So Bailey have been awarded Range of the year with their Senator series 5. Do you agree with the decision. Try to be objective with your answers. I will give my opinion after seeing some of yours.
Tourer of the Year
- Thread starter Hainswood
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--- Of The Year competitions are a complete farce. The winner is usually the company which has lobbied the judges the most. They often go where a sympathy vote is appropriate. Restricting entry to "this years" new models makes for unrealistic comparisons.
I wouldn't touch a Car Of The Year, Tow Car Of the Year or Tourer Of The Year with a barge pole.
A proper --- Of The Year competition would be decided solely by the public which have to pay their own good money for a product.
I wouldn't touch a Car Of The Year, Tow Car Of the Year or Tourer Of The Year with a barge pole.
A proper --- Of The Year competition would be decided solely by the public which have to pay their own good money for a product.
yes tourer of the year the last few years is starting to look more like bailey of the year.to be fair bailey do seem to listen to what their customers want and they seem to be pushing forwards slightly on issues such as body integrity and warranties.on the other hand it takes them forever and a day to deliver a new van,and theyre not really doing anything that some foreign manufacturers havent been doing for years.there are half a dozen foreign vans id take before id look at a bailey.to answer tonys question,i personally wouldnt buy a kia,they caught my eye originally,but like most eastern cars i was put off when i opened the door.i also know someone who towed a superstorm with a sorrento and said it wouldnt drive in a staight line.ive also heard the 2nd hand values at nearly new are shocking.good news if you do like them.its your own taste i suppose.
They do have a nice range of vans with some nice fittings. I had the choice earlier this year of a baily or the Ace.
Why choose the ACE? well the dealer sells lots of bailies, and his comment made me not buy. His comment was this.
Baily are flooding the market at the moment, making as many as they can and selling cheaper than the others. this is great now, but in a few years there will be lots on the second hand market and dealers will be avoiding them to get other vans so that they show a good range. This will have the effect of dropping the second hand values as supply outstrips demand.
The idea of a lower value worries me, it may not be much, but it will be lower
Steve
Why choose the ACE? well the dealer sells lots of bailies, and his comment made me not buy. His comment was this.
Baily are flooding the market at the moment, making as many as they can and selling cheaper than the others. this is great now, but in a few years there will be lots on the second hand market and dealers will be avoiding them to get other vans so that they show a good range. This will have the effect of dropping the second hand values as supply outstrips demand.
The idea of a lower value worries me, it may not be much, but it will be lower
Steve
Yea but yea but yea but
In PC or was it Caravan Mag the reviewer said that the Bailey spec(in his opinion) would cot 3K more in other makes.
I was so impressed with the van (not the review)that I ordered a new Senator Oklahoma and have had to wait 6 months for delivery.
Think of the interest on or the interesting things you could do with that 3K.
It was in a magazine so it must be true!!
At the end of the day you will lose on a caravan and having a van that you like most is preferable to one that will possibly depreciate less.(in someone's opinion who has possibly a bigger profit margin or availability )
Just a thought
See if I care !!!
In PC or was it Caravan Mag the reviewer said that the Bailey spec(in his opinion) would cot 3K more in other makes.
I was so impressed with the van (not the review)that I ordered a new Senator Oklahoma and have had to wait 6 months for delivery.
Think of the interest on or the interesting things you could do with that 3K.
It was in a magazine so it must be true!!
At the end of the day you will lose on a caravan and having a van that you like most is preferable to one that will possibly depreciate less.(in someone's opinion who has possibly a bigger profit margin or availability )
Just a thought
See if I care !!!
We went to look at the bailey senator range at barrons last week and i have to be honest we did not like them, Why well they just appeared to be boring too much flat surface which made the work tops look far too deep, totally agree with trying to get more work surface but not by making it deeper, it just protruded in to the van so much it was ugly. we found that bailey still had not got the quality of finnish right, far too much mastick oozing out of joints and screws that had not been inserted straight, the locker doors where even more flimsy that the ones on my ace which you will probably know i'm not impressed with at all, a shower that is not totally sealed and a total waste of space, why ? its a caravan that is prone is to damp, does anybody really need a shower that big, should have been more storage space not a drip tray. and bailey still have not adressed the issue of limited seating space in the front of the wyoming, four adults are shoulder to shoulder its that small. a good friend is a bailey fan and he has opted to keep his 2003 wyoming as he feels it is better than the new version. As for the tourer of the year i agree with Robertl its a total farce, a tourer can only be judged after it has been in use with a family for a year or so, not by a few journalists who have been fed good food and wine all day by the manufacturer.
You pays your money and you takes your choice.One man's meat etcWe went to look at the bailey senator range at barrons last week and i have to be honest we did not like them, Why well they just appeared to be boring too much flat surface which made the work tops look far too deep, totally agree with trying to get more work surface but not by making it deeper, it just protruded in to the van so much it was ugly. we found that bailey still had not got the quality of finnish right, far too much mastick oozing out of joints and screws that had not been inserted straight, the locker doors where even more flimsy that the ones on my ace which you will probably know i'm not impressed with at all, a shower that is not totally sealed and a total waste of space, why ? its a caravan that is prone is to damp, does anybody really need a shower that big, should have been more storage space not a drip tray. and bailey still have not adressed the issue of limited seating space in the front of the wyoming, four adults are shoulder to shoulder its that small. a good friend is a bailey fan and he has opted to keep his 2003 wyoming as he feels it is better than the new version. As for the tourer of the year i agree with Robertl its a total farce, a tourer can only be judged after it has been in use with a family for a year or so, not by a few journalists who have been fed good food and wine all day by the manufacturer.
We met a couple at Warwick who were taking a 5K loss on their 2005 (but not 5 series) Wyoming because they didn't like it.
I have seen one Bailey Senator at Catterick that had a poor finish but lots more that have been superb so its pot luck on who wields the sandpaper on the line.
As mine is now due for build week 1 I hope that Santa's sack for Bailey contains plenty of sandpaper/glassey paper (pun on my name!!)
its purely my opinion john and no reflection on anybodys personal purchasing habits. i was purely giving my honest opinion on the bailey van as was asked by the original poster. enjoy your new van, i'm sure it will provide many good nights away.You pays your money and you takes your choice.One man's meat etc
We met a couple at Warwick who were taking a 5K loss on their 2005 (but not 5 series) Wyoming because they didn't like it.
I have seen one Bailey Senator at Catterick that had a poor finish but lots more that have been superb so its pot luck on who wields the sandpaper on the line.
As mine is now due for build week 1 I hope that Santa's sack for Bailey contains plenty of sandpaper/glassey paper (pun on my name!!)
Hi Icemaker very pleased to read your comments and not offended !!!!
I have to agree about the mastic oozing out of the roof joints.
I have to agree about the mastic oozing out of the roof joints.
JohnYea but yea but yea but
In PC or was it Caravan Mag the reviewer said that the Bailey spec(in his opinion) would cot 3K more in other makes.
I was so impressed with the van (not the review)that I ordered a new Senator Oklahoma and have had to wait 6 months for delivery.
Think of the interest on or the interesting things you could do with that 3K.
It was in a magazine so it must be true!!
At the end of the day you will lose on a caravan and having a van that you like most is preferable to one that will possibly depreciate less.(in someone's opinion who has possibly a bigger profit margin or availability )
Just a thought
See if I care !!!
At full list price you are absolutly correct. If I was making a choice over 2006 models then it would have been much harder.
As it happens I paid less for a new Ace due to buying one of the last 2005 models. Discounted to 15K from nearly 18K. So the price was not so much the issue.
Also, if you intend keeping tha van for longer than 3 yrs then the selling value is less of a problem with the extra warrenty on the bailey still being active while no warrenty for the Ace.
For us, the Ace won, for friends the baily won. What is great about the caravan market at the moment is the choice available.
Steve
We have the Wyoming, 2005 version but not the series 5, and have looked at the series 5 and although we do like it, feel it is not a huge leap from our own model, and in one or two respects a backwards step. We will be looking at the Louisiana in a couple of years time, so hopefully these small backward steps will swap to large strides forward. Buying a caravan is very much down to personal taste, a magazine can only present the facts as they see them and make a judgment as they see fit, and they can't please everyone. If someone is going to buy a caravan strictly on what a magazine says then they need their head read, there is no substitution to getting out there and finding what suits yourself best. We were offered a Lunar twin axle when we purchased our Bailey, at a price that meant it came with nearly
when we bought our Pageant Provence there was a lot of mastic oozing out and it is the same with our Indiana. The dealer told us not to clean (or cut) it off because it was still soft. As the van is towed and the body moves slightly the soft mastic works it's way into all the crevices. He advised us to leave it for 18 months and then trim it.Hi Icemaker very pleased to read your comments and not offended !!!!
I have to agree about the mastic oozing out of the roof joints.
Is this sensible or just a "dealers tale"/
We have the Wyoming, 2005 version but not the series 5, and have looked at the series 5 and although we do like it, feel it is not a huge leap from our own model, and in one or two respects a backwards step. We will be looking at the Louisiana in a couple of years time, so hopefully these small backward steps will swap to large strides forward. Buying a caravan is very much down to personal taste, a magazine can only present the facts as they see them and make a judgment as they see fit, and they can't please everyone. If someone is going to buy a caravan strictly on what a magazine says then they need their head read, there is no substitution to getting out there and finding what suits yourself best. We were offered a Lunar twin axle when we purchased our Bailey, at a price that meant it came with nearly
Sounds like a dealers tale.when we bought our Pageant Provence there was a lot of mastic oozing out and it is the same with our Indiana. The dealer told us not to clean (or cut) it off because it was still soft. As the van is towed and the body moves slightly the soft mastic works it's way into all the crevices. He advised us to leave it for 18 months and then trim it.
Is this sensible or just a "dealers tale"/
"It was only a dealers tale" Isn't set to music somewhere or was that a weaver ??
Its just as likely to work out as in I would have thought.
All mass produced vans have their shortcomings and can be accused of being flimsy etc.
To get the quality and longevity that we require would mean getting into the Vanmaster class with greater weight needing a bigger car and the whole thing escalating.
There's not much to choose between most makes and it often comes down to the upholstery and colour scheme whether you "click" when you see a new van gleaming in the showroom.
They all have basically the same or similar fridge,fire water heater,taps,toilet.oven and roof lights.
To get the quality and longevity that we require would mean getting into the Vanmaster class with greater weight needing a bigger car and the whole thing escalating.
There's not much to choose between most makes and it often comes down to the upholstery and colour scheme whether you "click" when you see a new van gleaming in the showroom.
They all have basically the same or similar fridge,fire water heater,taps,toilet.oven and roof lights.
The mastic on the roof joint looks like a silicone that has cured and so will have ceased to ooze.Hi Icemaker very pleased to read your comments and not offended !!!!
I have to agree about the mastic oozing out of the roof joints.
Will have agood feel when we get the van.
Certainly my friend with the Bordeaux made adverse comments about it on his van as have several people at dealers.
John G. mass production of caravans means that everyone benefits in the long run. IMHO however to try and compare say Vanmaster and some Continental vans is not the best way of finding out which is best. the vanmaster does not make the Chassis, wheels, hitch, water and electric equipment, upholstery, alarm system etc.etc.etc. but what they do is have each van built to order and the woodwork and furniture are fitted by craftsmen.
There is a market for these build of vans, and they would admit that they could not produce for the mass market.
There is a market for these build of vans, and they would admit that they could not produce for the mass market.
If the magazine voted it tourer of the year, then its the magazines opinion. Go for the fixed bed Wendy, it doesn't have to be a Bailey, at least now you have checked it out, and if it's not for you, then it's not for you, simple. Which caravan would you have chosen for tourer of the year?We are at the minute debating on whether to up size to a fixed bed model 'van. We had a look at the new Bailey Senators at our local dealers a few weeks, and quite honestly cannot see what all the fuss is about. We thought they were pretty ordinary - Ok the price is good, but you get what you pay for!
As for tourer of the year - in who's opinion? It wouldn't encourage us to buy one!
Ummm - Difficult one that!If the magazine voted it tourer of the year, then its the magazines opinion. Go for the fixed bed Wendy, it doesn't have to be a Bailey, at least now you have checked it out, and if it's not for you, then it's not for you, simple. Which caravan would you have chosen for tourer of the year?
IMO It's really a matter of personal choice, when you look around at new caravans it's always a comparison with what ever you have got yourself at the time. At present we have an 02 Bessacarr - it's a big dilemma!!
Mark - As you say, try to be objective. I wonder just how objective magazine testers can be? What we really need is a Jeremy Clarkson of the caravan world who tells it like it is, warts and all. Having owned 3 British built vans and now a French (Caravalair) van the build quality differences are light years apart. Part of these reports should be the durability of the product & warranty, depreciation levels and Dealer aftercare service - all items which I'm sure help us make our buying decisions in addition to the glitzy upholstery and "extras".
I agree that mass production benefits us all but my point was that to keep the weight down must produce a degree of flimsiness which has a knock on effect of not needing a bigger towcar etc.John G. mass production of caravans means that everyone benefits in the long run. IMHO however to try and compare say Vanmaster and some Continental vans is not the best way of finding out which is best. the vanmaster does not make the Chassis, wheels, hitch, water and electric equipment, upholstery, alarm system etc.etc.etc. but what they do is have each van built to order and the woodwork and furniture are fitted by craftsmen.
There is a market for these build of vans, and they would admit that they could not produce for the mass market.
If the timber in the cupboards etc was to Vanmaster quality then it would come with a weight penalty unacceptable to many who must tow with a family car.
I don't recall mentioning continental vans but the more sturdy German vans also come with a weight penalty that rules them out for many.
Do you really think that Jeremy Clarkson tells anything like it really is? He seems to me to tell everything for maximum effect and to impress everyone with what a wit he is .Trouble is he only gets it half right --a halfwitMark - As you say, try to be objective. I wonder just how objective magazine testers can be? What we really need is a Jeremy Clarkson of the caravan world who tells it like it is, warts and all. Having owned 3 British built vans and now a French (Caravalair) van the build quality differences are light years apart. Part of these reports should be the durability of the product & warranty, depreciation levels and Dealer aftercare service - all items which I'm sure help us make our buying decisions in addition to the glitzy upholstery and "extras".
A bit like comparing a Mercedies with a Ford then. Your correct, if you have one of the ultimate vans, a Bailey is a step down, but then so are most others. We can't all swan around in Bessacarr or Carlights though.Ummm - Difficult one that!
IMO It's really a matter of personal choice, when you look around at new caravans it's always a comparison with what ever you have got yourself at the time. At present we have an 02 Bessacarr - it's a big dilemma!!
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