Whilst waiting for my wife in Morrison's yesterday I took it upon myself to briefly leaf through "caravan" mag. In the Q&A section I found a question from a bemused person who had been stopped by the police for a spot check and told his outfit was "illegal" as it was an 89% match. He didn't say what the eventual outcome was but it's no wonder new caravanners get baffled when the local babylon don't know the laws on the roads they're policing.
surely not
- Thread starter mcghee
- Start date
Hello Craig,
Is this another case of the press failing to give the whole story to cause alarm?
Do we know what the outfit consisted of? perhaps the car was not listed as capable of towing the mass of caravan involved.
Until we have all the facts, it is dangerous to jump to the conclusion that the 89% was the issue.
Is this another case of the press failing to give the whole story to cause alarm?
Do we know what the outfit consisted of? perhaps the car was not listed as capable of towing the mass of caravan involved.
Until we have all the facts, it is dangerous to jump to the conclusion that the 89% was the issue.
No journalism involved ,it said clearly in the article written by the person stopped :
"I got stopped in a police roadside safety check and to my horror was told I was breaking the law because they weughed my caravan and said it was 89 per cent of the cars kerbweight and this was illegal.I'm sure I've read that the 85 per cent limit isn't legally enforceable, so what should I do?"
The jounnalistic answer was :"You are quite right etc"
You can read it in page 75 of the summer edition of "Caravan" mag.
"I got stopped in a police roadside safety check and to my horror was told I was breaking the law because they weughed my caravan and said it was 89 per cent of the cars kerbweight and this was illegal.I'm sure I've read that the 85 per cent limit isn't legally enforceable, so what should I do?"
The jounnalistic answer was :"You are quite right etc"
You can read it in page 75 of the summer edition of "Caravan" mag.
You're quite right, the question was submitted by the actual person stopped. So, back to my original question: how are new caravanners supposed to get it right when the police can come away with this nonsense?
Some of you that have been on the forum for a while will remember that i was also adviced by a good friend of mine who is a traffic police sargeant that i must stay below 85% to be legal, he was adament despite the uproar that the article received on this forum that he was correct. unfortunatelly and embarrasingly for me i was able to prove to him and his cheshire police collegues that he was in fact wrong with the help of this forum and the caravan club.
The 85% ratio is pureley a well founded recomendation and any authority would be hard pushed to get home any conviction unless the vehicle was involved in an accident which was directly attributable to the unsuitability of the tow car. Any prosecution would be further hampered by the fact that the weights shown on the VIN plate of most vehicles is the manufacturers recomendation only and not legally enforcable. However manufacturers plates fitted to light goods vehicles ie vans and other commercial vehicles are a legal requirement under Regulation 66 of the Road Vehicle Construction and use Regulations and these weight limits are legally enforcable. However I would not encourage anyone to ignore the manufacturers recomendations and remember enforcement authorities always have alternative offences to bring any offender to heal such as using a vehicle in a condition likley to cause danger.
I have not read the article, so I cannot comment on specifics, but;
Without knowledge of the tow vehicle and trailer and their weights weights we cannot judge if the police were in fact correct or not.
Consider the Vauxhall Zafira 2.0 DTI Diesel Mk1 it has a kerb weight of 1448 Kg. 85% would be 1230Kg, but Vauxhall only rate the vehicle with a towed load or 1050Kg which is only 72%. If this were the tow vehicle then 89% is illegal.
There are other vehicles where the allowed trailer MTPLM is less than the kerb weight and by some margin so it is quite possible that 89% is illegal.
Without knowledge of the tow vehicle and trailer and their weights weights we cannot judge if the police were in fact correct or not.
Consider the Vauxhall Zafira 2.0 DTI Diesel Mk1 it has a kerb weight of 1448 Kg. 85% would be 1230Kg, but Vauxhall only rate the vehicle with a towed load or 1050Kg which is only 72%. If this were the tow vehicle then 89% is illegal.
There are other vehicles where the allowed trailer MTPLM is less than the kerb weight and by some margin so it is quite possible that 89% is illegal.
I'm afraid the police are not quite as aware as they should be.
Every car has marked on it's vin plate the "gross train" weight, which even for the uninformed is the highest figure quoted on the plate. If you are contemplating towing, the first thing I'd do is go to a frnchise dealer and ask for their advice on tow limits and get them to show you where to find the gross train weight for your vehicle.
Having done the homework, go and find your matched caravan and again don't rely on sales patter. Find the weight for yourself even if it means waiting until Monday to ring a manufacturer to qualify the weights.
Having now got your pride and joy, load it as if you were going on your fortnight's holiday with all the goodies. Then go to your local farmers merchant/public weigh bridge and for about a fiver you can weigh the caravan uncoupled and then the whole outfit of car and caravan together with you at the wheel and the family inside the car. This gives a true gross train figure which then is a usefull piece of paper to educate the unsure officer when he thinks your over weight.
Of coarse if your totally confident you could insist he takes you to a public weighbridge within a reasonable distance (5miles)to prove once and for all. That amount of confidence usually sways off any dodgy prosecutions.
Every car has marked on it's vin plate the "gross train" weight, which even for the uninformed is the highest figure quoted on the plate. If you are contemplating towing, the first thing I'd do is go to a frnchise dealer and ask for their advice on tow limits and get them to show you where to find the gross train weight for your vehicle.
Having done the homework, go and find your matched caravan and again don't rely on sales patter. Find the weight for yourself even if it means waiting until Monday to ring a manufacturer to qualify the weights.
Having now got your pride and joy, load it as if you were going on your fortnight's holiday with all the goodies. Then go to your local farmers merchant/public weigh bridge and for about a fiver you can weigh the caravan uncoupled and then the whole outfit of car and caravan together with you at the wheel and the family inside the car. This gives a true gross train figure which then is a usefull piece of paper to educate the unsure officer when he thinks your over weight.
Of coarse if your totally confident you could insist he takes you to a public weighbridge within a reasonable distance (5miles)to prove once and for all. That amount of confidence usually sways off any dodgy prosecutions.
OK - I'm not commenting on technical grounds - I don't have the knowledge BUT the article says it was a spot check - I wonder WHY the police stopped him.
I have seen many vans on the road which have a definite nose down appearance - and I suspect that things like that would lead to spot checks.
There are , I'm sure , times when we may have been just outside the reccommended limit on our old van - but when you looked at it is was absolutely leve , back to front so would not attract attention.
It's the abnormal appearance or bad handling that attracts attention .
I'm still wondering how the couple we met up with in France had got that far - a large Tabbert Twin axle and a wee Passat - they had never towed before and even the driver admitted it was not handling well
Thet were trying to head into Italy - no idea where they were going - just going to Italy !!
I have seen many vans on the road which have a definite nose down appearance - and I suspect that things like that would lead to spot checks.
There are , I'm sure , times when we may have been just outside the reccommended limit on our old van - but when you looked at it is was absolutely leve , back to front so would not attract attention.
It's the abnormal appearance or bad handling that attracts attention .
I'm still wondering how the couple we met up with in France had got that far - a large Tabbert Twin axle and a wee Passat - they had never towed before and even the driver admitted it was not handling well
Thet were trying to head into Italy - no idea where they were going - just going to Italy !!Hi
I made enquiries to the local police hq on this matter to be told that i should stay within the manufacturers recommended towing limits (frequently greater than 100% of kerb weight) or max gross train weight (laden weight of car and trailer).
I made enquiries to the local police hq on this matter to be told that i should stay within the manufacturers recommended towing limits (frequently greater than 100% of kerb weight) or max gross train weight (laden weight of car and trailer).
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