WATER INGRESS IN 12 MONTH OLD CARAVAN

[Dustydog]

JTQ's point about an awning is very interesting.

Our izzy needs the use of the "Hercules" pole tensioner to get everything tight. The stress and strain on the awning rail screws must be considerable!

QA and QC improvement has been asked for numerous times over the years yet PCv always avoid any comment that may upset the manufacturer.

Last year Swift had an "inexperienced " employee who couldn't drill holes in the floor without splintering the plywood. This only came to light following complaints on Swift Talk.
Similar simple issues have arisen with other makers.

I believe piecework methodology is fundementally flawed. A quality task force who take pride in their work must be better for all.
Ali tech and Solid will hopefully go someway to stopping leakers but then ant idiot can play with meccano.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Thank you for all the replies
The problem is the sealing of the bottom awning rails as shown on the video and the treatment seems to have been fresh sealant at the point where the man in the video was inserting cardboard strips
The fix seems to be working as the 60% worst reading was down to 18% when we collected the van on Wednesday and the van is now back at the dealer for further drying out

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ray,

I have already given my primary reason as to why I cannot accept your suggestion that manufacturers could not fund the development of new construction systems. These companies have had plenty of time and cash to fund quite significant development programmes.

Bailey who are a comparative small company have managed it, and now Elddis are also trying so there is money now for development even now whilst in a general recession. So why in the past when there was far more resource available didn't they do it then?

To be fair new techniques and materials have come onto the market which opens new possibilities which weren't around 10 years ago, but I come back to the point that the traditional systems have been able to produce dry caravans for the previous 30 years. So why didn't the manufactures work to improve the reliability of the manufacturing processes then?

Its a bit of an rhetorical question, because I doubt that any manufacture will be prepared to volunteer their position in this forum.

 

[RogerL]

I'm not sure the construction method matters - it's attention to detail that was missing on the classic construction, at least from volume manufacturers, and attention to detail that's missing on Bailey's Alu-tec - the Elddis SoLiD construction is too new to judge, at least it's new on caravans but not new really.
Instead of investing what must be large amounts of money in new construction processes I'd rather see caravan manufacturers investing money in staff training and quality control. Some of them might also START investing in customer services - they do seem to be generally lacking.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Just to repeat my original posting
I was hoping to hear from someone who had had the same problem as my caravan and if they had found that the drying out through the plastic wallboard coating was successful
If anyone else has this problem and it seems that some people do have maybe they could at some future date report back on actual experiences(ie has it worked) as they could be of help to someone else in the same boat
I will post again over the next weeks to say how my job has turned out in the hope that it may be of use

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello John,
I appologiese a bit for diverting the thrust of your thread, and I'm sorry I have no anwer to your specific question. Perhaps some one will.

Your experience though serves to rehighlight a major issue some caravanners have with their caravans, Frankly a fault that should not ever happen.
In answer to Rogers point,

I agree, its down to quality control, or better - Quality Assurance.
In my first reply I suggested that managing the production process to prevent erroneous assembly is actually a desirable design output, so perhaps the newer systems are aimed at trying to achiev this. Some isolated reports suggest that Baileys system still has some issues in this area. So the jury is still out.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Hello John,
I appologiese a bit for diverting the thrust of your thread, and I'm sorry I have no anwer to your specific question. Perhaps some one will.

Your experience though serves to rehighlight a major issue some caravanners have with their caravans, Frankly a fault that should not ever happen.
In answer to Rogers point,

I agree, its down to quality control, or better - Quality Assurance.
In my first reply I suggested that managing the production process to prevent erroneous assembly is actually a desirable design output, so perhaps the newer systems are aimed at trying to achiev this. Some isolated reports suggest that Baileys system still has some issues in this area. So the jury is still out.

Hi John
No apology needed you were asked for an opinion and the ensuing debate was interesting but I just want to hear as well from anyone who has had the drying out done through the plastic and if it worked
The sealing of the top of the lower awning rail may not be getting to the root of the problem as you intimated in your appraisal of the video when the cardboard was inserted
I asked at the dealer if the ingress was via the screws holding the rail on but the reply seemed to suggest that it may be via the floor to side seal but was unsure
It seems to stretch credibility of design if the floor to side seal depends solely on a ribbon of mastic on the outside upper join of the awning rail if in fact the ingress is not via the screws
I have now been told that there is seam under the awning rail that is being resealed and then the awning rail is replaced over the top also with sealant

 

[billy2]

It is some months now since i had a damp problem on my Vanmaster,its a 1998 so not under the lifetime water ingress warrenty.I tried dryin g it out through the plastic coated board to no effect,eventually after weeks stripped the board away from the wall to reveal the wooden frame,the wood was soaking but luckally no rot,bought a dehumidifier and by blocking the vents in the bathroom and sealing the door did manage after 2 weeks to get it bone dry.Van has now been fully resealed and new board fitted.Although kept under cover and not used since reseal have reservations that van wont leak again and only time will tell.Have since read that makeing pin pricks in the plastic wall cover will help with drying out and a wood glue spread on after dry will seal them up again.The floor in the bathroom is still bare ply wood as took all floor covering up,an interesting thing is on a wet day i can read 40% to 60% moisture 3to4 dry days later it only registers 10% or less.What i am saying damp testing a caravan can incure different reading dependant on the weather,also keep in mind mine is kept under cover.

 

[disney]

hi we have got a 2012 bailey verona went in for its frist service to be told that our van as got a water leak coming the front wet lockers watting for them to come back to us after speking to bailey why on the alu-tech body sheel. they say engineered to ensure it remains weathproof and provide you have long term peace of mind our van os just one year old last septermer. we are watting rep from our dealer on this.

 

[RogerL]

Bailey ..... say engineered to ensure it remains weatherproof

How on earth has anyone at Bailey got the bottle to say that ?

 

[Dustydog]

Bailey ..... say engineered to ensure it remains weatherproof

How on earth has anyone at Bailey got the bottle to say that ?

Poetic something ?""??????????

 

[ProfJohnL]

I haven't followed Bailey's published information that closely, but if they have made any sort of official publication with the phrase
"engineered to ensure it remains weatherproof" then they may have unwittingly laid themselves open to all sorts longterm problems, assuming the statement is related to the construction of their caravans.

Without wishing to offend anyone, this is akin the statement White Star made about the unsinkability of the Titanic!

The major difference is that the Titanic was scuppered by an Iceburg which is not an exceptional shipping hazard, and Baileys may be scuppered by rain - which is an expected UK/Europe hazard.

 

[Raywood]

Bailey ..... say engineered to ensure it remains weatherproof

How on earth has anyone at Bailey got the bottle to say that ?

Looks like a quote from the Bailey joke book.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Just to complete the circle the van is now back home
They tell me that all readings are now OK and that the lower awning rails along the sides have been removed and resealed under and across the top and drying out is complete
Its not possible to check where the shower compartment is
Caravan "design"

 

[EmmaM]

I think the point is we all heavily invest in an activity we all enjoy.

To have damp issues on new caravans in unacceptable.

I have an issue on a 7month old Elddis. I am prepared to take civil action and gamble
what I would lose selling the unit.

Modern techniques and materials should eliminate this fundamental issue. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of pounds spent developing modern caravans and they still can't get it right.

I hope those with issues had them resolved.

 

[Michael_374247611]

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[Parksy]

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[Raywood]

I think more people need to follow Emma's line and sue. The guarantee will exclude the manufacturer from liability but you can sue the dealer and the HP company if there is one and they will then bring in the manufacturer making costs a major problem for them. The only way to get the problem sorted is to make prevention less expensive than cure for the manufacturers.
Claim for the inconveniance as this should succeed even if the balance of your claim fails.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I totaly agree with Raywood on this one.
Dealers and manufacturers have got to understand that the customer must not be inconvenienced by a product that fails to deliver what it should. For too long the public have just rolled over and accepted the shoddy workmanship from the caravan manufactuers, unproved designs, failure to make improvments when faults consitently arise (i.e. water ingress etc).
As consumers we have rights, and the power of the Sale of Goods Act to back them up. lets start using them. It will make dealers more sensitive and proactive, which will inturn bring increased expectations onto the manufacturers to sort out their quality and designs.

 

[Raywood]

It doeslook to me as if the problem was tackled concienciously and I tend to agree that I would probably take the repair rather than sell it and risk the problem turning up again with the replacement.

 

[stevew1]

Same here just had my swift challenger sport544 1st service and water ingress was noted in front window area 50% and rear bathroom 30%. Then to top it off I was washing the van when I noticed two huge splits on the roof and side panel join towards the end of the van. Apparently these are stress cracks /splits . I know the van has a 6 year body shell waranty but it s the inconvience of having to take the van back and for to the repair shop. I only bought a swift caravan because I thought they where a good quality product but obviously not !

 

[Dustydog]

Same here just had my swift challenger sport544 1st service and water ingress was noted in front window area 50% and rear bathroom 30%. Then to top it off I was washing the van when I noticed two huge splits on the roof and side panel join towards the end of the van. Apparently these are stress cracks /splits . I know the van has a 6 year body shell waranty but it s the inconvience of having to take the van back and for to the repair shop. I only bought a swift caravan because I thought they where a good quality product but obviously not !

Sorry to hear of these serious problems Steve.
You must be gutted.

Maybe this thread will be of interest to you.

http://www.practicalcaravan.com/forum/general/soga-rules-supreme

It does seem your Swift was flawed at the point of sale and contatined a major inherent defect or latent defect??

 

[otherclive]

I had stress splits in the front and rear panels of the Bailey S5 but they were picked up early without any water damage or marks being incurred. The dealer made a temporary seal and then carried out the work when the new front and rear panels were available. I must say the dealers workmanship was excellent and the seal lengths look far more professional than were Baileys original seals. The panels had failed within a year of each other early in the van's life and so far she's been watertight with very low readings for the annual damp test.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I was very sceptical that a satisfactory repair or cure would be carried out but having faith in my dealer I went with it
What was the worst part is now reading 8% and considering the snow and rain etc recently that is amazing so the pride and joy will be staying