VW Passat - Wrong weight in brochures

[Herv]

Hi,

I ordered my VW Passat 2.0 TDI SEL 170bhp with DSG gearbox in January 2007. The kerbweight of the car, in the VW brochure of the same month, was down as 1737kgs. Of course this weight was taken into account when I chose the car.

I have seen a couple of articles (including one in Pratical Caravan) mentioning that there were mistakes in the VW brochures published prior to early 2007. Indeed, it turns out my Passat is 200kgs lighter than originally stated in the brochure.

My Passat is a lease vehicle and I asked the leasing company to raise the matter with Volkswagen. I have posted VW's reply below for reference. As you can see, VW are putting the emphasis of the towing capability (unchanged) as opposed to the kerbweight.

My lease has another 2 years to run but the leasing company have stated that they cannot be held responsible for how the manufacturers calculate and publish the information as it is something beyond their control.

There is nothing wrong with the Passat as such - it is a great car.

However, I feel totally misled in my choice of vehicle by VW's mistake. I would go as far as "not fit for purpose", even though I am still below the 100% car/caravan weight ratio (higher than 85% though).

Have any of you come across similar problems? What was VW's response?

I look forward to your input.

Thanking you in advance.

HervÇ.

-----

Here is VW's reply :

"Firstly, I would like to thank you for your patience in allowing us the

time to provide you with an official response to your query. The question

regarding the actual weight of your vehicle and the stated weight in the

handbook has now been escalated and reviewed.

The change in the published weight of your customer's Passat between the

2006 and 2007 brochures reflected a change in stance from publishing the

fully equipped weight of the vehicle to a weight that represents a base

specification weight.

There are many factors that affect a vehicles towing ability, the weight

of the vehicle being one of them and Volkswagen publish a towing capability

which takes account of all factors such as engine power output,

transmission type, suspension systems and weight of optional equipment.

Our vehicles are thoroughly tested and we publish the specific towing

weight capability of our models to enable our customers to buy the

appropriate model in our range. Our published values have not changed and

therefore provided you purchased an appropriate vehicle based on our

published towing capability we are confident our vehicle will perform in

the way you expected.

Thank you once again for enabling me to have the time to investigate this

matter thoroughly on your behalf.

Yours sincerely

Kind regards

***NAME WHITHELD***

Leasing Liaison Executive

Volkswagen Fleet Business Centre"

 

[Angus1]

You have an incredibly light Passat there Herve!

I have a 2006 140TDI Sport Estate with manual box, and with me on board it weighs in between 1720 and 1740 kgs depending on fuel, sweets, junk etc, and I ain`t THAT heavy!

Even in this litigation-frenzied world we now reside in I don`t think you would have a snowballs chance of claiming its not fit for purpose.

They also publish fuel consumption figures and performance figures, if your doesn`t meet these would you consider legal action? What if its faster than claimed, can you sue them for putting your life in danger as you only wanted a car that would do (say) 136mph and not one that would do 138mph?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Herve,

I think you wold have enormous difficulty in convincing a judge to declare the VW was not fit for purpose because its kerb-weight is less than specified in the brochure.

Firstly and probably most importantly , most brochures will state that the figures are subject to change without notice and that errors and omissions are excepted (E&OE), and in general the fact that the kerb-weight is lower than suggested does not reduce the overall load capacity, in fact it increases it. Most people would see this as being a positive. It is also up to the buyer to check specifications before purchase.

To be able claim a product is not fit for purpose, it must fail in a substantial or critical way to meet either a specific criteria or generally accepted level of performance. The only way you could have met this would be to have made the kerb weight a special criteria of the your contract to purchase.

If you had asked the supplier for the kerb weight, and they quoted the brochure then you might have a case under trades descriptions act, but if you did not ask, then it is assumed that the kw is not a critical specification for you.

The only reason I can thin of for making such a criteria, would be if you have a driving license that has category C without the +E, which limits your trailer mass to 100% of the kerb-weight of the tug. Here you might need the larger kerb-weight to accommodate the mass of a specific caravan. As you point out, you are still below the 100% ratio.

Realistically, have you actually had your cars kerb-weight measured? Quite frequently a car will weigh more than the standard figure, because of the range of extras fitted. The auto gearbox may add a few Kg, wider profile tyres, leather seats, CD multi-changer, etc. These items can add several Kg to a kerb-weight.

From a practical point of view the calculated ratio (I.e.85%) is an absolute worst case scenario. The car at lits lightest, and the caravan at its heaviest. This is always bettered when towing as you will have people and luggage in the car, and you should not exceed the MPTLM of the caravan.

If you are happy with VW as a tow car, and you have had no weight related problems, then is there really problem?

 

[Lutz]

Kerbweight has no legal bearing (other than driving licence requirements) so the car manufacturers are under no obligation to provide accurate data. Besides, kerbweight is specific to each vehicle, depending on its level of equipment, so any figure in brochures, etc. can only be a guideline.

 

[GeorgeB]

Herv'e,

You've just highlighted what I've been banging on about for years, INACURATE DATA published by the manufactures, just how do you make an informed decision if the data supplied is wrong!

The VW group problem is previously they published (in Germany & it's never been checked or corrected by the importers, world wide never mind England) the kerbside weight of a model with every conceivable option, which indicated to us caravanners "a good tow car" then they switched to publishing the minimum kerbside weight, that of a base model with no options!

Now here's the rub! the VW side continued until 2007/8 publishing the max possible kerbside weight & the Audi side from about 2001 published the minimum kerbside weight!

Point in fact, my Audi A4 Avant 2 litre TDi Auto, published kerbside weight 1490kg actual kerbside weight 1618kg. Sometimes they even publish the correct weight on the vehicles data sticker stuck on the inside cover of the service book, have a look at the left hand side of the bottom line, if right at the begining it has 4 digits, thats the actual weight of your car as it came of the assembly line!

 

[GeorgeB]

Herv'e,

What Ishould have also said is if that info is not in your service book, take the car to a public weigh bridge, you may be in for a pleasant surprise!, it could weigh nearly or as much as the original "published" weight, as the weight now given is that of a 1.6 petrol manual with NO options, as supplied in Germany, and that is one VERY basic car!

 

[RogerL]

Lutz - the restrictions on licence holders since 1997 with B only were brought in as European-wide legislation - kerbweight must not be exceeded by trailer max weight, a restriction that also applies in Germany under Tempo 100.

What kerbweight is used by the authorities in these cases?

Are car manufacturers really under no obligation to provide accurate information?

 

[Lutz]

The published weights do not correspond to standard German specification either, but are calculated by addition of all component part weights for a purely theoretical vehicle without any options. In practice, however, no such car will ever be produced.

 

[Lutz]

You are right, Roger. For the purpose you state, you do need to know the kerbweight and I have just checked in my vehicle registration documentation, where it is shown. However, while gross vehicle weight and gross train weights are absolute and cannot be changed without approval from the manufacturer, the kerbweight data can be revised upon application by the owner to reflect later modifications (such as conversion from a van to a motorhome, for example).

 

[RogerL]

As far as cars go, the kerbweight has only been on V5C in recent years - earlier cars just have spaces.

 

[Herv]

All,

Many thanks for your comments and contribution.

There is still the issue that if my caravan weighed say 1600kgs, I would be towing more that 100% of the car kerbweight. So would I be expected to change the caravan AFTER choosing the Passat which on paper was showing a ratio less than 100%?

The query with the lease company is still ongoing...

 

[Herv]

You have an incredibly light Passat there Herve!

I have a 2006 140TDI Sport Estate with manual box, and with me on board it weighs in between 1720 and 1740 kgs depending on fuel, sweets, junk etc, and I ain`t THAT heavy!

Even in this litigation-frenzied world we now reside in I don`t think you would have a snowballs chance of claiming its not fit for purpose.

They also publish fuel consumption figures and performance figures, if your doesn`t meet these would you consider legal action? What if its faster than claimed, can you sue them for putting your life in danger as you only wanted a car that would do (say) 136mph and not one that would do 138mph?

According to the VW brochure (dated June 07), your car kerbweight is 1510 kgs(unladen with 90% tank capacity without driver). Interesting... Did they really manage to trim 200kgs between 2006 and 2007?

 

[Lutz]

Only if you passed your driving test after the 1st January 1997 does the kerbweight have any legal bearing on what you may tow. Otherwise it's always the limit as specified by the car manufacturer.

 

[Rubix]

Lutz Said :

"Only if you passed your driving test after the 1st January 1997 does the kerbweight have any legal bearing on what you may tow. Otherwise it's always the limit as specified by the car manufacturer."

So if you pick the 6 CD changer instead of the 1 CD stereo, that doesn't give you a higher towing limit.

Seriously though, I know they publish their max towing limits, but if you have ALL the options (GLX SI turbo plus !!!), your vehicle will weigh quite a bit more than the base L model.

So I assume that you are insinuating that the max towing limit will be unchanged, BUT stabilty will be affected (ie using the 85% "rule as a guide).

So from Herv

 

[Lutz]

The 85% figure is totally arbitrary and it alone doesn't guarantee a stable outfit. Therefore, I just wanted to point out what you may tow legally, not what could be considered appropriate.