Warning -been stung with a rotten caravan - need some advice

[slewis1972]

Hi

Bought a 93 Lunar Eclipse off a dealer last November and the dealer told me and the wife, everything checked out, no damp etc - we were pretty new hence why we went to a dealer. Anyway - had a nice holiday and then put it storage - had it covered. Had it home the last week and and got a water leak. Anyway -started to investigate and bam.

Previous owner had put new plyboards ontop of the old ones. One complete side and front - totally rotten. The dealer may have missed it, not sure. I paid £3K and now saying goodbye to it.

Just a word of warning to those other newbies, dont trust a dealer, take someone with you who knows something about caravans.

Anyway - I am going to speak with the dealer, as within 6 months and I think I have some comeback. I have stripped one of the top layers of new plyboard off and its completly wet. We had no damp smell as the wood for main frame and plywood is socking wet. Also - by putting in a dmap meter, nothing came up as need to go through 2 layers of plywood and vinyl wal covering. Also - one of the walls has a bunk bed on and we were going to use that this easter - glad I did not as it may have fallen onto my daughter or son.

Now, if the dealer does not play ball, I am going to need to get a independant inspector out - any ideas where I can get one and approx cost. Luckily father in law is a solicitor.

Any advice appreciated. Now looking at far new caravans, 2000 onwards or may just go and buy a Bailey Ranger

Scott

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Forget having an inspection I would have the father in law to write to the dealer on headed paper and quoting the sale of goods act and the fit for puprpose clause. Should do the trick as the dealer would not like the adverse publicity of a court case.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Forget having an inspection I would have the father in law to write to the dealer on headed paper and quoting the sale of goods act and the fit for puprpose clause. Should do the trick as the dealer would not like the adverse publicity of a court case.

forgot to mention that the van was not of merchantable quality.

 

[AnnM1]

Hi Scot

If the dealer is not ready to play ball I would do exactly as Colin suggests. Don't waste any more time. Ask father in law to send a speedy letter on headed paper. As you had your wife with you when all the sales pitch was taking place you should be OK.

Sorry you have had a bad experience. Not all dealers treat their customers in this way.

Hope you get it sorted before too long.

Ann

 

[mcghee]

Much as I dislike dealers, yours may not be entirely to blame. The dealer who took my last 'van as a trade in gave me top book price without even seeing the 'van and when I delivered it to him he opened the door, looked down the 'van, and shook my hand. He'll probably sell that 'van on in much the same manner. My advice would be to explain your grim discovery to your dealer and politely but firmly suggest what should be done about it before you go sending legal letters. Best of luck.

 

[Guest]

Tend to agree with Craig. The majority of dealers don't really look beyond obvious dents and marks when taking a caravan in as a trade in, especially if it is on the older side.

I agree that approaching the dealer in a dignified and responsible manner to ascertain what is available to you is the best initial approach. The minute you send a legal letter any other possible solution will be off the table immediately. The dealer would have no choice. However, if the first approach does not give any satisfaction then by all means look at legal methods, but advise the dealer this will be your next step as well. He/she can not then use the excuse 'if you had only contacted me etc etc'. What would be nice would be for the dealer to take the van back, and give you the value paid against a newer van.

Not trying to be disrespectful but 3k for a van is not really going to get the best available, unless you are lucky. At that price a decent private sale may have been more beneficial.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you do

 

[slewis1972]

Hi

So far 5 phone calls, fobbed off with being busy, will call you tonight etc. I will be phone them tomorrow and basically saying the score. Plus I will be faxing and posting via registered post a letter, giving them 5 days to respond. No response, father in law will start small claim court

Will clear out van of all my stuff, and take loads of pictures.

Scott

 

[slewis1972]

Hi

So far 5 phone calls, fobbed off with being busy, will call you tonight etc. I will be phone them tomorrow and basically saying the score. Plus I will be faxing and posting via registered post a letter, giving them 5 days to respond. No response, father in law will start small claim court

Will clear out van of all my stuff, and take loads of pictures.

Scott

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Hi

So far 5 phone calls, fobbed off with being busy, will call you tonight etc. I will be phone them tomorrow and basically saying the score. Plus I will be faxing and posting via registered post a letter, giving them 5 days to respond. No response, father in law will start small claim court

Will clear out van of all my stuff, and take loads of pictures.

Scott

Be careful - I am not sure whether digital photos are accepted in a court of law as they can be enhanced on the computer. Ask your father in law. Might be worth investing in a throw away camera from Tesco and quick developing process in Boots the Chemist.

 

[sparkes]

Be careful - I am not sure whether digital photos are accepted in a court of law as they can be enhanced on the computer. Ask your father in law. Might be worth investing in a throw away camera from Tesco and quick developing process in Boots the Chemist.

Colin

yes they are, all digital photos contain a set of data that states when and with what it was taken as well as the iso, zoom etc.

Some of this can be edited but others cannot. However, if you try to edit the image then the camera name is changed to that of the editor making it very easy to see (if you have the right software.

Parking attendents now take digital pictures of a car with a ticket on to prove it was where they said it was

Steve

 

[UKHunk]

Hi Scott

Yea Scott that happened to me about ten years ago,i got a van for 3k and it was so rotton it cost almost another two to put right by the dealer and after many threats of going to court,all the dealer said it will cost you more money,ANYWAY my main reason for writing this is to say that this last saturday i have spent 11 hours looking at vans from dealers in east anglia,one dealer had about 24 to sell and half had damp in them,now another dealer i looked at in west suffolk and spent four hour here,some of the vans looked good on the inside but complely rotton on the front end around window frames,floors had gone and covered up,Open up the front lockers and inspect the woodwork thats hidden,water always finds its own levels,also found a van which was 1999 with the floor gone,i could go on Scott but to be honhest i think there are more water ingress vans out there than dry ones,now i know thats a rash statement but i believe that to be so,how can you prove to a person that a van doesnt leak anywhere,you cant,even a new van will take about 4 to 5 years to rot the wood then show itself,if ever you have gone down to the frame work of a van you can see for yourself it is useless and i have no faith in any dealer or van now, a Damp metre is no good as you dont always get the readings with wet and dry rot,I looked this weekend as i said and found three out of proberley 30 in my price range which was up to 5k,i normally go and look at vans and i take tools with me to look including a needle as you can use this behind blinds and things without doing damage and it will soon find the rot,By the way have you looked at the sprite Alpine,thats only

 

[slewis1972]

Hi,

I have to tend to agree on your thoughts ref water in vans. I am now decided I am going for a 2001 onwards model and fingers crossed. If they are not good, then I will just buy a new one with a warranty and bite the bullet. I am looking at 12-15 years plus for caravanning wih the kids, and I do cover my van when not in use so hopefully that will help preserve my next van.

Anyway - they have still not returned my calls, going to call them to today and then fax and post them a letter giving them 5 days to respond. Then its over to the solitor to sue them under the sale of goods act and the fit for puprpose clause

Scott

 

[CliveV]

Best of luck Scott.

I would have suggested you write three letters rather than tel calls as letters are evidence of contact - tel calls are very hard to prove.

The solicitors letter will help I am sure.

Do you have the "Bill of Sale"?

Was it sold with any comments? - "sold as seen" is a favourite

But if any advert (GO BACK THRO' LOCAL PAPERS - TRADE PAPERS etc. TO FIND WHAT & HOW THE DEALER DESCRIBED YOUR 'VAN) said things like "Immaculate" - "Super Condition" etc. you may be able to use this info if he digs his heels in.

"One careful owner" is a favourite! - always remember that may be true - but the other five not-so-careful owners may have had an effect.

I think I was very lucky I bought my 'van from Blackmore Vale in Shaftesbury Dorset. Even two years later he remembers me when I ring and asks how things are going.

He took me right thro' the 'van, with a damp meter, removed panels to get into the difficult places, pointed out all the work they would be doing before I picked it up and has been true to his word in all respects.

I said I would be taking off the awning rails and the window rails to reseal - he came out with a large tube of the stuff they used in their workshop. A small gesture cost wise but a far greater one when it comes to trust.

When I went back a few weeks later for a few spares he let me have them at cost price.

So there are honourable guys about.

But from what I hear - avoid the large car and caravan "Supermarket" centres - and buy your own damp meter.

Also if a damp panel has been covered up with a new one - use the meter at the joins - damp will show up here but not in the centre of the panel.

If silicone sealant is visible - walk away - if it has been used it will split with movement and let water in again after one journey - use the proper none setting "goo".

As I posted before - when I did mine I was appalled at the slapdash way the sealant had been applied in the factory. Great gobs of it in places and nothing more than a pencil line in others.

GREAT satisfaction in now knowing that all the joints are sound.

BUT - it has stopped me trading up. We would like a 'van with a large walk in end bathroom now there is just the two of us and the dogs (and they go outside) - but my van is sound, it does not leak and we like it.

Why would we want the risk of trading up to a whole lot of problems?

I keep looking at what they have at Shaftesbury tho!

 

[ThePlotter]

Scott sorry to hear of your problems,you say you paid

 

[slewis1972]

Well, I was silly enough to pay cash, some cheque I believe.

The current situ is the dealer wont play ball, says how can he check for severe water ingress etc. Anyway -I then threatened him with court action and he say well, he does not give warranty and they are already in there overdraft etc and that I should try and sell privatly, but no way I can do as shelves are totally rotten and its not safe.

Anyway - I followed up that conversation with a call to Bup consumer advise - my work pays for it and Caravan Club consumer advice. Both told me the same thing. As the complaint is within 6 months, I can sue them under thr Supply of Goods Regulations 2002 Act as of the item being faulty. Seems this applies to second hand items and is valid for 6months from purchase.And it seesm they have to prove the damage has not been caused by me and not vice versa.

So, I have sent the dealer a letter by Special Delivery giving them 5 days to respond, stating the whole incident, and giving him the option to cough up the

 

[UKHunk]

Well, I was silly enough to pay cash, some cheque I believe.

The current situ is the dealer wont play ball, says how can he check for severe water ingress etc. Anyway -I then threatened him with court action and he say well, he does not give warranty and they are already in there overdraft etc and that I should try and sell privatly, but no way I can do as shelves are totally rotten and its not safe.

Anyway - I followed up that conversation with a call to Bup consumer advise - my work pays for it and Caravan Club consumer advice. Both told me the same thing. As the complaint is within 6 months, I can sue them under thr Supply of Goods Regulations 2002 Act as of the item being faulty. Seems this applies to second hand items and is valid for 6months from purchase.And it seesm they have to prove the damage has not been caused by me and not vice versa.

So, I have sent the dealer a letter by Special Delivery giving them 5 days to respond, stating the whole incident, and giving him the option to cough up the

 

[ThePlotter]

I and many others I guess would be interested to know how this turns out.

 

[ThePlotter]

I and many others I guess would be interested to know how this turns out.

 

[AnnM1]

Hi Scot

Sorry, but I wouldn't accept work being done on the van by the dealer. You would never be able to sell it for its market value. If a new purchaser asks about its condition you would have to be honest and tell him about the damp problems. If you didn't you could be on the receiving end of a solicitors letter. Nor would I accept another caravan in part-exchange. Tell him you want a complete refund or you are going to take it a great deal futher. Ignore any excuses.

Unfortunately, I would never trust such a dealer again.

 

[Vicky_5078445]

Best of luck Scott.

I would have suggested you write three letters rather than tel calls as letters are evidence of contact - tel calls are very hard to prove.

The solicitors letter will help I am sure.

Do you have the "Bill of Sale"?

Was it sold with any comments? - "sold as seen" is a favourite

But if any advert (GO BACK THRO' LOCAL PAPERS - TRADE PAPERS etc. TO FIND WHAT & HOW THE DEALER DESCRIBED YOUR 'VAN) said things like "Immaculate" - "Super Condition" etc. you may be able to use this info if he digs his heels in.

"One careful owner" is a favourite! - always remember that may be true - but the other five not-so-careful owners may have had an effect.

I think I was very lucky I bought my 'van from Blackmore Vale in Shaftesbury Dorset. Even two years later he remembers me when I ring and asks how things are going.

He took me right thro' the 'van, with a damp meter, removed panels to get into the difficult places, pointed out all the work they would be doing before I picked it up and has been true to his word in all respects.

I said I would be taking off the awning rails and the window rails to reseal - he came out with a large tube of the stuff they used in their workshop. A small gesture cost wise but a far greater one when it comes to trust.

When I went back a few weeks later for a few spares he let me have them at cost price.

So there are honourable guys about.

But from what I hear - avoid the large car and caravan "Supermarket" centres - and buy your own damp meter.

Also if a damp panel has been covered up with a new one - use the meter at the joins - damp will show up here but not in the centre of the panel.

If silicone sealant is visible - walk away - if it has been used it will split with movement and let water in again after one journey - use the proper none setting "goo".

As I posted before - when I did mine I was appalled at the slapdash way the sealant had been applied in the factory. Great gobs of it in places and nothing more than a pencil line in others.

GREAT satisfaction in now knowing that all the joints are sound.

BUT - it has stopped me trading up. We would like a 'van with a large walk in end bathroom now there is just the two of us and the dogs (and they go outside) - but my van is sound, it does not leak and we like it.

Why would we want the risk of trading up to a whole lot of problems?

I keep looking at what they have at Shaftesbury tho!

Clive

I was interested to read your write up about BMV in Shaftsbury, as we've visited a few times (very local to us) although we've never brought from them before, but will definitely keep your experience in mind!

Vicky

 

[slewis1972]

Yep, I am going for the whole lot as agree, trust has gone with this dealer. I am now going to either buy new or nearly new and make sure I look after the van. If I buy from a dealer, its one I know is good, such as recommended by caravan club.

Oh - and heres to law pdf sheet

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/guide/sogconsumerguide.pdf
Interesting reading and one that I will referring to again.

Scott

 

[sparkes]

Best of luck with it all Scott.

If you want a good dealer then chichester caravans are superb both pre and after sales

Steve

PS, the BAR is always a good way to deal with this kind of problem ;-)

 

[whitetop]

Sorry to hear about your problems Scott.

Firstly, you say that the dealer said no damp. As there were layers of ply over the area, it may have been difficult to spot with a damp meter, but if a dealer is any good at all, he / she should have noticed the repair / cover-up.

You are lucky that the father in law is a solicitor as he will be familiar with terms such as "fit for pupose". You say that it was not of "merchantable quality". What do you mean? Was it advertised with problems.

Even a forty year old van must be correctly described.

Do not be put off by the "Sold as Seen" routine.

If the dealer does not come clean and refund you or at least give you the amount back as a trade-in, I would like to know what the dealers name is, so that I do not go there.

Are they main dealers for the make? Do the manufacturers know what they are up to? Are they dealers for any other brands?

Are they dealers for caravans or a garage that sells the odd caravan and call themselves dealers?

Good Luck

David

 

[slewis1972]

HI,

The caravan was sold to me that everything had been checked including damp. I have found places on the van now I know what to look for, where they could have checked. I just dont think they did. They deal in secondhand vans and are advertised on autotrader website, as I have looked. I cannot find the old description and there is nothing on the sales receipt to say sold as seen plus the law now says I have rights even for secondhand equipment sold to me by a dealer.

I have just take 12 pictures of the damage and handing them to my father-in-law on Tuesday as I have not heard anything from them since I sent my initial letter and I know its been signed for. Hopefully, a letter to them from my solicitor will tell them to act otherwise its a N1 form and off to small claims.

The van basically I think is unsafe due to the sheer amount of water in the walls. One part of the wall is starting to dry out now since I took off the extra layer of board. The other though is not and still very wet. I can only think this has gone into the main wooden supports, the ones holding the windows in are exceptionally wet and if the structure is unsecure as the water is all around one side and the corner, god knows what would happen.

Scott

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

hi scott, i bought our 1st van brand new from a dealer in coventry in october.it is an avondale dart 556/6 godiva special edition. we had great service and got a great deal.as it was our 1st van we needed evrything like waste m, aqua r, etc.we also had a motor mover added on and in total we spent 12,800.the repayments are 157 per month its over a long period but we can change the van when we want.the % rate is approx 5% which is much lower than a lot of banks.i would buy second hand i know a lot of people who have had damp probs aswell.

there is alot of deals out there you just need to look.we have just come back from the cotswolds and on our site the was a lot of baileys indianas arizonas etc.the sprites are a good buy.but its up to you.please let us all know how the case is going and what you plan on doing about a new van.