Tow bar fun and games!

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Mar 27, 2011
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Hi Prof I’m still wondering what the polythene bag is for? Is it what you bring some sandwiches along in because you’ll need some sustenance due to the long drawn out job of measuring the nose weight?
 
Jun 15, 2018
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ProfJohnL said:
LG57-UPS. said:
The nose weight,is as low as i can get it.I only have the gas bottles and spare wheel in there.All heavy stuff i have inside across the caravan axle.Being a sports saloon,the car sits low naturally.If i put higher stiffer springs on her she might sit funny,and not handle to good.

I will look into the spring route though.May be the springs off the cars estate version might do the trick.I think you may have the right solution,i just dont want to spoil the cars handling when not towing.

Have you actually measured your nose load?

I have,i used a guage i bought from Go outdoors.Next time i visit the storage yard i will try the method you describe and see what that makes it.

You need a:-
Flat (Horizontal) stretch of road,
set of bathroom scales,
A polythene bag to put over the hitch
Tape measure
the caravan step and
some magazines.
car and caravan loaded just as if your going on Holiday ( people and luggage)
Pull up straight on the flat road brakes off. ( the car/caravan won't roll away if its flat.
Measure the height of the hitch
UN hitch the caravan
Put the scale on the step and use the magazines under the scales so the top will support the hitch at the measured height.
make sure tall teh steadies and jokey wheel are off the ground
take the reading on the scales = nose load.

Note proprietary brands of nose load gauges do not allow the height of the hitch to be adjusted which is crucial to get your actual nose load , and in general will be less accurate that your bathroom scales.

If your nose load reading is too high, then you can remove the spare wheel from the front locker or may be add some weight behind the axle.
 
Jun 15, 2018
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I did measure it with a guage from Go outdoors.But on my next visit to the storage yard.I will compare readings using your method.I measured my jockey wheel diameter at 230mm.Would a smaller wheel give me the clearence i need?
ProfJohnL said:
LG57-UPS. said:
The nose weight,is as low as i can get it.I only have the gas bottles and spare wheel in there.All heavy stuff i have inside across the caravan axle.Being a sports saloon,the car sits low naturally.If i put higher stiffer springs on her she might sit funny,and not handle to good.

I will look into the spring route though.May be the springs off the cars estate version might do the trick.I think you may have the right solution,i just dont want to spoil the cars handling when not towing.

Have you actually measured your nose load?

You need a:-
Flat (Horizontal) stretch of road,
set of bathroom scales,
A polythene bag to put over the hitch
Tape measure
the caravan step and
some magazines.
car and caravan loaded just as if your going on Holiday ( people and luggage)
Pull up straight on the flat road brakes off. ( the car/caravan won't roll away if its flat.
Measure the height of the hitch
UN hitch the caravan
Put the scale on the step and use the magazines under the scales so the top will support the hitch at the measured height.
make sure tall teh steadies and jokey wheel are off the ground
take the reading on the scales = nose load.

Note proprietary brands of nose load gauges do not allow the height of the hitch to be adjusted which is crucial to get your actual nose load , and in general will be less accurate that your bathroom scales.

If your nose load reading is too high, then you can remove the spare wheel from the front locker or may be add some weight behind the axle.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Have we missed the point?
The OP says his vehicle on the level , unhitched gives a tow ball height of 345 which is outside the EU figures.
Nose load cannot be anything to do with his question. Clearly either the tow bar assembly is faulty or his suspension needs some attention.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Dustydog said:
Have we missed the point?
The OP says his vehicle on the level , unhitched gives a tow ball height of 345 which is outside the EU figures.
Nose load cannot be anything to do with his question. Clearly either the tow bar assembly is faulty or his suspension needs some attention.

No Dusty, you haven't missed the point,

LG tells us his unloaded tow ball is that low, then as you say its outside of the Eu regulations. and the reason why does need to discovered. But LG also states he was having trouble getting his nose load low enough, which suggest he may still overloaded, so he needs to know how to measure nose load, and what he can do to reduce excess nose load bearing in mind he tells us the spare wheel is presently in the gas locker.
 
Jun 15, 2018
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My front locker just contains 1x 3.9 kg Propane.1x 6kg propane and the spare wheel.My JW diameter is 230mm.Ive seen some after market replacement wheels that are 165mm.Would that give me a bit more clearence? The tow bar was on the car when i bought it,but i believe it to be fitted correctly.The car has passed its mot recently,and no defects were found,regarding the suspension.
ProfJohnL said:
Dustydog said:
Have we missed the point?
The OP says his vehicle on the level , unhitched gives a tow ball height of 345 which is outside the EU figures.
Nose load cannot be anything to do with his question. Clearly either the tow bar assembly is faulty or his suspension needs some attention.

No Dusty, you haven't missed the point,

LG tells us his unloaded tow ball is that low, then as you say its outside of the Eu regulations. and the reason why does need to discovered. But LG also states he was having trouble getting his nose load low enough, which suggest he may still overloaded, so he needs to know how to measure nose load, and what he can do to reduce excess nose load bearing in mind he tells us the spare wheel is presently in the gas locker.
 
Feb 23, 2018
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I don't think it has been mentioned, but the Jockey Wheel forks may not have been in the notch to prevent the wheel from moving while raised - may have caused it to sit too low. https://unitrailer.co.uk/eng_pl_Jockey-wheel-with-a-scale-AL-KO-up-to-300-kg-389_2.jpg
 
Jun 15, 2018
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I will have to check that out.Being a newbie i may have done what you have suggested.Cheers for that,i will have to check that.
CustardAvenger said:
I don't think it has been mentioned, but the Jockey Wheel forks may not have been in the notch to prevent the wheel from moving while raised - may have caused it to sit too low. https://unitrailer.co.uk/eng_pl_Jockey-wheel-with-a-scale-AL-KO-up-to-300-kg-389_2.jpg
 
Mar 14, 2005
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LG57-UPS. said:
My front locker just contains 1x 3.9 kg Propane.1x 6kg propane and the spare wheel.My JW diameter is 230mm.Ive seen some after market replacement wheels that are 165mm.Would that give me a bit more clearence? The tow bar was on the car when i bought it,but i believe it to be fitted correctly.The car has passed its mot recently,and no defects were found,regarding the suspension.

Hello LG,
Two gas bottles and a spare wheel in the front locker is certainly quite a lot of weight, so if you are struggling to reduce your nose load do consider moving the spare wheel to inside the caravan whilst travelling. DOnt forget the caravan is just like a see saw, and if you remove 10kg wheel from teh front locker the nose load goes down by nearly 10kg, and if you relocate it behind the axle by the same distance it was in front, you will reduce your nose load by a further equal amount, A spare tyre in a dustbin bag can sit on the floor of the or in a seat locker provided its secured to stop it buncing around when traveling.

Please note :- Gas bottles must only be carried in properly designed locations provided they are securely held upright in a ventilated space.
 
Jun 15, 2018
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I didnt realise that just those 3 things could be considered overly heavy.The gas bottles are fitted in the proper locations designated by the manufacturer along with the spare wheel too_On my next trip i will put the spare wheel in a bag across the axle .The previous owner used to run,with a full size awning,a bag of poles gas bottles and the spare.Plus a ton of other gear.So i presumed i was running light..lol
ProfJohnL said:
LG57-UPS. said:
My front locker just contains 1x 3.9 kg Propane.1x 6kg propane and the spare wheel.My JW diameter is 230mm.Ive seen some after market replacement wheels that are 165mm.Would that give me a bit more clearence? The tow bar was on the car when i bought it,but i believe it to be fitted correctly.The car has passed its mot recently,and no defects were found,regarding the suspension.

Hello LG,
Two gas bottles and a spare wheel in the front locker is certainly quite a lot of weight, so if you are struggling to reduce your nose load do consider moving the spare wheel to inside the caravan whilst travelling. DOnt forget the caravan is just like a see saw, and if you remove 10kg wheel from teh front locker the nose load goes down by nearly 10kg, and if you relocate it behind the axle by the same distance it was in front, you will reduce your nose load by a further equal amount, A spare tyre in a dustbin bag can sit on the floor of the or in a seat locker provided its secured to stop it buncing around when traveling.

Please note :- Gas bottles must only be carried in properly designed locations provided they are securely held upright in a ventilated space.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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LG, it's surprising, but an empty 3.9 kg calor propane bottle can weigh anything from 4.1 kg upto 8.6 Kg. And the 6 KG can weigh 7.3 to 10.9 kg empty.
Unless I really have too, I only carry a single gas bottle.
I try and get my nose weight to5 kgs below the max for my cars tow bar . Simple things, such as if your water heater is near the front of the caravan, drain it down, that could save maybe 5kgs on nose weight and 10 kgs on your max MPTLM. Also keeping your toilet fluid low, when travelling saves another few Kgs,
It takes years of messing about to get your caravan, as light as possible but with a good nose weight. .
Good luck you will get there.
Hutch.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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Another quick thought, try jacking up your tow bar under the tow ball, it may have dropped. I have had that before, maybe slacken the towbar to the car chassis, jack up then retighten the tow bar .
I have used the MADDs spring assister with positive results, but you would have to tell you car insurance company.
Hutch.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Not sure what model your caravan is but my Sprite is incredibly nose heavy with just one Calorlite and the spare wheel in the locker. I cannot put gear in the front underbed lockers for travelling so a lot goes into the car or aft of the axle to get noseweight to 75kg against the cars 80kg limit. As said above it takes quite a bit of trial and error to sort these things out. Thanks to Sprite most of the heavy stuff like fridge, cooker, heater,battery, power units are all forward of the axle. And me removing rear bunks has saved kilos on payload to the detriment of noseweight. But after various adjustments it tows beautifully.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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EH52ARH said:
Another quick thought, try jacking up your tow bar under the tow ball, it may have dropped. I have had that before, maybe slacken the towbar to the car chassis, jack up then retighten the tow bar .
I have used the MADDs spring assister with positive results, but you would have to tell you car insurance company.
Hutch.

I’ve used MAD auxiliary springs on a Saab 9000 CSE Turbo which rocked back and forth like a barge. They have also been fitted to my current car as the Witter towbar grounded as I came off of the drive and was too close to comfort on our local speed calming thingies. The Skoda just as well solo as with its standard suspension albeit just a little bit firmer unloaded. And its rear ride height is a bit higher. But with a load and noseweight there’s no further grounding of the towbar. I could have put on Skodas rough country springs but these would have had to come from Russia or India and really do raise the car up but would not have required and software or sensor changes. I informed my insurer and premium increased a smidgen.
 
Jun 15, 2018
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I have not suffered any handling problems with my 2000 Abbey Expression 470.I even drove it the 40 miles from its place of purchase,with all the clobber the previous owner let go with it,awnings etc. On our first trip out with a lightened load,she handled fine.Obviously i will need to work out a solution to the JW .I will get there in the end..lol
otherclive said:
Not sure what model your caravan is but my Sprite is incredibly nose heavy with just one Calorlite and the spare wheel in the locker. I cannot put gear in the front underbed lockers for travelling so a lot goes into the car or aft of the axle to get noseweight to 75kg against the cars 80kg limit. As said above it takes quite a bit of trial and error to sort these things out. Thanks to Sprite most of the heavy stuff like fridge, cooker, heater,battery, power units are all forward of the axle. And me removing rear bunks has saved kilos on payload to the detriment of noseweight. But after various adjustments it tows beautifully.
 

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