Stolen caravans

[Big S]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/8027247.stm
The above link takes you a news event from the BBC website relating to a number of stolen caravans which have been discovered at a site in Lancashire.

The Serious and Organised Crime Unit discovered the caravans and they are valued at more than £100,000.

They had been stolen from across the UK and sold on by the thieves to innocent members of the public who did not know they were stolen.

It just goes to show that vigilance is required when buying a used caravan and the need to ensure that all documentation is available from the seller.

I for one would know what I would like to do with the thieves if I got hold of one of them.

 

[Robtel]

Didn't notice anything in the link about how many people had been charged over this. Hope they did manage to catch at least some of the theives.

Might just be me that's getting a bit too cynical in my old age but I just wonder a little about the sold on to "innocent" people. Were they really that innocent or just wanting a bargain without caring about where the caravan came from. CRIS has been about for a long time now, surely not all of the buyers didn't know about it's existence. Maybe not, as I mentioned might just be me getting too cynical.

Anyway just hope the theives are prosecuted and dealt with appropriately and not let off with a slap on the wrist, wouldn't bet on it though ( cynical again )

Robert

 

[Icemaker]

thats my opinion too rob, i can not for one moment imagine that anybody could be so stupid as to buy an item that is a known high theft risk without checking absolutely everything is above board, no way can anybody use the excuse that they where un aware of cris anymore its been around for far too long.

at the very least these "unaware(bargain)" buyers have lost the bargain and lets face it without the market theire is no need for the supply so im more than happy these people got caught even if they do claim to be innocent.

 

[starlightdj]

Hi watching late night tv Night watch,(a police camera program) a stolen caravan was pulled up on the moterway. The Police wanted to check the cris number, but stated that the checking office was only open office hours. Is this true, and is it not computerised? Do caravans only get stolen between 9-5? thanks Julia (Johns wife)

 

[ThePlotter]

Were all the vans found on the same site,if so I assume it was a travellers site

 

[mostavern]

Hi watching late night tv Night watch,(a police camera program) a stolen caravan was pulled up on the moterway. The Police wanted to check the cris number, but stated that the checking office was only open office hours. Is this true, and is it not computerised? Do caravans only get stolen between 9-5? thanks Julia (Johns wife)

yep it's only a 9 to 5 number only reason i know this is being a member of the thin blue line i found a newish van late one night last summer no number plates etc...... just had it towed until someone could check with cris the following day

 

[Chrisbee]

When I bought my first caravan I had done some research and knew of the existence of CRIS but little about it. The seller told me the previous owner had bought it from a dealer to replace a motor home and the dealer hadn't mentioned Cris, the current owner also had never heard of it. I phoned CRIS who told me (at a price)that as I didn't know the name or address of the last registered owner all they were allowed to tell me was that it wasn't reported as stolen. As it was February I worried that it could have been taken from storage and not yet missed. However, I was invited into the sellers house on two occasions and awning curtains etc were retrieved from cupboards. There was also various photo's of seller and wife on display. I took the chance and bought the van.

When I sold it 4 years later I advised the buyer to check with CRIS, of whom he had never heard, again all they would say was it wasn't reported as stolen.

So, to sum up. Three out of four buyers had never heard of CRIS, the fourth knew very little, and none of them was able to register as the owner with CRIS.

The problem is that only enthusiasts read caravan mags or forums, most first time buyers are completly unaware of the existence of CRIS.

 

[WilliamLX]

I agree fully with what Chrisbee has said. The Cris system is next to useless, especially as they charge you if you want to check the registrar (this service should be fully funded by the Caravan manufacturing industry). When I bought my first used caravan I knew nothing about it, other than that part of the code indicated the year of the caravan. I only learned more about it when I joined the CC! So I feel the comments indicating that those caravaner's who have lost their van are dishonest are unfounded and should be deleted by the moderators.

 

[Parksy]

Hi William

Although you may disagree with the comments to which you refer there are no grounds for them to be deleted because they don't break the rules of the forum.

This is because the comment was a general one and not aimed at any specific or named individual and therefore forms the basis for debate within the rules of the forum.

The topic of CRiS registration and the general awareness of it is an interesting one so if you disagree with a comment you are allowed to say so on the forum and to debate the topic.

 

[Robtel]

As with stolen goods of any description there is always someone willing to take them as a bargain without considering where they came from.

I have no doubt what Chrisbee says about the CRIS system is correct but as she/he says they did visit the seller in their own house and must have been assured to a certain degree that the seller was legit

 

[Jackie_374224453]

Hi, this is good news. Its always heartening when caravans get recovered. - Means that chances of theives selling them on get less and less as more are made aware of pitfalls of buying stolen. The CCTV of our caravan being stolen is being aired on the Caravan Channel tonight I think 7pm. on Sky 166. Its a while ago, but they are not caught and will most likely still be doing it until they are.

Although I have watched the film a thousand times, I only just realised that the person in the middle seat of the van might be female!!! (Although the police made the assumption that three males were involved - you don't see the third person during the theft, only know that they are driving the white van as it reverses up to to the caravan to drive the caravan away!)

Some female DNA was found at the scene - not known and could be unrelated, I have since been suspicious of men in unmarked transit vans near our property - but could be a female involved - best not to gender stereotype? So lets stay conscious of any suspicious activity near our vans- even female attention??

(Youtube - 'caravan stolen in broad daylight')

Regards

 

[Chrisbee]

thats my opinion too rob, i can not for one moment imagine that anybody could be so stupid as to buy an item that is a known high theft risk without checking absolutely everything is above board, no way can anybody use the excuse that they where un aware of cris anymore its been around for far too long.

at the very least these "unaware(bargain)" buyers have lost the bargain and lets face it without the market theire is no need for the supply so im more than happy these people got caught even if they do claim to be innocent.

Icemaker, don't confuse stupid with naive. When I bought my first van I wasn't aware they were a "high risk" item provided they had hitch locks fitted.

 

[Icemaker]

hi jackie, im really sorry to hear of your theft, if only we could catch some of them at it, i know we would be the ones in court for gbh and they would get away with a slapped wrist but it would be worth it.

it looks like your van may have been the same a smine a coachman vip 530/4 ours is a 2007 model, i was surprised how quickly the wheel clamp came off but more surprised at how swiftly they disabled the alarm !, the alarm sounded and within 5 seconds they had disabled it and that time included returning in to the van, our alarm is hidden away and has a battery back up within the siren did yours and if so are you aware of the method used to disable the alarm so quickly ?.

im allso interested to know which wheel clamp you had as this seemed to burn off with consumate ease, i know its illegal but i was thinking of putting some of my shotgun cartridges in to the cavity in the wheel clamp then if they attempt to burn it off they will at the very least lose a few fingers .

our van has a wheel clamp a hitch lock steady locks alarm and is behind locked gates and like you under 24 hour recorded cctv but after watching your footage im sure nothing is good enougth to stop these thieving inbread scumbags.

 

[Steve L]

Now then this might put the cat amongst the pigeons, but I was not too pleased with what I read about the CRIS scheme.

I bought our three year old van from a reputable dealer PB in Coleford Gloucs. It was sold with all the documentation intact and as such didn't give me too much cause for concern about it's history, which was probably a good thing.

I read through the blurb on the CRIS web site and found that not only do they charge you for checking your newly purchased van out, but if it turns out to be stolen they don't tell you but inform the police who will then turn up, take the van away and you, and then you will be several thousand pounds out of pocket through no fault of your own. So I can see why people don't bother with CRIS and just trust their own instinct's.

Now you might think you are protected by buying through a dealer, but they can argue that they sold the van in good faith believing thta it was genuine, thus not needing to re-emburse any lost funds by you. Of coarse you can go through small claims court but that could prove tricky and take a considerable time to resolve.

So it seems to me that the best coarse of action is to do your home work. Check the address your buying from is that on the documentation, try to get the phone number of the previous owner if the van is at a dealers forecourt via 118118, and ask if they part ex'd the van at the dealership. Contact the manufacturer to see where the van was first sold and start a trail of ownership from there. If the old numberplate was left in the van, ask the police if they could varify that the vehicle it belongs to is that of the person on the ownership documents. Those are just a few checks you can do yourself at a fraction of the cost CRIS charge for their HPI check.

So wether you use a dealer or not, the ownus is still on you to be alert and do the detective work before you part with your cash. I did my Sherlock Holmes bit and quite honestly shocked the dealer at just how much I could tell him about his van that he didn't know, and he'd done a CRIS check as a matter of coarse.

Steve L.

 

[Surfer]

I think the idea of CRIS is to check prior to purchase and not afterwards. I would rather pay a tenner now than lose several thousand pounds later.

 

[Icemaker]

well that was my thoughts too ian, i would have thought it to be common sense to check prior to actually purchasing the van then who cares if the police are called its either the dealer or the private seller that has possesion of the van not you.

i know non of us like to pay for things like this but it really is a small price to pay for peace of mind and it saves a lot of leg work trying to trace the history yourself, can you imagine asking a dealer to hang on to a van whilst you spend a few days tracing its previous owners ? the van turns out to be legitimate you return to the dealer and oops sorry we sold it to someone else ! choose another van start the prosess again.

 

[Steve L]

Nice comments boys, but I took my trusty computer with me and my phone.

Within 30 mins I had contacted the registered owner of the number plate that had been left on the back of the van, spoken to the original supplying dealership and found out who they had sold the van to. This turned out to be the same guy with the number plate.

What I did find was that the van had been damaged on the right hand rear corner by the previous owner who had it repaired, which then gave me the leaverage to get a grand knocked off. What the dealer didn't know was that the van was returned to the manufacturer for repair at their works, thus guaranteeing a "good as new" repair which was covered by warrantee.

So, one can mock and scoff all one like's but I did the homework and came out with a grade A.

Or one of my other quip's is, " you can call me what you like, BUT NEVER CALL ME LATE FOR BREAKFAST".

As for cris, what can I say. Go back to the drawing board and get the act right. They could not or would not divulge the level of info I found in 30 mins.

Steve L.

 

[Oldsalt]

I saw the footage of Jackie's caravan being stolen in broad daylight. After reading some of the comments on this post and viewing the video a thought struck me. Considering the speed used to disable the caravan alarm, the thief must have an intimate knowledge of that particular make of caravan. Everyone is assuming the thieves are from the traveller fraternity, consider this! Are the thieves people who are or have been employed in the manufacture or maintenance industry? They or he, would have the knowledge to rapidly disable an alarm. Is it a case of them targetting just Coachman caravans because they know how they are constructed?

This is just a hunch, have the police ever considered the possiblity?

 

[Soozeeg]

After we had our last van stolen, the Police told us that 'professional' thieves obtain all the latest security devices (how they obtain them is open to interpretation) and study/experiment on them until they can disable them. So that might answer your question, David.

 

[Robtel]

Going back to the original post and the link provided. Apparently all 8 caravans were found on the one site, the combined value was

 

[Icemaker]

quote"Within 30 mins I had contacted the registered owner of the number plate that had been left on the back of the van, spoken to the original supplying dealership and found out who they had sold the van to. This turned out to be the same guy with the number plate." end quote.

how did you as a member of the public obtain the personal contact details of the previous owner using the details of the number plate ?, i know its possible but by law you have to provide proof that you have a reasonable need for this information ie private parking firm wanting to issue fines etc, and even if you do have the relevant need for the information you have to apply in writing and it has to be cleared before the information is sent. it is done this way to avoid unscrupulous persons from easily obtaining details of vehicles and owners for criminal activities, ie i see a nice car for sale in auto trader get the plate details and half an hour later go round to the owners and steal the car or i see a car and caravan going down the road, its obvious they are going away so i will get theire details from the plate and then rob theire house.

im intigued since if you really can legally obtain these details so easily then we are all in trouble.

oh and the dealership you spoke to broke the data protection act by releasing any details of the previous owner and could be prosecuted for doing so.