Too many beds, not enough seats?

[Oldfogey]

I know a lot of people go caravanning with their familly, but it strikes me that there an aweful lot occupied by only 2 people, who, in order to get the space they want, have bought a 4 or even 6 berth with no intention of ever having that many people on board.

I was told a few years back that there was no way of fitting a fixed double in a van, and no market for it anyway, so I wonder if there is an opportunity out there for a design as follows;

Full size fixed double.

Decent bathroom with separate shower.

Proper kitchen with generous worktop.

Dining area with 2 permanent seats + table extension and 2 folding seats, for guests.

Proper armchair style seating.

What you would have is a 20' 2-berth, but really comfortable for long trips and no need for an awning (except perhaps a quick pitch porch to keep wet coats in).

Bear in mind that most caravans are pretty much hand-built inside, so a low volume model should not be too expensive.

What do people think?

 

[Rioja]

I think you have come up with my dream van.

Just one slight problem,fitting it into 20'.

 

[Oldfogey]

Just roughed it out, appros as follows;

4'6" double across the rear.

Along the right hand (off, or starboard)side -

6' for bathroom

6' for dinnette

3'6" for (fixed) armchair and ledge acroos the front as coffee table.

Along the left hand (near or port) side -

2' wardrobe

8' kitchen

2' door

3'6" armchair

20' both sides.

no clothes drawers? under the dinette seats.

How does that work?

 

[Guest]

Our van is some what customized kitchen wise and sleeping, we use it as fixed bed when it's two of us and have a 6'7' by 5'+ bed and a huge lounge. But by not actually having a fixed bed it gives us flexibility for our granddaughters to join us and even our daughter this summer when she had a few days free.

I hate huge bathroom space and have altered the shower set up and its finish to suit our needs.

I wonder some times if I'm the only one that more than often puts a full sized awning up on my own.

It's so easy, I can't see why so many beef about awnings!

But I agree that there should be more flexibility in van layouts for people to order their own preferences.

 

[chrisn7]

It seems to me plenty of people use their full size awnings, but I guess it depenfds on how long you are away for. We use the porch awning for short stays and the main awning for main hols.

I agree that they are easy to put up as long as you get the sequence right, but all those b----y pegs! Perhaps this is one those areas where some awning designer could come up with a solution thats easier on the back than so many pegs..

 

[stu_766963]

I would almost agree with your perfect van Oldfogey except for one item,

the wife and I have NEVER used the "shower" our van because there are much better ones on-site. and so, our perfect van would be much as you described but without the need for the separate shower.

 

[Oldfogey]

Leave out the shower and you get even more space, or a shorter van.

Use an awning and you can manage with an even shorter van - and you get what we use; a 12' van with 4'6" bed across the back, 4' of kitchen on each side, then a drawer unit and dinette at the front. The lounge is in the awning, and a portaloo sits in the awning extension for those late wet nights far from the facility block.

The basic concept, however, remains to have a van with only the beds you need, and proper seating.

 

[Guest]

There are vans, particularly the continental ones where a front fixed bed is becoming the norm. They use an island bed where the 'crawling over someone in the night' is not an issue. They also have separate dinettes and showers. There may be a question in what you define as a 'proper kitchen'. I assume you mean full cooker, which does take up a lot of useful space. Continental vans usually have larger fridges and no ovens.

Of course the dinette also can be made into a double bed so by definition your 2 berth is already a 4 berth. However, Hymer do offer a 'bar version' on their motorhomes where the double dinette is swopped for a table and 2 armchairs. They could maybe be persuaded to modify a van similarly.

The main issue is making a model that appeals to the widest possible market, otherwise the economics don't work. Carlight used to make bespoke vans but remember the costs?

 

[Oldfogey]

Being woken in the night doesn't bother me, so I wouldn't find the "dead" space each side of the bed a good deal - though many might!

I did consider a van where the bed would have been at the front, but the downside is that on most sites I have used where you are near some sort of boundary, you want the seating at the front so that you can look at the view.

I had assumed the dinette was for 2 (as in my van), temporarily extendable to 4 for guests. Convertible dinettes can, however, work reasonably well provided they don't use the table for the infill.

Perhaps what we need is a company that will sell an "empty" van to fit out how you want?

 

[Guest]

Ironically our friends in the motorhome stable are better catered for in this respect. They have a number of Companies who will either modify an existing layout, or build to your own design. Of course always at a price which is proportional to how far you wish to deviate from an existing design.

The caravan industry seems to have ignored this side of the business altogether. It may be due to different constraints when modifying an existing van rather than a trailer body.

I would only suggest that you look at some of the European manufacturers, and by that I mean the domestic Dutch, German or French products as there is usually a far larger choice of layouts on offer than with either UK manufacturers, or distributors. Of course the door will be on the offside, but as the owner of such a van I can assure you it makes not the slightest difference.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Scotch lad

I can think of at lesat two reasons why the caravan industry do not offer bespoke design services for customers.

Firstly is the fact that they have productio lines which are set up for a range of standard product. To introduce turnkey options woudl significantly distupt production.

And secondly, teh caravan derives some essential body strength from teh internal fittings. Changing or removing some would affect the teh overall package.

Conversly motohomes are assembled on production lines but thier volumes are much lower and a greater deal of hand finishing goes on, so adding customer designes is a little easier, also teh strength of eth body is primarily derived from teh vehicle chassis, so teh positioning of internal features is less important.

This gives the motorhome manufacture more latitude in design and finish.

 

[Guest]

John,

I agree, and disagree, if that sounds sensible.

Yes, all you state is true, but many motorhome manufacturers also run production lines with similar numbers to caravans. I also agree that you can get a smaller manufacturer to do bespoke items, but why not also caravans? I reckon it is more to do with supply and demand rather than anything else. Motorhomes also tend to use standard internal furniture packs, in fact many are identical in either caravan or motorhome and as a coachbuilt body is made of exactly the same materials as a caravan, it has the same restrictions. ALKO supply the chassis and this is merely 2 channels with a set of wheels at the back. Not much different to a caravan. Van bodies I agree are different, but here the curvatures makes hand finishing a necessity more often than not.

I still feel it is down to demand. It is a similar story if you are looking for something that will accomodate a disabled person. Motorhomes have a market for this in sufficient numbers to justify interest from manufacturers, in caravans the market is almost non-existent.

 

[Oldfogey]

A few years ago I was into sailing, and had an 8-berth sailing boat on the Solent.

I used to buy several yachting magazines, which were full of technical information about designing, building, maintaining etc. all sorts of boats - and these were mags targetted at the ordinary boat owner.

In the yard where I kept my boat there were at least 3 people building their own boat, from the keel up, in order to set off as liveaboard cruisers around the world - and this was quite a common feature.

Inland Waterways have the same culture.

This is a much more sophisticated operation than anything involved in a caravan, so why do you never see articles or discussion about building or fitting out your own caravan?

 

[Chrissylizzie]

I posted a few weeks ago to say that after having looked at virtually every 'van available, the van I WOULD like is just not made. We have finally settled on one as it met MOST of our preferences but not all, so being able to design your own, at a reasonable cost, would be ideal. We looked at so many and, in fairness, almost every one had a few good points, but also several less desirable ones, so to be able to incorporate most of these would be brilliant.

 

[popupJohn]

In this day and age there must come a time when a manufacturer will start to produce and sell a structually sound but bare shell for the handyman to DIY to his own perfection and standard.

OK I do realise weight and logical thinking will be needed to do this but so many people now take on awesome tasks to satisfy their needs its got to be feasable.

What a great retirement project it would make the owner