Am thinking of getting new passat 2.0 tdi 140ps s. Brochure dosnt give kerbweight only unladen weight, Vwagen uk say that figure is also the kerbweight. Towsure say it is 1715kg, Vwagen say 1510kg. How can both definitions be the same? Any one can help?
Volkswagen Passat kerbweight
- Thread starter michael_374324390
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TDI 140Sport Estate with me in it - 1720-1740 kgs (depending upon what I`ve had for breakfast) on a calibrated weighbridge.
Never mind the books, this is the only one that is accurate.
Never mind the books, this is the only one that is accurate.
As I am sure Lutz will point out, a printed kerbweight in a brochure will probably not include all the factory fitted optional extra's you choose to add, so the printed figure will really be a very bare vehicle.
Even though car manufactures make great efforts to ensure that all the parts that go to make up a car are the same, there is some tolerance and that will affect the ex-works weight. For example even the choice of paint can add few Kg to the weight. Different seat materials, the amount of sound deadening material etc - the hands free car phone kit, it all adds up!
The only real answer is to use a weighbridge.
Although Angus's result is close to the Towsure figure, your own car Michael could be somewhat different.
Even though car manufactures make great efforts to ensure that all the parts that go to make up a car are the same, there is some tolerance and that will affect the ex-works weight. For example even the choice of paint can add few Kg to the weight. Different seat materials, the amount of sound deadening material etc - the hands free car phone kit, it all adds up!
The only real answer is to use a weighbridge.
Although Angus's result is close to the Towsure figure, your own car Michael could be somewhat different.
Kerbweight is specific to every car. For a really accurate figure, you must do what Angus did and put the car on a weighbridge.
Unladen weight, as defined in the UK, is the weight without driver and without fuel and water. There is no legal definition for kerbweight and every manufacturer can include or leave out whatever he wishes. To alleviate this situation, the EU introduced the standard term MIRO or 'mass in running order'. This includes 75kg for the driver and sundry items and all oil and water and a 90% filled fuel tank. There is a general understanding in the industry that this is the same as kerbweight.
However, the rules governing what you may or may not drive with a UK driving licence still refer to unladen weight, not kerbweight and not MIRO, so VW are playing it safe by quoting the lower (unladen) weight figure.
Unladen weight, as defined in the UK, is the weight without driver and without fuel and water. There is no legal definition for kerbweight and every manufacturer can include or leave out whatever he wishes. To alleviate this situation, the EU introduced the standard term MIRO or 'mass in running order'. This includes 75kg for the driver and sundry items and all oil and water and a 90% filled fuel tank. There is a general understanding in the industry that this is the same as kerbweight.
However, the rules governing what you may or may not drive with a UK driving licence still refer to unladen weight, not kerbweight and not MIRO, so VW are playing it safe by quoting the lower (unladen) weight figure.
Thanks for info,I will ask the dealer for a test drive to the local weighbridge. If I estimate how much diesel in it then make this up to 90% of fulltank then add 75kilo that then should be the kerbweight to use in the calculation against my caravan, which has mptlm of 1400kg, is this right?
Yes, but don't get too concerned about accuracy. 50kg either way is not going to affect your weight ratio appreciably. Certainly not that you would notice any difference in stability when towing.
Thanks again,apart from this kerbweight problem has anyone any views on the 140ps passat eastate coupled with Bailey Burgandy.
One other thig VW gives unladen weight &kerbweight of Touran140ps Se as 1600kg,Towsafe says kerbweight 1558kg!!
I never knew about the without water bit Lutz. Roughly how much does the weight of the water add, or is it hugely different depending on model.
Colin.
Colin.
Michael,
I wouldn`t worry unduly about being so accurate with your weights.
The car has a towing limit of 1800kgs, will weigh approx 1700kgs and is only towing 1400kgs max.
I tow 1350kgs very easily with absolutely no stability problems, don`t spoil the experience by getting too bogged down with numbers. A well balanced and properly driven van will be safe in this combination.
Its supposed to be enjoyment!
I wouldn`t worry unduly about being so accurate with your weights.
The car has a towing limit of 1800kgs, will weigh approx 1700kgs and is only towing 1400kgs max.
I tow 1350kgs very easily with absolutely no stability problems, don`t spoil the experience by getting too bogged down with numbers. A well balanced and properly driven van will be safe in this combination.
Its supposed to be enjoyment!
Hello Colin,
Water weighs in at 1Kg for every litre, yes it will depend on the model and how much you have in the windscreen washers, and if you left window opn during the last rain storm !!!!
By the way, caravans are not covered by the the EU Directive. Motor homes are. Therefore, although caravan manufacturers nowadays usually specify a MIRO, there is no common understanding what the MIRO of a caravan does or does not include. Some include what they call 'essential habitation equipment', others do not. On the other hand, for cars and motor homes, the definition of MIRO is very specific.
However, there is can still be a difference between MIRO and kerbweight. MIRO is an ex-works weight. Kerbweight is actual, i.e. after installation of permanently fitted accessories, such as the towbar. Towbars and all their associated parts (fasteners, additional reinforcements, wiring harness, etc.) alone can weight up to about 40kg.
The only weight that never changes is GVW, MTPLM or MAM (maximum allowable mass). There are very slight differences of defintion between the three but they are not worth going into detail here.
However, there is can still be a difference between MIRO and kerbweight. MIRO is an ex-works weight. Kerbweight is actual, i.e. after installation of permanently fitted accessories, such as the towbar. Towbars and all their associated parts (fasteners, additional reinforcements, wiring harness, etc.) alone can weight up to about 40kg.
The only weight that never changes is GVW, MTPLM or MAM (maximum allowable mass). There are very slight differences of defintion between the three but they are not worth going into detail here.
Thanks again for help. Test drove new 57reg passat tdi 140 SE, took it to weigh bridge to get to the bottom of the VW weight mystery!! The fuel guage was half way between 3/4 & full,and I presume all other levels were full. It was weighed with noone inside and weighed 1540kg,I have the stamped printout to prove it.
If I add 75kg for driver and luggage this gives me the same method used by Ford and Vauxall and enables me to compare kerbweights, This makes a kerbweight under EU95/48/EC of approx 1615kg.
VW seems to have stripped a lot of weight from car from when it was shown as 1715kg a year or so ago. At least it is better than the 1510kg I was told was the kerbweight by VW.
Do you think it will be a good all round match for a Bailey Burgandy 1400 mtlpm. I can easily do without 30kg of caravan payload.The reason I,m a little cautios is that my wife takes the grandkids away sometimes on her own.
If I add 75kg for driver and luggage this gives me the same method used by Ford and Vauxall and enables me to compare kerbweights, This makes a kerbweight under EU95/48/EC of approx 1615kg.
VW seems to have stripped a lot of weight from car from when it was shown as 1715kg a year or so ago. At least it is better than the 1510kg I was told was the kerbweight by VW.
Do you think it will be a good all round match for a Bailey Burgandy 1400 mtlpm. I can easily do without 30kg of caravan payload.The reason I,m a little cautios is that my wife takes the grandkids away sometimes on her own.
So long as you don't exceed the gross train weight, it's really not worth bothering about the 30kg that you mention.
As I said, kerbweight is very specific to each car and I have no reason to question either your kerbweight figure of 1615kg or the 1715kg that you mention from other sources. Such differences are quite normal and do not indicate that VW have done any stripping.
As I said, kerbweight is very specific to each car and I have no reason to question either your kerbweight figure of 1615kg or the 1715kg that you mention from other sources. Such differences are quite normal and do not indicate that VW have done any stripping.
Hi Michael,
And the weigh-bridge will have a measurement accuracy and precision error too - this measurement tolerance should be on the print-out and will probably be in the order of 20 kg.
As Lutz so expertly says, don't overly worry about small weight differences that are due to the individual nature of cars.
Regards, and enjoy the Passat, Robert
And the weigh-bridge will have a measurement accuracy and precision error too - this measurement tolerance should be on the print-out and will probably be in the order of 20 kg.
As Lutz so expertly says, don't overly worry about small weight differences that are due to the individual nature of cars.
Regards, and enjoy the Passat, Robert
Michael, I tow with an 07 Passat Estate, 2.0 TDI 170. The MTPLM of my van is 1436kgs. It is an awesome and very stable tow.
With regards to the kerbweight of the Passat, there was a mistake in the VW brochures until the beginning of this year. VW have revised the figures since and lowered them by 200kgs, in line with the 1540kgs that you got of the weighbridge.
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