Having just suffered yet another failed transformer / charger due to a power surge, I'm thinking of installing a surge protector. Ideally I'd like to fit one between the input socket and the circuit breaker box. However, I have only seen the extension lead type for sale. Does anyone know of an 'in-line' type that I could fit by cutting the cable and wiring it in? This would then protect the whole van and anything I plug in! Thanks for your help.
Surge protector
- Thread starter nineteen4ever
- Start date
The RCCD trip should be the first device after the input socket, followed by the MCB circuit breakers. Fitting anything "before" the MCBs defeats the object if a fault develops in that device.
A surge protector would have to be rated at 10A to cover one of the MCB circuits (or 16A to cover all of them).
Component failure from external power surge isn't common, could there be an inherent fault with the wiring for the on-board power supply?
A surge protector would have to be rated at 10A to cover one of the MCB circuits (or 16A to cover all of them).
Component failure from external power surge isn't common, could there be an inherent fault with the wiring for the on-board power supply?
We know there was a surge as it melted the sites elec meter! They fixed that problem last night. Before I fit my new charger (2004 Bailey Senator) I was going to purchase a surge protector. If I fit one after the mcb's would that do the trick? PS, mine was not the only van affected, and it looks like we are able to claim against the elec.company involved. In the 6 years on this site ( i work away from home ) this is my third charger, although the first in this van. Do you know of any protectors that can be wired 'in-line'?
Hello Gary,
If a surge melted the sites meter, then it must have been quite a sustained surge, and its no wonder you might have a claim against the supply company.
My thoughts are that the suppressors designed for computers and sensitive equipment are really designed to cope with the surge from a lightening strike, which lasts for milliseconds, rather than a sustained over voltage for length of time, so I suspect that such a device is not going to offer the protection against such a surge.
However there are devises called power supply conditioners, that not only provide protection against lightening, but can also limit protracted over voltage surges. Their prices have come down with the increased numbers being needed by companies trying to protect delicate systems, but they are still quite expensive, and can be very heavy.
In one form they are sold as Uninterruptible power supplies or UPS's. These usually contain a lead acid battery pack, and not only protect against surges, but also will maintain power to the connected equipment if the supply fails.
You can get 500 to 700Watt models for under
If a surge melted the sites meter, then it must have been quite a sustained surge, and its no wonder you might have a claim against the supply company.
My thoughts are that the suppressors designed for computers and sensitive equipment are really designed to cope with the surge from a lightening strike, which lasts for milliseconds, rather than a sustained over voltage for length of time, so I suspect that such a device is not going to offer the protection against such a surge.
However there are devises called power supply conditioners, that not only provide protection against lightening, but can also limit protracted over voltage surges. Their prices have come down with the increased numbers being needed by companies trying to protect delicate systems, but they are still quite expensive, and can be very heavy.
In one form they are sold as Uninterruptible power supplies or UPS's. These usually contain a lead acid battery pack, and not only protect against surges, but also will maintain power to the connected equipment if the supply fails.
You can get 500 to 700Watt models for under
Sorry to hear that, but as Roger says - any surge protector needs to be installed after the caravan "trips" - and I have doubts that any sensible cost surge protector would help you.
Surge protectors are widely used in (professional - not home) computer installations - and they work (usually a thyristor or gas discharge device) by dumping excess voltage (and current) to Earth - incidentally this may also trip the RCCD (slower acting than the surge protector)
The usual over-voltage specification for a 230 V surge protector is 400 V or 500 V protection - any voltage below that limit is let-through as normal (there are product life-time issues if you have the let-through voltage set too low - each time the device triggers it dumps large amounts of current - and this shortens it's life - they are a consumable item - some only last one triggering)
Then there is how much power they can handle - surge protectors are rated by power disipation in Joules - 1 Watt is equal to 3.6 Joules - and the spike that killed the site power would have been many thousands of Joules...
In our office in Rotterdam, we have multiple 1000 Joule protectors (good starting specification) and these will handle "instantaneous" surge currents of more than 25,000 Amps. Note - the cheap home surge protects have a power limit of 200 Joules - and nearly every power surge will be much more than this - so they offer no real protection at all.
But - if the site power supply "melted" then you would need a significant surge protector to deal with that spike - so you may be in a "grin and bear it" situation - the cost of a worthwhile protector could easily buy you several new power supplies...
Robert
Surge protectors are widely used in (professional - not home) computer installations - and they work (usually a thyristor or gas discharge device) by dumping excess voltage (and current) to Earth - incidentally this may also trip the RCCD (slower acting than the surge protector)
The usual over-voltage specification for a 230 V surge protector is 400 V or 500 V protection - any voltage below that limit is let-through as normal (there are product life-time issues if you have the let-through voltage set too low - each time the device triggers it dumps large amounts of current - and this shortens it's life - they are a consumable item - some only last one triggering)
Then there is how much power they can handle - surge protectors are rated by power disipation in Joules - 1 Watt is equal to 3.6 Joules - and the spike that killed the site power would have been many thousands of Joules...
In our office in Rotterdam, we have multiple 1000 Joule protectors (good starting specification) and these will handle "instantaneous" surge currents of more than 25,000 Amps. Note - the cheap home surge protects have a power limit of 200 Joules - and nearly every power surge will be much more than this - so they offer no real protection at all.
But - if the site power supply "melted" then you would need a significant surge protector to deal with that spike - so you may be in a "grin and bear it" situation - the cost of a worthwhile protector could easily buy you several new power supplies...
Robert
Hi Gary i would like to know where this "surge" happened in the uk?? as i have some info that could help!!
It happened on a small site near Stansted Airport. I haven't got the full gen yet but it seems it was loose cables where the elec. comes onto the site. Had some blokes come round yesterday, checked the van out, all ok, gave me a form and said a cheque would be in the post for the damaged charger! Will find out soon off the site owner what the actual cause was.
Spoke to site owner and he said the negative on the site transformer had corroded through, apparently sending it to earth which in turn caused fluctuations in supply from 215v to 260v. I'm no leccy by the way. Several vans had damaged chargers, set top boxes, tv's etc and all are being replaced by the elec.co. insurers! Still would like an inline protector of some sort if anyone can help, cheers!!
Hi Gary,
A surge protector probably won't help - the let-through voltage
for a UK mains device is usually 400 V AC or 500 V AC. So a surge protector wouldn't have tripped with a "spike" of 265 V
But what the site owner told you doesn't exactly sound right - I'd assume that the site power was three phase - and that the fault you saw from the corroded transformer - caused two phases to mix. That would certainly cause the damage you've described.
But again a surge protector wouldn't have helped - it might have detected two mixed phases as a "spike" - but surge protectors are only designed to dump power for a fraction of a second.
Explicitly a surge protector is designed to handle the surge after a lightning strike - and not a long "burn-out" from a faulty transformer
Dumping mains power to earth will kill the surge protector after that fraction of a second (if it melted the site meter - it will melt a surge protector) and then you'd have a burnt out surge protector and a burnt out caravan power supply.
But if you want one - then a Zymax Z420 or better - is the type you can fit at the mains entry point and is available in an IP55 enclosure. But they won't be cheap.
Robert
A surge protector probably won't help - the let-through voltage
for a UK mains device is usually 400 V AC or 500 V AC. So a surge protector wouldn't have tripped with a "spike" of 265 V
But what the site owner told you doesn't exactly sound right - I'd assume that the site power was three phase - and that the fault you saw from the corroded transformer - caused two phases to mix. That would certainly cause the damage you've described.
But again a surge protector wouldn't have helped - it might have detected two mixed phases as a "spike" - but surge protectors are only designed to dump power for a fraction of a second.
Explicitly a surge protector is designed to handle the surge after a lightning strike - and not a long "burn-out" from a faulty transformer
Dumping mains power to earth will kill the surge protector after that fraction of a second (if it melted the site meter - it will melt a surge protector) and then you'd have a burnt out surge protector and a burnt out caravan power supply.
But if you want one - then a Zymax Z420 or better - is the type you can fit at the mains entry point and is available in an IP55 enclosure. But they won't be cheap.
Robert
Thank you Rob. What you described is (more or less) what happened. I take it you flog these things by the way you describe them ha ha! It's just that one van has protection due to the manner of his job, ie. computers, and all was well . He was the only one to escape!! Ah well, we'll see. thanks again.
Gaz
Gaz
Hi Gary,
No we don't flog them, but we do use them - my company in Rotterdam designs "stuff" for petroleum refineries and we have 100+ PC and process control computers protected with Zymax MMOV lightning surge protectors - at least that way the insurance company will pay if they do go phut...
Your guy with the computer was probably just lucky - or was on a different phase of the electrical supply - which is also down to luck...
Most of the surge protectors you can buy in PC World (or a real PC shop or even somewhere good) are designed to protect low power devices (like a PC or LCD screen) attached via a UK mains plug - rather than a complete "system". And system protection means Zymax type stuff and $$$...
Robert
No we don't flog them, but we do use them - my company in Rotterdam designs "stuff" for petroleum refineries and we have 100+ PC and process control computers protected with Zymax MMOV lightning surge protectors - at least that way the insurance company will pay if they do go phut...
Your guy with the computer was probably just lucky - or was on a different phase of the electrical supply - which is also down to luck...
Most of the surge protectors you can buy in PC World (or a real PC shop or even somewhere good) are designed to protect low power devices (like a PC or LCD screen) attached via a UK mains plug - rather than a complete "system". And system protection means Zymax type stuff and $$$...
Robert
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