Towing mirrors ????????

[602]

Hi,

So how many of you (sorry - us) are unable to see a car DIRECTLY behind you, because your van does not have windows each end? I would not buy a caravan that did not allow "thru" visibility

On the other hand, do we need to know what is behind us? (Ducks to avoid flack) If I have my van hooked up, I am unlikely to brake heavily, unless I'm in a situation where mirrors are irrelevent. I ain't going to change lanes unless my "inadequate" wing mirrors show me it is safe to do so. And I am very aware of my limitations.

But my original query was about the desription "TOWING MIRRORS".

Rephrase that to MIRRORS THAT SHOW REARMOST CORNER OF TRAILER, and I know where I stand. ADEQUATE VIEW TO REAR is open to interpretation by the police or His Worship.

602

 

[Lutz]

As Damian says, "adequate view to rear" is not open to interpretation. It is very closely defined. Damian appropriately wrote:

"A key question is exactly what constitutes an 'adequate' view. In all of the legislation regarding mirrors, the requirements are defined in an extremely complicated manner. Rather than giving a confusing (if technically) exact definition, a good approximation would be to say that for a typical car-caravan combination, you need to be able to see a zone at least 4-5m wider than the caravan at a distance of about 10-20m behind the caravan.

 

[AlexC]

Yes i have enjoyed my rant!!!!!!

But i still cannot understand Why oh Why people spend sooooo much on there caravans and (hopefully insurance) but don't bother to spend so little on at least one (towing) extended mirror, sorry if i have offended some people but thats how i feel.

Yes i hope people who don't have the extended mirrors do get pulled over by the police and i go past at the time ( I might just sound my horn and laugh ).

Dave

LOL ! Cheers Dave, I am already laughing.

 

[TimM]

In response to Seth's comments and further to my third post from the top. I don't consider myself a busybody or anything like that and I really don't mind what people do as long as it doesn't effect other people. The comment "What the heck has it got to do with anybody how many mirrors you fit to your car" misses the point. It has everything to do with you if you are the inoccent that gets swiped off the motorway because you have not been seen. The person that changed lanes on the M4 so very nearly took me with them. That was a narrow Rover 400 with a modern 2.3m wide caravan so his view was very poor indeed. My reactions are fairly quick and there was nothing in the outside lane so I could swerve in to that. It could have been very different. I really don't mind if people want to endanger their own safety. I do take issue when they also affect someone else. People not fitting mirrors often seem to be just trying to make a point but its quite selfish and also somewhat pointless when there are perfectly good mirrors that do the job well available for not much cost.

My own outfit is a Discovery towing a 2006 Abbey and even with a 4X4 the towing mirrors (Grand Aeros) make a huge difference. Also easier to reverse with them on. The nearside is probably used less than the offside here but in France its the other way round. As it takes less than a minute to fit each mirror I always fit both.

 

[602]

People not fitting mirrors often seem to be just trying to make a point but its quite selfish

Hi,

Well, thats put me in my place.

Personally, I consider "selfish" comes into the equation when somebody does something that adversley affects somebody else .... like moving across a lane, so that they are only a couple of metres in front of my car, or even forcing me to brake so that I don't hit them. Cars are the worst culprits in the former, and HGVs are the worst in the latter. I presume they only do this because their mirros tell them it is safe to do so. But I have never had it done to me by someone pulling a caravan or trailer, and can't remember being done by a campervan.

Have I ever done this? Possibly, but not within my memory span (my MQ is 140), and would regard myself as a "failure" if I did it now. I only pull out when I KNOW it is safe to do so. Perhaps other people don't pull out when they know it is dangerous to do so.

Caravans are too wide!

602

 

[TimM]

If on a dual carriage way or motorway and the next lane of traffic is travelling 15 miles per hour plus faster than you and you have an inadequate view of the road behind you then to be safe you can never pull in to the next lane for fear of hitting someone who is going faster than you. At the time of my near accident I was doing 70 in the middle lane and the caravan probably 50. It was uphill. He had no chance of seeing me at all with that outfit without mirrors. Simple geometry.

Taking 602'view I guess he should never have been on a motorway with that outfit in the first place or be confined to the inside lane but even then what about merging with other traffic and where the road goes to two lanes and you have to move over to the middle?

Regarding "Personally, I consider "selfish" comes into the equation when somebody does something that adversley affects somebody else". That is exactly my point.

 

[seth1]

Yes granted Tim,must have been un-nerving for you,but perhaps no need for the mallace.Was his or her indicator not functioning?did you not see it?did you not antisepate what was about to happen?

Another problem and especially for people who dont look over their shoulder when overtaking is the blind spot between the mirror and rear of the car and no amount of mirrors will reduce this effect.

 

[TimM]

Absolutely no mallice intended just debate. I could not anticipate what was going to happen at my incident and at that closing speed and distance there was nothing I could do about it apart from move lanes myself. Luckily there was nothing on my offside and more by luck than judgement my car stayed in control inspite of the swerve. From this thread I can see why it had to made law for people to wear seatbelts. This is the same. Its safer with mirrors and they are not expensive so why not fit them?

 

[David_374413417]

Absolutely no mallice intended just debate. I could not anticipate what was going to happen at my incident and at that closing speed and distance there was nothing I could do about it apart from move lanes myself. Luckily there was nothing on my offside and more by luck than judgement my car stayed in control inspite of the swerve. From this thread I can see why it had to made law for people to wear seatbelts. This is the same. Its safer with mirrors and they are not expensive so why not fit them?

do we have to put drivers who tow a caravan

(wider than there car)

and don't use towing (extended) mirrors in the same catagary as

Drivers not having there seatbelt on,

Drivers useing there mobile phones,

these things minght be petty to some but they are the law.

They do save lives.

 

[602]

and they are not expensive so why not fit them?

Hi,

That is exactly what I am in the process of doing .... only they won't be TOWING MIRRORS, they will be mirrors that can be set for either driving with or without a trailer. But because they are not specifically TOWING MIRRORS, will I be breaking the law?

If I had a modern car for towing, I would be looking for a way to design a long-armed mirror that can be fitted permanently, or semi-permanently,to my roof bars. Driving solo it would be folded back along and above the roof, for minimum drag. When towing, it would be folded out and slightly down. OK, there would be design constraints, such as letting the front doors open, but not insurmountable. It would also, probably, be expensive.

Vehicles pulling out across your bows, forcing you to brake? Par for the course, any day, on the M4 ..... and I find the North South motorways even more frightening.

602

 

[phillip_374558452]

reason hgvs dont use towing mirrors is the towing vehicle is as wide as the trailer

 

[chris_374398963]

I hope this clears it up

Towing mirrors are a legal requirement if your caravan is wider than your car, as the law states that when towing a caravan you must have adequate view of the rear of the car and along both sides of your caravan.

That is legal advice.

 

[RayS]

Wonder how a rear view cmera fits into all this ?

Just supposing that a high mounted reversing camera was (accidentally, of course, connected to some power source not via the reverse lights such that it was powered. Then you would be able to see very well behind you. A small display unit, say sat-nav size could be clipped over the car interior mirror (which is useless while towing) and the image would be in the normal place so the eyes would flick to it easlily instead of trying to peer across the front seat passenger through a possibly steamy side window to a vibrating mirror.

I have just bought a Maplin reversing set - wireless - which seems to work pretty well through my caravan - the transmitter is about 2/3 of the distance back from the hitch with the camera on the numberplate. Having no revese lights on the caravan, I shall have to rely on uplugging the power to the monitor when not reversing.....

 

[Sproket]

Ray (s)

Something like this set up ? some people have a two camera set up...

 

[Lutz]

Rear view cameras may be a good thing but the law takes a long time to catch up with cutting edge technology and makes no provisions for them (see Damian's very comprehensive reply above). Mirrors only are mentioned, not any other form of rear view device. Hence, a rear view camera does not relieve you of fitting towing mirrors.

 

[mark10]

Hi Mark,

I don't have a slapdash attitude to road safety.

Alex.

Hi Alex

I,ll take that back then Alex but if you still think its just fine with only one mirror just because nothings happened so far then you need to revise your attitude just a wee bit, it's good to arm yourself with every advantage against all those other drivers who aren't at all considerate to us caravaners, not to mention the drivers who shoulden't even be behind the wheel of a car in the first place, cheers.

 

[wends64]

If your caravan is wider than the towing vehicle.

The law specifies you must be able to clearly see down both sides

of the caravan and 4 metres either side, at a distance of 20 metres behind the caravan. Therefore, only the widest of cars towing the narrowest of caravans would be legal without towing mirrors.

Why would anyone want to not put extended mirrors on their vehicles when towing? how much have you spent on your caravan and suitable towing vehicle? And you dont want to spend just a bit more making it safe to drive. Must be an ego thing then!

I always use mirrors - the suction ones which are great and so quick and easy to put on and take off. My kids usually put them on for me whilst i am checking all the electrics are working.

Maybe its because I am a woman and I dont have to follow the male ego rule of "I'm a brilliant driver and don't need any safety devices" !

 

[602]

Hi,

My complaint is about solo cars that DO have mirrors. Very accurate mirrors ..... so accurate that they can tell that when they change lanes, there will be the best part of 10ft between their rear bumper and my front bumper.

I won't complain about the HGVs that change lanes just as my front bumper draws level with their rear WHEEL. There is obviously a simple explanation for this, its just that I haven't worked out what it is. Can anyone enlighten me?

If a car towing a trailer, changes lanes and carves you up, the problem is not lack of mirrors, its dangerous driving. If he can't see something is passing, or about to pass, he shouldn't change lanes.

602