutting the number of deaths on the counties roads. The local paper has just run a campaign entitled "Keep caranage of our roads" and in the last 2 weeks there have been at least 5 deaths in the eastern sector of Dorset alone.

There are 3 E's of Enforcement, Engineering and Education. In Dorset Education is the same as Enforcement as the education is 3 points &

 

[Meister]

It does not matter whether you agree or disagree with a particular speed limit, the law states that you MUST NOT exceed it. There can be no grey area there.

However it is true that speed in itself is not the problem in relation to road safety BUT ....... inappropriate speed IS.

Also, RAY C is quite correct with what he says about ACPO guidlines.

Steve

 

[ProfJohnL]

It does not matter whether you agree or disagree with a particular speed limit, the law states that you MUST NOT exceed it. There can be no grey area there.

However it is true that speed in itself is not the problem in relation to road safety BUT ....... inappropriate speed IS.

Also, RAY C is quite correct with what he says about ACPO guidlines.

Steve

Thank you Geordie for the clarification of your point.

I cannot agree with it, or that of Colin, both of whom advocate breaking the speed limit to suit personal desires, rather than necessity. That is illegal, and immoral.

If a vehicle in front is driving erratically or you have concerns for your safety as a result of its behaviour, you must allow more space between it and you, to enable you to manage any hazard that it might present. You only overtake when it is safe to do so, and without having to break the moving traffic regulations i.e. speeding.

Meister has it about right, and there is no just reason to deliberately exceed the speed limit simply to overtake another vehicle. And before advanced drivers and motorcyclists start protesting about creating a safe space by accelerating away from a hazard, none of the official spokespersons from these organisations will say that their organisation supports the use of speeding for any normal road activity.

The safe speed given road and outfit conditions may be lower than the prevailing official maximum speed limit for any given stretch of highway.

Some food for thought, - The ACPO guidelines are just that, they have no basis in law, but they are the way that some (but not all police forces) interpret their responsibilities in pursuing prosecution under the speed regulations. It would not be a defence in law to claim the APCO guidelines as mitigating circumstances.

Some CPO's are advocating a zero tolerance to exceeding the prescribed speed limit, so watch out.

 

[Pat_374304630]

I agree with Geordie.

 

[martin.]

If you travel up the A565 towards Formby there is a camera that tells you how fast you are going just before a left hand corner with a 4omph limit on it(doesn't need to be 40).

Now, I drive a big transit and it clocked me a few weeks ago doing 48mph, my speedo read 50mph, I went past the same camera last week in a Vauxhall Vivaro van, speedo read 56mph, camera showed 48mph.

There is also a camera on the way back at the same corner, speedo read 55mph, camera showed 52mph.

How bizarre.

 

[ProfJohnL]

It does not matter whether you agree or disagree with a particular speed limit, the law states that you MUST NOT exceed it. There can be no grey area there.

However it is true that speed in itself is not the problem in relation to road safety BUT ....... inappropriate speed IS.

Also, RAY C is quite correct with what he says about ACPO guidlines.

Steve

There should be a 'NOT supports' in the third paragragh.

 

[Ogre]

I agree entirely with Ray C on this.

The speed at which you tow should always be appropriate for the conditions and stability of your outfit.

We returned from Chew Valley Caravan Park last weekend, with our Elddis 630, along the M5 at a steady 50/60. We were passed by probably around twenty other caravans, all travelling at well over 60mph.

Now we're a bit old fashioned. To us, the object is to enjoy the journey, and get there in one piece. Time doesn't come into it. Safety and care does. Especially the safety of my wife and any passengers.

It really hacks me off when I see some of these outfits go blasting past, with a full family on board. All it takes,is one little incident............puncture, sidewind...

Worth the risk. We don't think so.

 

[Tapestry]

Hi

Over the years we have lost count of the number of times we have been towing at 50-60 on motorways and had other caravans over taking us, flying past us so to speak. A few years ago we were overtaken while doing 60 on the M1/ M42 by a on outfit that looked a good match. We sadly passed the outfit at the side of the road a few miles later, one very badly damaged caravan.

Safety to us is the most important thing.

Annette

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Annette,

In your last post you imply that the incident that befell the overtaking caravanner was precipitated by his/her speed, and that by restricting your own speed you were safe.

I feel you may have made some dangerous assumptions. Let me make it quite clear I do not condone speeding or suggest that anyone should do it. Obviously we do not know what happened, but the incident hat might have occurred could have been due to a number of causes unrelated to the drivers speed: another driver breaking suddenly, a tyre blow out, heart attack etc.

Equally even keeping to the speed limits or driving according to the conditions, these types of events can cause problems to you and your caravan.