Tesla Issue!

[JCNUFC1991]

Hello

So a few of you might have read my other post explaining that we’d just bought a caravan and drive a Tesla Model Y.

It was only when we came to hook the caravan onto the back of the car when I realised a problem with the ATC not working.

Turns out that the 13 pin plug on the Model Y doesn’t have the permanent 12V live that the ATC requires!

Not sure that there’s too many EV owners on here but want to ask whether there’s another way of getting this to work? Perhaps getting the ATC connected to the 12V leisure battery?

What else would that 12V feed from the 13pin plug usually supply?

Thanks

 

[JTQ]

Cars not being provided with live 12 vDC feeds to tow sockets are far from uncommon, its not an issue unique to Tesla cars.

Any reputable tow bar fitter will find a solution that picks up both the required positive and ground connection that remain "live".
Note it has to enable a quite high current drain as the ATC needs a feed fused to 20 Amps to be confident of meeting the ATC's intermittent higher power draw that "can" be met as it actuates.

 

[JCNUFC1991]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Does an ATC engage often? How much “snaking” needs to occur before it begins to do its thing?

Just wondering whether it’s better to not have it connected for the Tesla battery?

 

[otherclive]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Does an ATC engage often? How much “snaking” needs to occur before it begins to do its thing?

Just wondering whether it’s better to not have it connected for the Tesla battery?

ATC can be working quite frequently. One area where it will work is when you go around roundabouts. So you don’t need a snake before it cuts in. The aim being to intercede early.

 

[JTQ]

The ATC takes a very low sustained power draw to power its electronics, its "brain".
How frequently it decides to actuate depends on many factors, the units inherent "stability" and both the terrain driven over and the driving style of the driver. As "Clive" states roundabouts can provoke its reassuring "tug" as it lightly applies the van's brakes.
All said the amount of energy it needs is really minimal, its just the odd peaks in power when it decides to activate.

Its "dumb" in that it only senses the sways and rolls, not the related vehicle speed so the sway energy and thats implications. It can activate at walking pace on say a lumpy field where snaking is never going to occur.
So it can be quite active, but far from only on occasions where it tames snakes.

In no way is it a system to tame an unstable unit, its a system to stabilise an otherwise stable unit that encounters the potential motion that might provoke a snake.
If doing otherwise the van's brakes would quickly be burnt out.

With a safe unit, one that is inherently stable within the normal use envelope, its activity and power sapping is never going to be an issue. I do unplug the van on long multi hour ferry trips, but most don't and drive off without issues on docking.
IMO you are very wise to get it working, its a great safety aid, if ever it meets the rare situation it has to be.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Does an ATC engage often? How much “snaking” needs to occur before it begins to do its thing?

Just wondering whether it’s better to not have it connected for the Tesla battery?

For the ATC to work - which means its monitoring the sensors not necessarily acting to pull the brakes on, it needs continuous low power whilst you are towing. That is why the manufacturer specifies it should be connected to a permanent 12V supply from the tow vehicle.

The caravan battery is not classed as a suitable permanent supply.

The vast majority of trailers being towed are not caravans, so the permanent 12V feed through the twin 7pin or 13pin plugs is an extra that you have to ask for, however they car manufacture should have allowed for it if a customer asks for it.

Tesla are no different in that respect, and they should be quite capable of providing a suitable 12V feed.

 

[JCNUFC1991]

They told me there’s no way of doing it.

I did ask them if there was a way of taking a supply from the cigarette lighter which they told me was also not possible but I don’t see why that wouldn’t work?

 

[JTQ]

Post removed.

The issue is that has [typically] a max rating of only 10 Amps, whereas here you need 20 Amps.

 

[Gafferbill]

.....the 13 pin caravan wiring that applies to ICE vehicles supplies 12 volts dc. as a permanent feed to the caravan and this circuit is a secondary supply for the 12 volt systems in the caravan if switch on.
The permanent feed from the tow vehicle also powers the caravan's ATC....as has been said.
The permanent feed from the tow vehicle also charges the leisure battery and this feature is switched automatically when the 12 volt refrigerator circuit is live after engine start up.

I have no idea how these functions can be wired on an EV towcar.

 

[JTQ]

My thoughts if faced with doing this and if no better solutions can be tendered by asking on a Tesla forum.

With a small mod(*) a solution is to have a small battery securly housed and strapped in the boot area; a small LA of circa 40ish Ah, or a motorbike, golf trolly or disabled scooter type. It of course has to be nominally a 12vDC unit. Housed in the boot the wiring ough to be of limited challenge.
I would lean towards a Lithium technology type on several counts if the budget is there.
The intent to be recharge this say between outings, as the energy taken has to be quite small though the power peaks are quite high. Here the better portability of a small light weight battery is IMO an attraction, together with connecting using "Andeson" plug/socket connection.

(*) The "small mod" is to break the connection to the van's battery to avoid the extra battery paralleling up with that. Solutions to breaking that interconnection could simply be the removal of a fuse,

Asking AL-KO UK technical team might yield a solution or at least an informed idea of the energy capacity (Ah) battery you should go for to get a couple of trips at least between recharging.

 

[Tobes]

Only just seen this. I tow with an EV (not a Tesla) and am a member of several forums (Facebook based).
My understanding is that Tesla uses a 16v (rather than 12v) low voltage system. While support for lighting is not an issue the support for the higher current loads (ATC and fridge) are not connected.

Join here and ask for lots of experience from other Tesla Y and 3 towers.
If you are seeing a weird arabic font here - I have no idea why!

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[Tobes]

@JCNUFC1991 Here is one such post.

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قم بتسجيل الدخول إلى فيسبوك لبدء المشاركة والتواصل مع أصدقائك وعائلتك والأشخاص الذين تعرفهم.

www.facebook.com

 

[JCNUFC1991]

Hello thanks for the reply

I don’t have Facebook unfortunately. Is there any helpful advice on there which you think may be beneficial to me?

Thanks

 

[Tobes]

Hello thanks for the reply

I don’t have Facebook unfortunately. Is there any helpful advice on there which you think may be beneficial to me?

Thanks

The consensus is that Tesla have not (and probably won’t) fix it - so folks are suggesting this sort of thing.

I ran 2 live feeds from the caravan leisure battery, via switches, to power the fridge and ATC. I have a solar panel so that keeps the battery topped up whilst on the move. TBH I haven't used the one for the fridge as I haven't been too far.......yet. The wires come into my caravan at the front just near the Alde boiler. Coachman 545. Hope this helps.

 

[JTQ]

With the fridges sometimes pulling about 160-170 Watts, so we are talking of quite sustained duration of current drains around 14 Amps this presents a serious amount of energy draw and with it issues, whatever technology or capacity battery realistically is used in the caravan.
A complete "no no" if our typical LA 100ish Ah. Even with an initially very healthy, quality and right duty battery you would after three hours be into battery punishing times; if other than very healthy or a battery designed for the wrong duty, way earlier.

I would definitely leave the fridge feed out of this, as typically other than in the UK is the normal practice.
From direct experience of many ferry trips into upwards of 5 hours, not powering the fridge has not been any real issue.
Driving in this respect is like being on the ferry, it's not as if anyone is opening and closing the fridge on route.

It's a wholly different situation with the ATC, that's steady state current draw is miniscule with only a few seconds of high current draw if and when it activates, there, the amount of energy taken is small.

 

[Tobes]

With the fridges sometimes pulling about 160-170 Watts, so we are talking of quite sustained duration of current drains around 14 Amps this presents a serious amount of energy draw and with it issues, whatever technology or capacity battery realistically is used in the caravan.
A complete "no no" if our typical LA 100ish Ah. Even with an initially very healthy, quality and right duty battery you would after three hours be into battery punishing times; if other than very healthy or a battery designed for the wrong duty, way earlier.

I would definitely leave the fridge feed out of this, as typically other than in the UK is the normal practice.
From direct experience of many ferry trips into upwards of 5 hours, not powering the fridge has not been any real issue.
Driving in this respect is like being on the ferry, it's not as if anyone is opening and closing the fridge on route.

It's a wholly different situation with the ATC, that's steady state current draw is miniscule with only a few seconds of high current draw if and when it activates, there, the amount of energy taken is small.

I think thats sound advice. Peak draw on a specific fridge model can be looked up, and solar charging will likely be limited. Using a deeper draw battery (e.g. LiFePO) might give you a longer sustainable fridge time, but ice packs may be easier and cheaper as a solution.