What towing combination can I drive on B license?

[WoodlandsCamper]

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories
Category B+E

You can drive a vehicle with a MAM of 3,500kg with a trailer.

The size of the trailer depends on when you passed your test. If you passed your test:

before 19 January 2013 you can tow any size trailer
on or after 19 January 2013 you can tow a trailer with a MAM of up to 3,500kg

That's exactly what I said earlier in the thread, keep up.

 

[LWCARAB]

Well I'm glad it wasn't just me who was confused by it all ;-)

I went to see the Hobby's today as typically my wife like the biggest one (2200kg mam) which I can't even find an affordable car to tow it. On the way back we dropped into a normal dealer and looked at a Swift Challenger 590, wasn't that impressed after the hobby but I could tow it with the car options I'm looking with my current B license... If only the beds would take an adult.

There was me thinking this would be easy!!!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Oh dear

This is becoming quite complicated and the biggest complication is the Govt Web site As I alluded to an earlier version of the web site inaccurately set out the law for Cat B towing. Instead of referring to the combined MAM it only stated the weight of the combination, which lead some caravanners to believe they could drive a car and trailer whose total measured weight was less than 3500kg even if the the combined MAM was over 3500kg. The underlying Act of Parliament very clearly stated the "combined MAM" I note now that this error was not corrected in the comparison of old and new licences

https://www.gov.uk/old-driving-licence-categories
This is an example of how this web site cannot be trusted with detailed matters such as weight limits on driving licence categories.

To complicate matters further, due to pressure from the EU, the Govt has changed the definitions of some categories over time, and again the web site cannot be trusted to accurately reflect the underlying Act of Parliament. It is quite difficult to find the actual relevant acts, and I have lost the link I used the last time I researched the documents. But what is important here is that through the application o f" grandfather rights" new changes to category definitions are not retrospective, and thus you cannot adopt the new definitions for an older license.

Richard (EH25ARH) tells us he obtained his license in 2005, and only has Cat B. At the time the best definition I can find states:

B Vehicles up to 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) and up to 8 passenger seats with trailer up to 750kg; trailers over 750kg if combined weight of vehicle and trailer isn’t over 3,500kg and the fully-loaded trailer doesn’t weigh more than the unladen vehicle

B+E Category B vehicles with trailer when combined weight of vehicle and trailer is over 3,500kg (PJL's note this should be MAM not Weight)

When reading such documents you have to take into account what said very carefully. Specifically the B+E part simply refers to "when combined MAM of vehicle and trailer is over 3,500kg" It doesn't state that the "and the fully-loaded trailer doesn’t weigh more than the unladen vehicle" is cancelled, and thus you must assume that still applies.

 

[LWCARAB]

I thought I'd got it last night but then I realised in the night that I think I got it wrong again. I said yesterday that we'd looked at the Swift Challenger 590 (MTPLM: 1565kg) and that even though we weren't keen it could be towed by our preferred car option of the Seat Alhambra (Kerb weight: 1849kg) with my current license as total is only 3414kg, perfect! But then I realised that it's the MAM of the car (2520kg) and the caravan (1565kg) which takes it up to 4085kg so I still need to get the B+E license. Am I right?

Sorry about all these, I thought I had a decent brain in my head but this is bloody confusing! I'm tempting to go the police station and ask but I have a feeling they won't have a clue either!

 

[ProfJohnL]

I thought I'd got it last night but then I realised in the night that I think I got it wrong again. I said yesterday that we'd looked at the Swift Challenger 590 (MTPLM: 1565kg) and that even though we weren't keen it could be towed by our preferred car option of the Seat Alhambra (Kerb weight: 1849kg) with my current license as total is only 3414kg, perfect! But then I realised that it's the MAM of the car (2520kg) and the caravan (1565kg) which takes it up to 4085kg so I still need to get the B+E license. Am I right?

Sorry about all these, I thought I had a decent brain in my head but this is bloody confusing! I'm tempting to go the police station and ask but I have a feeling they won't have a clue either!

Hello Richard,
I'm sorry but you are correct. If the combined MAM is 4085 then that exceeds your 3500 cat B entitlement.

I am inclined towards the opinion that you are going to find it quite difficult to find a suitable combination, not only because of your combined MAM limit, but also because of the quirk of the catB licences issued between 1997 & 2013 where the MTPLM of the trailer must not exceed the ULW of the tow vehicle.

Your best, if not only course of action is to take the +E test.

 

[LWCARAB]

Yeah I'm just going to go an take the B+E test, found a couple of places yesterday. Also need to find a car, as I said the Hobby still wins but with a MAM of 1900kg, I need to find a car, the only option I can really find without going up to Land Rover, Audi Q7 territory which I cannot afford is the new Kia Sorento, anyone have any other suggestions?

I'm also looking at the option of buying the Hobby straight from Germany, from what I've read it doesn't seem to be too much of a problem and the Caravan Club are happy to insure it.

 

[Hutch]

Hi Richard, (LWCARAB) you could possibly also kook at an Auto SantaFe, max tow 2000kg or manual 2500kg. Or a VW Tureg. Not sure towing capacity, but its high.
Hutch (EH52ARH )

 

[Martin24]

You could try a transit

 

[LWCARAB]

Missed out a vital bit of information, it needs to have 7 seats. Also it wouldn't replace the current main family car (Kuga) and I like my creature comforts so I don't want a van ;-)

 

[Martin24]

Check that the sites you may want to visit will accept you with a Hobby. There still may be plenty out there that won't accept them.

We've had a couple of ssang yong rextons. Very affordable way forward.

 

[Reevco]

You could try a transit

I tow a twin axle Coachman with a 9 seat Ford Transit MPV (Tourneo Trend) only downside I have found is it can get STUCK if the field gets wet and soft. But we have a quad mover on the caravan and this has got us out of trouble more than once.... once the caravan is back on firm ground can then hitch up and drive on, but thats the only down side to a Transit.
Would love to have a Range Rover but can't afford one, and need at least 8 seats.

We got well stuck at Stowford last year even the mover was useless, so had to get the Stowford staff to tow me off with their Disco. More the fact I didn't want to chew the grass up any more than I had done already.

Even towing with a van, the van to caravan weight match is at around 95% when loaded depending on how I load the caravan not recommended for a driver new to towing.

I'm soon to be looking for a new tow car/van and the newer shape transit have a lower tow train limits, haven't looked lately but where told Fords where going to upgrading the tow limits, we where looking for an MPV that could pull an Twin wheeled Eternity but they went bust before we placed our order. And now have the lighter Coachman 640/6 but still a heavy caravan. (Try pushing/pulling it on your own.)

Go get the extension to your licence you will never look back B)

You did the right thing to ask here first anyone new to towing it's just a mind-blowing minefield.
MAM
MTPLM
TRAIN WEIGHT
MRO
KERB WEIGHT

Your caravan dealer will have someone thats trained to help you find your way around this minefield, but they will forget about the stuff you need to load up with and will just quote figures they have.
Car main dealers are just useless so no point asking there. I found they have never heard of max train weight.

If buying new, it maybe worth paying a few pounds more and get your dealer to ask the manufacturer to upgrade the weight plate of your caravan. They can and will do this but you have to ask for it, I did and don't regret it, it surprising how little stuff you can put in a caravan before you are over the weight limits. But if you do this then the car will have to match the upgraded amounts.

 

[Reevco]

Missed out a vital bit of information, it needs to have 7 seats. Also it wouldn't replace the current main family car (Kuga) and I like my creature comforts so I don't want a van ;-)

Don't rule out the Transit, the Tourneo Trend or Limited comes fully loaded, full summer and winter packs nice comfy seats heated seats, heated screen /mirrors dam good mirrors. (Still need towing mirrors £60 fine and 3 point per mirror if not fitted) Just don't buy the 9 seater one as we did very few people will insure it and the cost are though the roof, standard car insurance stops at 8 seats, get 9 seats you then get hit with taxi rates even if using as family social and domestic and drive to and from work. Oh make sure the insurance comp know you have a tow bar fitted and you tow a caravan a lot are okay if told upfront, it's only if you don't and something should happen they may question it.....

 

[Raywood]

If buying in Germany I would make sure the dealer has someone with a good command of English unless you speak German. Modern caravans are complex and you need to understand the handover information.
The German one may not have a battery box so I would make sure you get one fitted if possible and you will probably get only get a hob for cooking, no grill or oven. If you want them these may be extras the dealer can fit but if not it would have to be done back home.
I would also see if they can get you a handbook in English, although if they follow the system here, you will get the instructions for the fittings supplied by the individual manufacturers which are often multilingual.
Basically you need to check the German spec and make sure it is suitable and get anything missing fitted.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If you buy from Germany, the UK Consumer Rights Act will not apply. You would have to use the German equivalent if they have one.
You will have no UK point of contact if anything goes wrong with the caravan,

Richard, I'm sorry but you really need to stop, and take a few breaths, calm down and start thinking with you're head rather than your heart.