I am about to buy a new caravan, my tow car is the Zxara Picaso the recomended max tow weight is 1300Kg the caravan I like is the Adria 5 berth which as an unlad of 1200 fully lad of 1401, would it be ok to tow but load the van to 1300? Do people do this? Any help would be appriciated. Also I have a static at Tarcre beach 2002 model which I would like to part exchange for the tourer anyone done this and if so can you give advice, please.
Towing limit
- Thread starter jim_374371505
- Start date
using the 85% rule then your max would be 1105kgs. your choice of caravan at 1200 only gives you 100kgs to play with to tow at 100%. you may have difficulty in loading anything of use into the van. i would suggest looking at either a lighter van or upgrading your van
Iain
85% is merely a guideline not a rule nor law.You will see on another thread we conclude it will be ok to tow 1800kgs with a Mondeo. Ok , not all of us will do so but as Lutz points out there is nothing to stop you.
Until I changed my car 3 years ago I was towing around 94%. I had to be extra careful watching out for anything large passing me.
If I was Jim, I'd change my car or lower my caraavn weight.
Cheers
Alan
85% is merely a guideline not a rule nor law.You will see on another thread we conclude it will be ok to tow 1800kgs with a Mondeo. Ok , not all of us will do so but as Lutz points out there is nothing to stop you.
Until I changed my car 3 years ago I was towing around 94%. I had to be extra careful watching out for anything large passing me.
If I was Jim, I'd change my car or lower my caraavn weight.
Cheers
Alan
Iain, you've got things confused. The 85% recommendation is calculated as 85% of the kerbweight, not of the max. towload. Jim has not mentioned the kerbweight in his post.
Theoretically it would be possible not to load the caravan up to its max. fully laden weight in order to stay legal, but you will be surprised how quickly you will arrive at lower limit once you start putting stuff on board. It's likely that you will have to exercise a considerable amount of self-discipline.
By the way, the maximum towload is not the total weight of the van, but its axle load. If the towload limit is 1300kg then the caravan may weigh 1300 + noseweight.
Theoretically it would be possible not to load the caravan up to its max. fully laden weight in order to stay legal, but you will be surprised how quickly you will arrive at lower limit once you start putting stuff on board. It's likely that you will have to exercise a considerable amount of self-discipline.
By the way, the maximum towload is not the total weight of the van, but its axle load. If the towload limit is 1300kg then the caravan may weigh 1300 + noseweight.
Sorry about rocking the boat here (newbie and all that), but I am mistified by all the quoting of 85% rule (not a rule at all).
I will stand up and say I tow a van that is a 90% match for my current modern small family car equiped with ESP and firm suspension. My caravan also has ATC, AKS and Tyron bands.
From my travels around the country it appears that people will use an older 4x4 often in excess of 15 years old as a tow car.
While these may be a good match theoretically, many reports show that these vehicles (often without even ABS) are not that stable solo, so how can they be a more stable tow car??
I will stand up and say I tow a van that is a 90% match for my current modern small family car equiped with ESP and firm suspension. My caravan also has ATC, AKS and Tyron bands.
From my travels around the country it appears that people will use an older 4x4 often in excess of 15 years old as a tow car.
While these may be a good match theoretically, many reports show that these vehicles (often without even ABS) are not that stable solo, so how can they be a more stable tow car??
Hi Civical,
I'm not sure what mystifies you about the 85%?
This is slightly off topic for this thread, but you are happy with your outfit at 90%, but is this confidence because you have all the latest technology? What happens if any of it fails, do you loose control? I hope not. All the devices you mention are add-ons that hopefully expand the safety envelope rather than creating it.
Provided a vehicle has been serviced correctly, and any worn parts repaired etc, its age should not significantly change its towing ability.
What perhaps has changed is our perception of what a good or bad tow is. But regardless of age or technology, it is still the driver's responsibility to ensure that vehicle is used within its limits of ability.
As issues with stability are often (but not always) related to speed, then in general towing automatically reduces speed so it should keep the vehicle further within its safe operating envelope.
It is the nature of technological development that systems will improved, and in time the vehicle you drive now may be considered not as good as the best in some aspects of its handling in the future.
That's life.
I'm not sure what mystifies you about the 85%?
This is slightly off topic for this thread, but you are happy with your outfit at 90%, but is this confidence because you have all the latest technology? What happens if any of it fails, do you loose control? I hope not. All the devices you mention are add-ons that hopefully expand the safety envelope rather than creating it.
Provided a vehicle has been serviced correctly, and any worn parts repaired etc, its age should not significantly change its towing ability.
What perhaps has changed is our perception of what a good or bad tow is. But regardless of age or technology, it is still the driver's responsibility to ensure that vehicle is used within its limits of ability.
As issues with stability are often (but not always) related to speed, then in general towing automatically reduces speed so it should keep the vehicle further within its safe operating envelope.
It is the nature of technological development that systems will improved, and in time the vehicle you drive now may be considered not as good as the best in some aspects of its handling in the future.
That's life.
The advancement of technology is my point exactly.
What I am stating is that to stop caravanning becoming an elitist hobby in these days of higher fuel prices, that with newer vehicles with increased inherrent stability that recommendations such as the 85% load recommendations could be revisited and perhaps revised.
Hi,
Yes a number of us have been saying basically that for some time. but from a slightly different perspective. No one has been able to bring any technical details of how the 85% figure was derived. I belive it was a figure agreed by a committee.
I am at pains to point out that the essence of what it is trying to do is sound, It is always better to keep the vehicle as heavy as is reasonably possible, and the trailer as light as possible, but suggesting an actual figure such as 85% is too black and white. It infers that anything below 85% is safe, when the actual safety is as Dependant on other factors as well as relative weights.
Officially it has only ever been a guideline, but it has been used and misquoted too often and in some peopels eyes it has risen above it office.
Ultimately the car manufacturers as part of their type approval testing have factual evidence of how their cars will cope with trailers, so we should be paying greater attention to what they say rather than unsubstantiated and arbitrary figures from none regulated sources.
Hi Jim,
I was in a similar position last year with a caravan I liked, being rated slightly heavier than my car.
I 'phoned the Caravan Club and was informed that if the Police stopped me they would take the weight of the caravan as stated on the plate.....unless I had a weighbridge ticket, dated that day, confirming the caravans weight as being within legal limits.
Additionally, should I have an accident the insurance company would also take the plated weight as being correct and would probably not pay out any claim.
I do not fully know the legal position but on the basis of the above I bought a bigger car.
Just a thought!
I was in a similar position last year with a caravan I liked, being rated slightly heavier than my car.
I 'phoned the Caravan Club and was informed that if the Police stopped me they would take the weight of the caravan as stated on the plate.....unless I had a weighbridge ticket, dated that day, confirming the caravans weight as being within legal limits.
Additionally, should I have an accident the insurance company would also take the plated weight as being correct and would probably not pay out any claim.
I do not fully know the legal position but on the basis of the above I bought a bigger car.
Just a thought!
Hi Lutz
In my separate thread 'vehicle weights' I queried whether the noseweight should be added to the Gross Vehicle Weight as the load is directly on the car, checking my vehicle details it does state that any trailer hitch weight should indeed be included as part of the GVW calculation, so how many times do we add the noseweight to our Gross Train Weight if it is included in all of the following calculations:
1. Gross Vehicle Weight
2. Max Tech Permisable Load
Your post including it into the towing limit suggests to me that the nose weight is included in the MTPL, surely the noseweight can not be being carried by both vehicles?
Says Barking desparately seeking clarification
In my separate thread 'vehicle weights' I queried whether the noseweight should be added to the Gross Vehicle Weight as the load is directly on the car, checking my vehicle details it does state that any trailer hitch weight should indeed be included as part of the GVW calculation, so how many times do we add the noseweight to our Gross Train Weight if it is included in all of the following calculations:
1. Gross Vehicle Weight
2. Max Tech Permisable Load
Your post including it into the towing limit suggests to me that the nose weight is included in the MTPL, surely the noseweight can not be being carried by both vehicles?
Says Barking desparately seeking clarification
Noseweight is included in the MTPLM of the caravan, but it is not included in the maximum permissible load that the car may tow. Noseweight can only be included once and that is in the GVW of the towcar.
Do remember that if the 'van is heavier than the towing vehicle you are limited to 50mph at all times in the UK.
Are you sure Woody? I've never heard of this and there's no reference to it in the Highway Code or Roadcraft.
Woody, I have never heard of that restriction in the UK, I have heard (but not confirmed) that you cannot do more than 80 kph (50 mph) in Germany if your trailer is heavier than your car.
If that is the case, why can articulated lorries in the UK do 60 on motorways. The trailer is definitely heavier than the tractor unit.
If that is the case, why can articulated lorries in the UK do 60 on motorways. The trailer is definitely heavier than the tractor unit.
The restriction in Germany applies to the ratio of MTPLM of the trailer vs. kerbweight of the car, not its actual weight or GVW. This must not exceed 100% if you wish to obtain approval for 100km/h instead of the regular 80km/h speed limit.
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