Water heater problem

[MDemaine]

Hi everybody!

I use the forum a lot but this is my first post!

So i have a Abbey gts vogue 1999 caravan and i go a red fault light the last time I was away indicating a problem with my hot water heater.

It I should a carver cascade rapide. It works perfectly on gas but will not heat on electricity. I checked all the fuses around the van and all are okay. I pressed the reset button, but No joy.
I replaced the heating element but still no luck.

Whether the gas is turned on or not, it 'clicks' to light the gas, I don't know if this is normal

I don't think there is a switch swap between the two :s

PLEASE HELP!

THANKS IN ADVANCE!

 

[ProfJohnL]

First of all download the instruction manual from here
http://www.arcsystems.biz/manuals/Cascade2.PDF

The electric and gas heating systems have entirely different controls. The mains control switch should be a fused spur switch. Some but not all manufacturers used a switch panel with a mains neon to show when its turned on.

 

[MDemaine]

Thank you for your replying ProfJohnL

I have read the manual and searched the internet and it all points towards the thermostat, which has now been replaced.

The heater doesn't have the separate 'red, amber and green' dial. It is all on the rcd.

Previously it used to instantly heat on electricity

I am in my late 20's and new to caravaning, I have invested a lot of time and money into the van and I still have other things to sort out.

I think our caravanning days were short lived, I have stayed in a hotel for my last two holidays because of the problem. We are very outdoorsy but I have two boys and don't like leaving the gas on

Thanks for your help

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you for your replying ProfJohnL

I have read the manual and searched the internet and it all points towards the thermostat, which has now been replaced.

The heater doesn't have the separate 'red, amber and green' dial. It is all on the rcd.

Previously it used to instantly heat on electricity

I am in my late 20's and new to caravaning, I have invested a lot of time and money into the van and I still have other things to sort out.

I think our caravanning days were short lived, I have stayed in a hotel for my last two holidays because of the problem. We are very outdoorsy but I have two boys and don't like leaving the gas on

Thanks for your help

I think if you have bought into caravanning with teh idea its almost as cheap as camping, then I'm sorry you have been misguided. It is considerably more expensive than camping, but it can be a lot cheaper than other types of holidays.

IF you are concerned about the gas ( which is a sensibel stance) then it will pay you to have teh gas system checked for performance adn safety. Lok for a mobile caravan engineer who will come and to teh checks for you.

As for teh safety of a gas heater in a caravan, provided it has been installed correctly ,and been maintained properly. its should be just as safe as your gas fired central heating at home day or night. These products are "room sealed" and vent all products of combustion outside, not into teh living area. The only gas products that do that are the cooker and grill/oven

 

[Raywood]

I rather think the electric heater has a failed thermostat or the heating element has failed. The heater is 18 years old and the problem would not be uncommon. Using the gas to heat the water should give you hot water fairly quickly and it would be easy enough to turn it on and off as you need it so I would use the caravan, but i agree if the caravan has not been serviced within the last year I would have the gas at least checked.

 

[MDemaine]

Thank you Raywood

I have done the breaks on the trailer, replaced the tyres as they looked very old, replaced all the lights to led plus added extra, bought a lovely limited edition awning (second hand hardly used), changed the alko hitchlock breaks, changed faulty taps, but now I have an earth fault (redlight instead of orange indicator) and the heating fault.

I wanted it working as i am staying on a serviced pitch in Cornwall and I prefer electricity.

I had hoped somebody would say 'there is a hidden fuse here' or 'switch between gas and electricity like this'

I don't know how to upload images here, but according to the manual there is some sort of cut out switch beneath the cowel, but I have never heard of this before :s

 

[Damian]

See here to upload pictures: https://www.practicalcaravan.com/forum/our-website/48966-how-to-photos

From what you have posted you have confused the issue to such an extent that it is impossible to answer your questions.
For a start the gas and electric side of the heater cannot under any circumstances be controlled by one switch alone.
There MUST be separate controls for each fuel source.
So, to say its all on the RCD is nonsense.

As for your comment about a cut out or switch under the cowel, there is a fusible plug which ONLY operates if the temperature of the heater gets to such an extent that a special compound in the plug melts and expels the water in the tank over the burner module.

 

[NigelHutson]

The caravan that i use for the various PCV projects is coincidentally a 1999 Abbey GTS (215 in this case).

The switches inside the table storage cupboard are for gas alone (just below the battery meter I seem to remember). The switch for using the mains electric heating element on ours is on the front of the bed box near to the water heater. Is this 'on', as the controls in the cupboard have nothing to do with the electric heating.

Apologies if you have tried this already.

Nigel.

 

[MDemaine]

Thanks, sorry for making it difficult but each reply takes20-30 mins as the text is delayed!

The caravan is at a family farm so I will get over there to take some pics as soon as I can.

My gas is always off, so the element heats the water (past tense)

At the top of the electricity board are three little lights, green, amber, red. This is for the gas as the green is lovely and bright when the gas is heating the water.

At the front of the caravan are two face-fixed plates with removable fuses, both marked 'water heater' both indicator lights come on when switched to 'on' position.

Single heater switch - up GAS down ELECTRIC?? Unknown! Up = 'HEATER' down = 'ON'

So as there are no known hidden cut-outs/fuses etc, I plan to figure out the heater switch above by checking the manual
THEN
Eliminate the 'GAS' face-fixed socket at
the front of the caravan
THEN
play the elimination game
• fuse in face plate
• reset heater
• test electricity currents & the feed to the element

Is that the best path to take?

 

[NigelHutson]

The two switches at the front. One says "Heater", and the other "Water Heater"? The "Heater" one is for the caravan's heating on mains - not linked to the water. The "Water Heater" one, like a house socket or single switch, is off when the top is in, and on when the bottom is in. Simple as that. Of course the boiler needs to be full of water before switching the power on (something I'm sure you'll be aware of).

Nigel.

 

[MDemaine]

That's brilliant Nigels

There's 2 on the front bed, both say 'water heater'

Both switches are 'on' but I don't know why there's two?

I though that the heater switch on the control panel had to be 'on'

I have hope now that maybe it still has life!

Thanks Nigel

 

[NigelHutson]

As I say, one of the switches will be for the heating system (Fanmaster), and the other for the water.

 

[NigelHutson]

MDemaine,

Did you get anywhere with this?

Nigel.

 

[DrZhivago]

That's brilliant Nigels ... There's 2 [switches] on the front bed, both say 'water heater'

As I say, one of the switches will be for the heating system (Fanmaster), and the other for the water.

Funny they should both say "Water Heater" then. Did the caravan maker (or someone since) pick up a wrongly marked switch and fit it?

I suggest to MDemaine that he first focuses on the heater itself. Disconnect the heater from all caravan circuitry and with a multimeter check its electrical continuity (ie you want to see a finite low resistance) across its terminals. I'm not familiar with the heater (I have one but cannot access it at the moment) but if you can separately check the continuity of each of its components (heating element, thermostat, fusible plug) do so. It is possible you were sold a duff new element. If all is OK then start working back up the line with the multimeter, is there continuity from the mains supply to the heater with the switch on, if not check separately each section of the circuit in between.

I don't want to offend your capabilities (you changed the element after all ), but as anyone could be reading this I would add that by "checking continuity" I mean using the resistance function of the multimeter, and the mains not connected to the caravan in any way at the time.