Water Ingress Elddis Xplore 554 part 2 - Preventative measures?

[LateGuitarist]

Posted a while ago about water Ingress from front window. After spending quite a lot of time and effort I have now repaired the quite extensive damage to the surrounding timber behind the seal, removed and refitted the hinge bar and repaired the crack in the ABS front panel.
I am not totally convinced that very much water was entering the crack in the panel, some was but not enough in my opinion to cause the damage. The timber behind the hinge bar was total porridge on the near side, and the bar was lifting away from the panel - I suspect water has been entering via the screw hole for probably quite some time, and being absorbed upwards as well as down by the almost sponge like plywood used. Also, the rubber seal did not look like it had ever been properly fitted. PLUS, when I removed the window and checked everything, the hinge bar was bowed, and distorted about 30cm from the end. This had been caused by the plastic lining of the male part of the hinge being damaged, chewing up and no doubt being responsible for the distorted hinge bar.
Now, I have only ever used the front window once, to get my lads surf board in and out the van one time, and I am sure there was not a problem in opening it that would have caused the hinge damage - frankly I don't have much faith in these big windows and decided not to use it generally anyway, so I reckon it was done during installation due to the hinge bar not being fitted straight. In any case this could be yet another route through the hinge for water, even though the rubber seal should stop it anyway? I presume the hinge bar is supposed to be the "first line" of defence? Having said that it ends short of the window aperture due to the curve of the window so it is a poor design if so (quite possible with Elddis).
Anyway - on to my question. I have come to the conclusion that in order to stop this happening again I am considering (1) Permanently fixing and sealing the window, in so doing hopefully preventing it moving in transit which may help to maintain seals and (2) Fixing some sort of "J" section guttering type strip above the window to prevent or restrict the amount of water even getting to the hinge bar, as I have seen on some other forums and Youtube etc.
I would welcome any comments or suggestions on these ideas, and recommendations as to the gutter strip and if it is best to only fix it with adhesive, and methods for permanently fixing the window to stop movement.
Please note for those who did not read my tail of woe a while ago, the warranty route is sadly closed in large part due to the dealer going bust.
TIA
Paul

 

[Buckman]

Posted a while ago about water Ingress from front window. After spending quite a lot of time and effort I have now repaired the quite extensive damage to the surrounding timber behind the seal, removed and refitted the hinge bar and repaired the crack in the ABS front panel.
I am not totally convinced that very much water was entering the crack in the panel, some was but not enough in my opinion to cause the damage. The timber behind the hinge bar was total porridge on the near side, and the bar was lifting away from the panel - I suspect water has been entering via the screw hole for probably quite some time, and being absorbed upwards as well as down by the almost sponge like plywood used. Also, the rubber seal did not look like it had ever been properly fitted. PLUS, when I removed the window and checked everything, the hinge bar was bowed, and distorted about 30cm from the end. This had been caused by the plastic lining of the male part of the hinge being damaged, chewing up and no doubt being responsible for the distorted hinge bar.
Now, I have only ever used the front window once, to get my lads surf board in and out the van one time, and I am sure there was not a problem in opening it that would have caused the hinge damage - frankly I don't have much faith in these big windows and decided not to use it generally anyway, so I reckon it was done during installation due to the hinge bar not being fitted straight. In any case this could be yet another route through the hinge for water, even though the rubber seal should stop it anyway? I presume the hinge bar is supposed to be the "first line" of defence? Having said that it ends short of the window aperture due to the curve of the window so it is a poor design if so (quite possible with Elddis).
Anyway - on to my question. I have come to the conclusion that in order to stop this happening again I am considering (1) Permanently fixing and sealing the window, in so doing hopefully preventing it moving in transit which may help to maintain seals and (2) Fixing some sort of "J" section guttering type strip above the window to prevent or restrict the amount of water even getting to the hinge bar, as I have seen on some other forums and Youtube etc.
I would welcome any comments or suggestions on these ideas, and recommendations as to the gutter strip and if it is best to only fix it with adhesive, and methods for permanently fixing the window to stop movement.
Please note for those who did not read my tail of woe a while ago, the warranty route is sadly closed in large part due to the dealer going bust.
TIA
Paul

I would think that if you permanently seal or bond a window, it may not be able to flex and the window may crack, but I am not an engineer. Just my thoughts.

 

[LateGuitarist]

I would think that if you permanently seal or bond a window, it may not be able to flex and the window may crack, but I am not an engineer. Just my thoughts.

Good point. I was thinking of more effectively fixing it as it is, to try and take some of the shock off the hinge bar when travelling. Maybe some kind of rubber mounting in place of the bottom locking handles to take the weight. I am convinced the one piece window is badly designed and puts too much stress on the hinge especially when it is fully open.

 

[Bluetonic]

when my old Bailey was repaired for a similar issue the area that the hinge was attached to was reinforced with a metal plate. The AWS tech that did the repair (unfortunately closed the business) had done dozens of Baileys with the same issue so know his stuff.

 

[Sam Vimes]

My Elddis 304 had the same problem from new...damp above front window. Dealer said it was fairly common on Elddis caravans.

It was repaired under warranty but I don't know what they did to fix it However after 3 years it's never had a damp problem.🤞🤞🤞

 

[Dustydog]

Interesting comments . Well done going the works. I suspect the leak came via the top rail which was originally inadequately fitted , sealed and screwed. Whilst it is one large window and not three , shouldn’t make any difference to the way the top rail is sealed.
My Wyoming had a top rail failure a few years ago. Solution like the OP full drying out .plenty of cleaning , Soudal, extra ss screws , no more leaks.
Sealing the whole window is not a good idea imo. The window sits within the thick black rubber seal . I agree with Buckman a solid mount may damage the window.

Nevertheless an excellent job 👏👏

 

[LateGuitarist]

My Elddis 304 had the same problem from new...damp above front window. Dealer said it was fairly common on Elddis caravans.

It was repaired under warranty but I don't know what they did to fix it However after 3 years it's never had a damp problem.🤞🤞🤞

Lol just rolls off the Tongue eh? "My Elddis had the same problem from new".
Would this be tolerated with anything else? Dear me! Anyway glad it's still dry......

 

[LateGuitarist]

Interesting comments . Well done going the works. I suspect the leak came via the top rail which was originally inadequately fitted , sealed and screwed. Whilst it is one large window and not three , shouldn’t make any difference to the way the top rail is sealed.
My Wyoming had a top rail failure a few years ago. Solution like the OP full drying out .plenty of cleaning , Soudal, extra ss screws , no more leaks.
Sealing the whole window is not a good idea imo. The window sits within the thick black rubber seal . I agree with Buckman a solid mount may damage the window.

Nevertheless an excellent job 👏👏

Thanks. Yes convinced leak was from top rail due to poor workmanship and fitting combined with a suspect design.

 

[GUMPY]

My Elddiss had a front window leak, fixed under dealer warranty, they removed the whole lot including the rail and refitted it with new sealant and rubbers. Luckily I noticed it early and got it fixed within a couple of weeks.
What was said is that when fitting the windows that they don't leave the catalyst/cleaner on for long enough before putting the sealant on and fitting the windows. This leads to the breakdown of the seal after a couple of years and then leaks.
The Elddiss next door to mine in storage is one year newer than mine and one year after mine leaked so has his.

 

[LateGuitarist]

My Elddiss had a front window leak, fixed under dealer warranty, they removed the whole lot including the rail and refitted it with new sealant and rubbers. Luckily I noticed it early and got it fixed within a couple of weeks.
What was said is that when fitting the windows that they don't leave the catalyst/cleaner on for long enough before putting the sealant on and fitting the windows. This leads to the breakdown of the seal after a couple of years and then leaks.
The Elddiss next door to mine in storage is one year newer than mine and one year after mine leaked so has his.

I think the problem is a basic poor design compounded by numpty factory assemblers no doubt on piece-rates to boot.
If the van is stored slightly nose down a lot of the rainfall from the roof will flow down over the front panel right onto the front window hinge, it should have a gutter to collect this and deflect it away from the window in my opinion. I also think the one piece front window, although great from an internal visibility angle, is flawed if it is designed to open. I am going to fit a section above mine to relieve the water, and I might even fit some form of channel on the roof (adhesive only obviously) just rearward of the join between roof and front panel to reduce water from running down the front.

 

[LateGuitarist]

Another problem is the stays. Why do they act on the very top of the window, such that when it is propped open there is considerable force acting on the hinge? It should be at the bottom on such a large and heavy window.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Lol just rolls off the Tongue eh? "My Elddis had the same problem from new".
Would this be tolerated with anything else? Dear me! Anyway glad it's still dry......

When I contacted Elddis to state my disappointment at such an early failure, the reply was pretty much...

'Well we've given you a 10 year warranty..'

No concept of getting it right first time.

 

[Buckman]

When I contacted Elddis to state my disappointment at such an early failure, the reply was pretty much...

'Well we've given you a 10 year warranty..'

No concept of getting it right first time.

As a member and moderator on this forum I am surprised that you even bothered contacting Elddis?

 

[otherclive]

When I contacted Elddis to state my disappointment at such an early failure, the reply was pretty much...

'Well we've given you a 10 year warranty..'

No concept of getting it right first time.

Even more disappointing is that it’s a well known shortcoming in that model of caravan. If it can be rectified after purchase then 110 per cent it could be rectified during production. It speaks volumes for their approach to quality.

 

[Buckman]

Even more disappointing is that it’s a well known shortcoming in that model of caravan. If it can be rectified after purchase then 110 per cent it could be rectified during production. It speaks volumes for their approach to quality.

I think that with ALL caravan manufacturers it is a case of churning the caravans out as fast as possible as they know the gullible public will continue to buy poor quality goods.

Once it is off their premises it is then the responsibility of the dealer to resolve issues. They also hope that people will not want to hassle the nice dealer and try and do many repairs themselves.

The other issue is that they know everyone is excited about a new purchase and do not check the finer things and in the majority of cases the caravan will only be used a couple of months after purchase and then only about once or twice a year.

 

[LateGuitarist]

Even more disappointing is that it’s a well known shortcoming in that model of caravan. If it can be rectified after purchase then 110 per cent it could be rectified during production. It speaks volumes for their approach to quality.

It wouldn't be quite so bad if, when they let the customers conduct the field trials, they didn't argue the toss when it needs to be put right. How can they give a 10 year water ingress warranty for only certain areas of the Van?? Shows what faith they have in their product. Personally I will never buy another new Van again, I'll buy one that has been through the first two years test period and come out ok, I am now convinced mine was leaking from new.

 

[Buckman]

It wouldn't be quite so bad if, when they let the customers conduct the field trials, they didn't argue the toss when it needs to be put right. How can they give a 10 year water ingress warranty for only certain areas of the Van?? Shows what faith they have in their product. Personally I will never buy another new Van again, I'll buy one that has been through the first two years test period and come out ok, I am now convinced mine was leaking from new.

If you read the small print carefully the 10 year water ingress only applies to permanently sealed joints and the chances of any of them leaking are extremely remote or nearly impossible. Play on words and advertising standards are quite happy with it although it is very misleading.

 

[LateGuitarist]

If you read the small print carefully the 10 year water ingress only applies to permanently sealed joints and the chances of any of them leaking are extremely remote or nearly impossible. Play on words and advertising standards are quite happy with it although it is very misleading.

Yes but the fact is the Van, as a complete entity, does not have a 10 year water ingress warranty, so I am astounded frankly that they are allowed to get away with it. The one I bought is actually worse than one I bought 30 years ago!

 

[Sam Vimes]

As a member and moderator on this forum I am surprised that you even bothered contacting Elddis?

I mainly contacted them because of the delay in getting the parts for the warranty repair. They never quibbled about the work but dealers have to get the standard parts directly from the manufacturer and not Elddis. To be fair there was a pandemic taking place but I decided to nag Elddis as they were still shipping vans and obviously had the parts - why couldn't they send some to the dealer? Well there's more money to be made shipping vans than parts.

It's not just Elddis. When we bought our Motorhome from new I had a snagging list that took both sides of an A4 sheet. A lot of nagging to get it fixed at home and not miles away at a dealer. They did cave in and sent a technician. Problems ranged from bad design to poor workmanship. Same problems are still appearing across a range of makes. I actually got an invite to the factory and was a little surpised that I wasn't alone. I asked if they actually tested the new designs before release on the unsuspecting public and apparently some of the team do get to use them. But if you're on the inside you know what to watch out for and so don't stress the design or build.

I did get my motorhome fixed and also got a Swift Umbrella which is still in use but not damp proof.