Van 5 weeks old and rear panel Cracked!!!!

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Feb 15, 2006
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Hello Missedagain1,

I can appreciate that finding a problem like this in your new caravan must be distressing especially after your previous experience, and I can understand your response is to panic.

In no way am I trying to be-little the issue, but it may not be as serious as you first think, so take a few steady breaths and consider your options carefully - and don't do anything rash that may jeopardise your position or diminish your rights.

You need to get an independent professional report on the damage. Depending on the outcome, the best course of action will be come clearer.

Without the full details of the damage and what might subsequently ensue because of the damage, all we can do is speculate, but I can suggest some of the options you may have.

First of all under UK Consumer Law, (the Sale of Goods Act or SoGA) you have statutory rights that automatically come into play when you buy something new. Those rights are between you and your seller and exist even if a written contract is not produced.

In essence you have the right to expect the goods to be free from design, manufacturing and workmanship faults, to be of merchantable quality, and fit for the stated purpose "at the time of sale". No retail seller can reduce or over-ride your statutory rights.

The product should survive its normal life expectancy. SoGA supports that view up to a practical maximum of 6 years, though depending on the product shorter time spans may be established.

If a product fails in any of the above respects, it is your right to expect the seller to remedy the situation. Eg. Repair, replace or refund to a condition that would have existed if the fault had not occurred. - So the older a product is, the sellers liability reduces.

For these reasons SoGA is a powerful piece of legislation. It is there to ensure that consumers are not taken for ride, but it is also there to protect the seller from unscrupulous customers, so everyone has to be fair and take a responsible attitude to its use.

SoGA relies on the civil law test of the "balance of probabilities". So it will not always give a black and white outcome, However for products that have a life expectancy of over 6 months, the case law suggests that the seller has to prove the fault DID NOT exist at the point of sale, and for product over 6 months the customer has to prove that it was probably faulty at the time of sale.

The case for a full refund or new replacement is not always as clear cut as it may seem. The product must be in as new condition, without wear or tear. This is why calls to reject a purchase usually have to be made very promptly after purchase in some cases a matter of hours. If you exceed what is considered to be a reasonable reject time window for the product then the application for refund or new replacement diminishes. There are exceptions which are decided on case by case basis - one such is if the fault is uneconomic to repair (Most small appliances are uneconomic to repair thus replacement or refund is the usual outcome), another is where it can be shown that symptoms of the fault would only become apparent some extended time into the life of the product.

There are other considerations also, for example if a brand new car was drive out of the dealership, and found that a headlamp bulb was not working. The car is technically not road worthy, and it has fault at point of sale. But it would not be reasonable to expect a brand new replacement car or a full refund when it is five minute job to replace the bulb.

For an item as expensive as a caravan or a car, where you are hoping for a full refund, or replacement or complex repairs then you should seek professional legal advice.

SoGA only applies between you and the seller of the product. The seller is the person or company that takes your money - so it is unlikely to be the manufacture as caravans are usually sold through dealers Or it might be a finance house if you have used finance or HP. In some cases there is a joint responsibility between the dealer and Finance house - your legal advisor should be able to tell you your position.

Some ground rules.

If it is your intention to seek a refund or new replacement you must write to the seller(s) telling them you "reject the caravan", and give the reasons. Ask them to arrange the refund or replacement within a reasonable time period (e.g.20 working days). And await their response.

You must give them a reasonable time to respond, and you must also allow their representative time and access to the caravan in order to make any notes or inspection they ask for.

Keep records of communications, and always ask for any verbal communications to be followed up with a written one. Do not accept any offer made verbally always have it in writing.

It may seem unnecessary to say this, but be honest about the problem and circumstances - if it goes to court, any unreasonable behaviour or claims will count against any final judgment.

In such cases, often the seller will return the product to the manufacture for assessment. To that extend the manufacturer is acting as a sub contractor to the seller, not the sellers master. The manufacture may refuse to accept liability for the fault, and the seller may try to adopt the same stance quoting the manufactures position. Do not be bullied by this tactic. Your contract is with the seller - not the manufacture. There are detailed differences between the contract that you have with the seller, and the sellers contract with the manufacturer. If you are advised you have a strong case, you may still claim against the seller irrespective of the opinion of the manufacture - that is a problem for the seller sort out not you.

The case for a repair rather than replacement.

Particularly for high value items like cars and caravans, the seller is likely to offer a repair. This is not always the bad news you might think. For some problems a repair is a perfectly sound solution. The rider has to be that the completed repair should be undetectable, and not devalue the product in any way. Nor should it compromise the design, safety, usability, reliability and appearance of the product.

If you opt for a repair, make it clear to the seller that you still retain the right to reject the repaired product if it does not come up to scratch.

With such a young caravan, there should be no problem with the seller accepting liability for the fault, but you may have a fight if you want to go for full refund or new replacement which is why I strongly suggest you get professional legal advicers.
Hiya, ive been in your position with 2 brand new vans and i rejected them. alan dusty dog will help you like he helped me but i will give you a bit of quick advise. google sales of goods act quicks facts.

you van has an INHERANT fault which is a fault at the time of sale but not noticed until you use it. i would write to the dealer rejecting the caravan under the reasons of the sales of goods act 1976? as amended and tell them you want a replacement with no delivery charge. i also sent a copy to the manu both sent special delivery. i gave them 14 days to reply.

i did get a replacement twice and also rejected the second one, and rejected the awning aswell because that had faults. i got my money back for the van, awning, motor mover and the delivery charge. dont take no for an answer a repair is a no no you paid for this you want a replacememnt or your money back. i told them i wanted my money back because 2 replacements i had lost faith and i wasnt caravaning anymore but i just wanted my money back and to go to another dealer.

i got a wyoming, isabella capri lux and a motor mover for the price of the single axel sterling, bradcot awning and single axel motor mover. i got a better deal from a different dealer.

alan helped me alot and i did alot myself im like a dog with a bone so dont let them get away with it. it should have been found when they did a pdq or whatever its called.

please keep us posted. if you need anymore help just shout but im sure alan will have it in hand.

good luck

jo

jo-anne
 
Feb 15, 2006
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Hello Missedagain1,

I can appreciate that finding a problem like this in your new caravan must be distressing especially after your previous experience, and I can understand your response is to panic.

In no way am I trying to be-little the issue, but it may not be as serious as you first think, so take a few steady breaths and consider your options carefully - and don't do anything rash that may jeopardise your position or diminish your rights.

You need to get an independent professional report on the damage. Depending on the outcome, the best course of action will be come clearer.

Without the full details of the damage and what might subsequently ensue because of the damage, all we can do is speculate, but I can suggest some of the options you may have.

First of all under UK Consumer Law, (the Sale of Goods Act or SoGA) you have statutory rights that automatically come into play when you buy something new. Those rights are between you and your seller and exist even if a written contract is not produced.

In essence you have the right to expect the goods to be free from design, manufacturing and workmanship faults, to be of merchantable quality, and fit for the stated purpose "at the time of sale". No retail seller can reduce or over-ride your statutory rights.

The product should survive its normal life expectancy. SoGA supports that view up to a practical maximum of 6 years, though depending on the product shorter time spans may be established.

If a product fails in any of the above respects, it is your right to expect the seller to remedy the situation. Eg. Repair, replace or refund to a condition that would have existed if the fault had not occurred. - So the older a product is, the sellers liability reduces.

For these reasons SoGA is a powerful piece of legislation. It is there to ensure that consumers are not taken for ride, but it is also there to protect the seller from unscrupulous customers, so everyone has to be fair and take a responsible attitude to its use.

SoGA relies on the civil law test of the "balance of probabilities". So it will not always give a black and white outcome, However for products that have a life expectancy of over 6 months, the case law suggests that the seller has to prove the fault DID NOT exist at the point of sale, and for product over 6 months the customer has to prove that it was probably faulty at the time of sale.

The case for a full refund or new replacement is not always as clear cut as it may seem. The product must be in as new condition, without wear or tear. This is why calls to reject a purchase usually have to be made very promptly after purchase in some cases a matter of hours. If you exceed what is considered to be a reasonable reject time window for the product then the application for refund or new replacement diminishes. There are exceptions which are decided on case by case basis - one such is if the fault is uneconomic to repair (Most small appliances are uneconomic to repair thus replacement or refund is the usual outcome), another is where it can be shown that symptoms of the fault would only become apparent some extended time into the life of the product.

There are other considerations also, for example if a brand new car was drive out of the dealership, and found that a headlamp bulb was not working. The car is technically not road worthy, and it has fault at point of sale. But it would not be reasonable to expect a brand new replacement car or a full refund when it is five minute job to replace the bulb.

For an item as expensive as a caravan or a car, where you are hoping for a full refund, or replacement or complex repairs then you should seek professional legal advice.

SoGA only applies between you and the seller of the product. The seller is the person or company that takes your money - so it is unlikely to be the manufacture as caravans are usually sold through dealers Or it might be a finance house if you have used finance or HP. In some cases there is a joint responsibility between the dealer and Finance house - your legal advisor should be able to tell you your position.

Some ground rules.

If it is your intention to seek a refund or new replacement you must write to the seller(s) telling them you "reject the caravan", and give the reasons. Ask them to arrange the refund or replacement within a reasonable time period (e.g.20 working days). And await their response.

You must give them a reasonable time to respond, and you must also allow their representative time and access to the caravan in order to make any notes or inspection they ask for.

Keep records of communications, and always ask for any verbal communications to be followed up with a written one. Do not accept any offer made verbally always have it in writing.

It may seem unnecessary to say this, but be honest about the problem and circumstances - if it goes to court, any unreasonable behaviour or claims will count against any final judgment.

In such cases, often the seller will return the product to the manufacture for assessment. To that extend the manufacturer is acting as a sub contractor to the seller, not the sellers master. The manufacture may refuse to accept liability for the fault, and the seller may try to adopt the same stance quoting the manufactures position. Do not be bullied by this tactic. Your contract is with the seller - not the manufacture. There are detailed differences between the contract that you have with the seller, and the sellers contract with the manufacturer. If you are advised you have a strong case, you may still claim against the seller irrespective of the opinion of the manufacture - that is a problem for the seller sort out not you.

The case for a repair rather than replacement.

Particularly for high value items like cars and caravans, the seller is likely to offer a repair. This is not always the bad news you might think. For some problems a repair is a perfectly sound solution. The rider has to be that the completed repair should be undetectable, and not devalue the product in any way. Nor should it compromise the design, safety, usability, reliability and appearance of the product.

If you opt for a repair, make it clear to the seller that you still retain the right to reject the repaired product if it does not come up to scratch.

With such a young caravan, there should be no problem with the seller accepting liability for the fault, but you may have a fight if you want to go for full refund or new replacement which is why I strongly suggest you get professional legal advicers.
please read the blue comment on the one above i didnt mean to put it there i wanted it below the last one gosh im a dime bar.

jo
 
May 20, 2007
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Hi all,

Thanks for all your comments and advice, the wheels are in motion and I am awaiting replies from both the dealer and manufacturer.

I will of course keep you imformed of progress.

Trev.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Morning Trev

As you can see from John L's and other posts you are not alone here.

Let's see what the Dealer and Manufacturer say, this week, and then you can exercise the most appropriate right for you.

Cheers

Dustydog
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Jo-anne (Wyoming)

20th Feb 08:55 AM

Hiya, ive been in your position with 2 brand new vans and i rejected them. alan dusty dog will help you like he helped me but i will give you a bit of quick advise. google sales of goods act quicks facts.

you van has an INHERANT fault which is a fault at the time of sale but not noticed until you use it. i would write to the dealer rejecting the caravan under the reasons of the sales of goods act 1976? as amended and tell them you want a replacement with no delivery charge. i also sent a copy to the manu both sent special delivery. i gave them 14 days to reply.

i did get a replacement twice and also rejected the second one, and rejected the awning aswell because that had faults. i got my money back for the van, awning, motor mover and the delivery charge. dont take no for an answer a repair is a no no you paid for this you want a replacememnt or your money back. i told them i wanted my money back because 2 replacements i had lost faith and i wasnt caravaning anymore but i just wanted my money back and to go to another dealer.

i got a wyoming, isabella capri lux and a motor mover for the price of the single axel sterling, bradcot awning and single axel motor mover. i got a better deal from a different dealer.

alan helped me alot and i did alot myself im like a dog with a bone so dont let them get away with it. it should have been found when they did a pdq or whatever its called.

please keep us posted. if you need anymore help just shout but im sure alan will have it in hand.

good luck

jo

jo-anne
 

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