They don't make em like they used to do do.

[Parksy]

From my visits to France I’ve learnt no country wins a war they just all lose, some lose more than others

I tend to agree with that statement in general, though all of us that have seen the elephant would like to think that there was a reason for it and in the end we did some good. Plus I dread to think of the world we would live in had Nazi Germany been victorious in the replay. Take a stroll around Dachau, Mauthausen or Auschwitz and its plain to see that we at least had a moral victory.

The cemetery at Caen contains an awful lot that were killed in Operation Goodwood, a proper debacle if ever there was one. I know what you mean about lines of men from the same Regts, but take a look at some of the WW1 Cemeteries, in particular the larger ones like Tyne Cot. We visited that on a typical Paschendaele day, General Rain had arrived, it was misty and a piper was playing.

Some of the smaller ones too can be very emotive, the Devons Cemetery on the Somme for one. On the gate is the sentiment "The Devons held this trench, they hold it still". The French "Trench of the Bayonets" is also very emotive. Many people see the War Graves and yes, they are moved, but to them its just another cemetery, but dig deeper and every cemetery has a story too. Take the German Cemetery at Langemarck. By the way, Langemarck is where Britiain first used poison gas. By the entrance is a small garden surrounded by an 18 inch wall. People entering see a shrub garden, it is actually the mass grave of over 25000 German soldiers. On the Menin Gate is listed the names of many Indian Regiments, with names straight from a Hollywood movie. 45th Rattrays Sikhs as an example.
For anyone visiting the battlefields, there are a series of books called Major and Mrs Holts Battlefield Guides and they cover all the cemeteries and their hidden stories in great detail. The War graves Commision also do Michelin maps with all the cemeteries overlaid on them, and what a sight that is.

As for the younger generation, fair play to the lads that did both Gulfs and Afghan, but its no secret that virtually every battalion is way below nominal strength, which may say something about the current young generation.

A Birmingham choir that I sing with embarked upon a singing tour of Belgium last year, and besides singing in Bruges and Ghent Cathedrals, we laid wreaths on behalf of various Birmingham organisations and sang at Tyne Cot CWGC cemetery and Essex Farm, a CWGC cemetery which was a dressing station during World War 1.
Lt. Colonel John McRae was a physician at Essex Farm where he wrote the well known war poem 'In Flanders Fields'.
We laid a wreath on the grave of an uncle of one of our singers and sang the musical adaptation of that poem, a very moving part of our tour..
We were honoured to be invited to sing at the Last Post ceremony at Menin Gate, Leper (Ypres) before we left.

As for present day recruitment, yes most regiments are well below strength, but I shouldn't imagine that the prospect of a potential criminal trial many years further down the line is much of an inducement for young people to join the army these days.

 

[camel]

Totally agree about criminal trials for doing you duty and following orders,

 

[Thingy]

As for present day recruitment, yes most regiments are well below strength, but I shouldn't imagine that the prospect of a potential criminal trial many years further down the line is much of an inducement for young people to join the army these days.

Yeah, don't get me started on that one.

Parksy, been to Essex Farm too, one of many many that I have visited. My great grandfather is listed on Thiepval as one of the missing. Vimy Ridge and the Tunnels is well worth a visit, as is Delville (Devils) Wood and the South African Memorial. WW1 is my real interest, and I have studied the Western Front intensely, but always from the commonwealth troops positions. My next step is to spend some time visiting the French positions, i.e. Verdun and Chemin des Dames, and of course the Ossuary.

 

[Parksy]

I've been an amateur student of recent military history since I was a young boy Thingy, and I am old and lucky enough to have had good conversations with neighbours and relatives including my own grandfather who served on the Western Front, and to have read some excellent books which are difficult to source nowadays.
Apart from reading the translation of the superb work 'All Quiet on the Western Front' by Eric Maria Remarque my own studies were confined to the Allied, Commonwealth and Empire side, particularly the RFC (later the RAF)
I've never been able to complete a battlefield tour, it's on my bucket list for one day.
As time marched on I studied aspects of the Second World War, in particular the British and later Allied bomber offensive.
The old RAF and USAAF airfield sites in the UK are accessible to me and I have visited many of them.
My earlier point about the generational issue stems partly from this.
Europe had been through a horrific period of bloodshed, scarcely a family remained untouched by World War 1 but the next generation (many of whom were regarded as having 'long hair' by the standards of those days, particularly fighter pilots for some reason) still answered the call to arms.
It's all too easy to traduce the younger generation, but you never know......

 

[Thingy]

Apart from reading the translation of the superb work 'All Quiet on the Western Front' by Eric Maria Remarque my own studies were confined to the Allied, Commonwealth and Empire side, particularly the RFC (later the RAF)

One of the bset is "The War the Infantry Knew). It was out of circulation for a long time., I have an original, but there has been a recent print run. Its by a Captain J.C Dunn.

I've never been able to complete a battlefield tour, it's on my bucket list for one day.

There may be a Jolly Boys Outing in this, perhaps a Woosiewarfest. Would anyone be interested?

It's all too easy to traduce the younger generation, but you never know......

If I knew what that meant, I might agree Its like the latest advert for the forces with a geek playing computer games and telling him his country needs him. Naw, wouldnae wanna share a foxhole with him. B)
Part of the recruitment problem is that when your nation becomes all PC you lose that flavour of jingoism which has sustained recruitment in past emergencies. The regulars and terriers that went to Afghan did a good job considering there is now a rule book, but I didnt see the youth queuing outside the recruiting offices to sign up.

My dad was RAF, an officers batman. His last post was batman to Johnny Kent at Tangmere. Kent commanded the Poles that became the highest scoring squadron in WW2, currently depicted in the new movie Hurricane. Kent apparently was a bit of a "stickler" and was forever banging on about Air Force Blue. Some National Servicemen my dad knew had enough and towards the end of their time, they painted his dog blue. Kent apparently went ballistic. The old man swears he wasnt involved. He did however get some polish on the cheap and sold it to his mates. About a week after using it, all their boots and shoes came apart as it rotted the stitching.

 

[Parksy]

The Jolly Boys Outing to the battlefields and cemetery's is a great idea Thingy.
I get what you mean about the geek in the foxhole, but the chances are that the geek would be in a nice clean portacabin as a rear echelon (I won't reproduce the remainder ) watching glass screens.
You'd need Craig Young's aggressive rowdy troublesome squad.
I love the blue dog story and your Fathers boot polish enterprise - class! :lol:

 

[Thingy]

A Birmingham choir that I sing with embarked upon a singing tour of Belgium last year, and besides singing in Bruges and Ghent Cathedrals, we laid wreaths on behalf of various Birmingham organisations and sang at Tyne Cot CWGC cemetery and Essex Farm, a CWGC cemetery which was a dressing station during World War 1.

Go on then, as nobody else has picked up on this one, Ill be the fall guy. B)
What did you sing?
Madamoselle from Armentieres, Three German Officers, Kaiser Bill is feeling ill, If you want the old battalion, and of course, They were only playing leapfrog.

Old soldiers never die, but the young ones wish they would :cheer: