do you have a smaller 4x4,rav4,tucson,crv?thinking of changing my scenic,as its been a pig since we got it.living in middle of nowhere,we thought we would get a smaller 4x4,not as bothered about fuel,more reliability,the oh likes x trails,but heard a few things about them,looking at about 2003-2005,what do you reccommend?????thanks for your help,hopefully,adrian
whats the best smaller 4x4,reliability wise
- Thread starter adrian_5071472
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Subaru Forester and Subaru Outback take some beating for reliability.
Nissan seemed to get Renault reliability rather than vice-versa.
Honda reliability is varaiable, some models are poor.
Nissan seemed to get Renault reliability rather than vice-versa.
Honda reliability is varaiable, some models are poor.
Subarus are generally acknowledged to be both well engineered, and reliable.
I'd be interested to know which Honda models have poor reliability - I know someone who had a troublesome Legend, but they are a minority pastime. Hondas are generally reliable; I have heard of a small number of problems with high mileage diesel Accords (not CR-Vs, oddly) but by no means the epidemic issues that affected, say, X-Trails.
Not statistically significant of course, but I have had both a 2003MY petrol auto CR-V and a 2006MY diesel. Both have been reliable - the first needed a clock ring in the steering wheel hub when the airbag light came on (done under warranty) and the diesel developed the well known rear diff rumble from the clutch pack - easily sorted again under warranty.
I still have the diesel, almost 3 years old and 50,000 miles - I intend to keep it for a while, given that it's not worth much in the current market and it's running well enough. Solo mpg is 40+ (I can consistently get 44 if I pay attention) and up to 30 towing.
Just watch out for towing limits and particularly noseweights. Until the 2005MY facelift, the CR-V had a max noseweight of 60kg. Facelift cars have 100kg nosweight. The max tow for the auto is 1200kg, diesel 1500kg.
I'd be interested to know which Honda models have poor reliability - I know someone who had a troublesome Legend, but they are a minority pastime. Hondas are generally reliable; I have heard of a small number of problems with high mileage diesel Accords (not CR-Vs, oddly) but by no means the epidemic issues that affected, say, X-Trails.
Not statistically significant of course, but I have had both a 2003MY petrol auto CR-V and a 2006MY diesel. Both have been reliable - the first needed a clock ring in the steering wheel hub when the airbag light came on (done under warranty) and the diesel developed the well known rear diff rumble from the clutch pack - easily sorted again under warranty.
I still have the diesel, almost 3 years old and 50,000 miles - I intend to keep it for a while, given that it's not worth much in the current market and it's running well enough. Solo mpg is 40+ (I can consistently get 44 if I pay attention) and up to 30 towing.
Just watch out for towing limits and particularly noseweights. Until the 2005MY facelift, the CR-V had a max noseweight of 60kg. Facelift cars have 100kg nosweight. The max tow for the auto is 1200kg, diesel 1500kg.
Alan - if you check out the Warranty Direct reliability statistics you'll find that Honda does exceedingly well overall but the Civic and some of it's derivatives do badly, below average. It may be to do with which factory a particular model is built in.
It has always been dangerous looking at a brand's overall reliability - it's always much better to look at individual models - some good brands have a bad model and some poor brands have a good one.
It has always been dangerous looking at a brand's overall reliability - it's always much better to look at individual models - some good brands have a bad model and some poor brands have a good one.
Roger, is one of us misreading the index? "All Civic" is given by WD as 29, against an average index for all cars of 112, so the average car is nearly 4 times as unreliable as the Civic (lower is better if I understand it correctly, so in fact it appears to be an *un*reliability index).
The "all CR-V" index is 18, The "all Forester" index is 49, though the relatively higher index is more driven by cost per repair than by frequency of breakdown.
http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/car_search.html?apc=3128339010848601
I doubt that WD's Subaru figure is a particularly accurate guide to future reliability, I couldn't find the numbers on risk but they are probably small.
Having had some experience with warranty schemes, it's fair to say that a manufacturer's products can vary quite a lot by model. The trouble is, all the meaningful available stats refer to cars produced several years ago. There are distinct manufacturer trends, and these are probably the best guide when buying a new car, unless there is a known similarity to older models for which experience is available.
The most numerous and least skewed statistics are unfortunately the in-warranty experience which the manufacturers do not make available. WD seems to be getting better as their experience has built up - when they first introduced the index it was all over the place.
I hold no brief for Honda by the way - I've been contemplating a Subaru diesel since they came out a few months ago!
The "all CR-V" index is 18, The "all Forester" index is 49, though the relatively higher index is more driven by cost per repair than by frequency of breakdown.
http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/car_search.html?apc=3128339010848601
I doubt that WD's Subaru figure is a particularly accurate guide to future reliability, I couldn't find the numbers on risk but they are probably small.
Having had some experience with warranty schemes, it's fair to say that a manufacturer's products can vary quite a lot by model. The trouble is, all the meaningful available stats refer to cars produced several years ago. There are distinct manufacturer trends, and these are probably the best guide when buying a new car, unless there is a known similarity to older models for which experience is available.
The most numerous and least skewed statistics are unfortunately the in-warranty experience which the manufacturers do not make available. WD seems to be getting better as their experience has built up - when they first introduced the index it was all over the place.
I hold no brief for Honda by the way - I've been contemplating a Subaru diesel since they came out a few months ago!
Hi check out suzuki grand vitara 2L td. First class tow car & reasonable to run . Now on my second one no problems in 5years running . good luck with your search.
Maybe I read it wrong - if I can figure out what I read !! It had a list of models ranked in order of reliability with the Civic well in the bottom half - I can't find it on WD now so perhaps I mis-read it, I have been taking some funny tablets lately.
If PC forum had an edit facility I'd alter that part of my post.
If PC forum had an edit facility I'd alter that part of my post.
Maybe this Roger? List of the top 10 cars based on breakdown frequency only (not cost) which puts puts the Civic in the bottom half of the top ten - not too shabby.
http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/tophundred.html?apc=3128339010848601
I admit I had to re-read several times myself.
http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/tophundred.html?apc=3128339010848601
I admit I had to re-read several times myself.
I recently bought a new Santa Fe, and am really pleased. I bought it as a friend has an 04 plate Santa, now on around 60k miles, and hasn't put a spanner to it.
I don't think that you will go wrong with an earlier model, if you can pick up a 2005 model it will still have another year or so warranty. OK, it's not a true 4x4, i.e. low range gearbox, etc, but how often do you need that. PS buy yourself a manual and save at least 3 mpg!!
I don't think that you will go wrong with an earlier model, if you can pick up a 2005 model it will still have another year or so warranty. OK, it's not a true 4x4, i.e. low range gearbox, etc, but how often do you need that. PS buy yourself a manual and save at least 3 mpg!!
Sorry about the late reply but with all this nice weather bin vanning.
For my money on a small 4x4 it would have to be Kia or Hi and die. With a transferable warranty of up to 7 years how can you loose?!
The Tuscon and Sportage are also quite highly regarded by tuggers by many on this forum.
I also think that in spite of any reliability surveys suggesting otherwise, manufacturerers are going to go the extra mile in quality terms if they are to survive in business offering such terms.
The only downside would be if you live a great distance from a dealer.
For my money on a small 4x4 it would have to be Kia or Hi and die. With a transferable warranty of up to 7 years how can you loose?!
The Tuscon and Sportage are also quite highly regarded by tuggers by many on this forum.
I also think that in spite of any reliability surveys suggesting otherwise, manufacturerers are going to go the extra mile in quality terms if they are to survive in business offering such terms.
The only downside would be if you live a great distance from a dealer.
hiya i have a new santa fe and my in laws have the older santa fe. they have 5 year warrenty on them and they are really good on fuel.i wouldnt change it.
i tow a new wyoming with motor mover on at about 90%.
jo-anne
i tow a new wyoming with motor mover on at about 90%.
jo-anne
stay away from nissan quashqai. my sister has got one lots of problems with miss firing and every 4000 miles it has go in and have something done that costs them money. the missfire on them is an inherant fault and she is in the process of rejecting hers.
jo-anne
jo-anne
3 year warranty?stay away from nissan quashqai. my sister has got one lots of problems with miss firing and every 4000 miles it has go in and have something done that costs them money. the missfire on them is an inherant fault and she is in the process of rejecting hers.
jo-anne
I'm surprised, given the question, that no one has suggested a Toyota Rav4.
Good customer satisfaction, well up the tables for reliability and as small 4x4s go a very good drive solo or towing.
Regards
Good customer satisfaction, well up the tables for reliability and as small 4x4s go a very good drive solo or towing.
Regards
I'd recommend the RAv4 apart from the fact that he's looking at 03-05. The later 4.3 models (06 onwards) are great, I've got one, it tows a 1500kg van no problems and has no reliability issues. But some of the earlier 4.2 models can be prone to dual mass flywheel failure resulting in a very expensive repair bill. Loads were fixed under warranty but they're out of warranty now and without the uprated DMF already fitted I'd be loathe to tow with one as you would soon find out if it was going to fail.
We have a Kia Sportage and we find it a very good tow car.We tow a Bailey Bourdeux caravan .It is the 2wd 2lt crdi
Ever Honda I have owned over the years have been totally fault free and never been in for warranty issues.
Civic, Jazz x 2 and now the new CRV, NO Problems and tows my Coachman 1300kg great. As an Engineer I can say anything with the Honda badge from Lawn movers to 4X4S they are the best you will get for your money.
Forget Nissan they use Renault engines, the new Boxer Suburu seems good but too new to sat yet.
Regards
Alan
Vehicle Mechanical Engineer
Civic, Jazz x 2 and now the new CRV, NO Problems and tows my Coachman 1300kg great. As an Engineer I can say anything with the Honda badge from Lawn movers to 4X4S they are the best you will get for your money.
Forget Nissan they use Renault engines, the new Boxer Suburu seems good but too new to sat yet.
Regards
Alan
Vehicle Mechanical Engineer
'05 models should certainly have had the revised dmf fitted. I would recommend a 05 or 55 plate XTR 2.0 D4D as these have good equipment levels for the price including tinted glass, traction & stability control. Mine tows our 1450kg Quasar confidently.I'd recommend the RAv4 apart from the fact that he's looking at 03-05. The later 4.3 models (06 onwards) are great, I've got one, it tows a 1500kg van no problems and has no reliability issues. But some of the earlier 4.2 models can be prone to dual mass flywheel failure resulting in a very expensive repair bill. Loads were fixed under warranty but they're out of warranty now and without the uprated DMF already fitted I'd be loathe to tow with one as you would soon find out if it was going to fail.
Hi Alan, I'm presently considering the CR-V, but after reading the reviews here;
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-readers.aspx?RT=898
I'm somewhat hesitant. The main gripes appear to be pulling to the left, notchy gearbox, noisey clutch pedal, and clutch judder. I don't know if you've noticed any of these problems, but I'd be interested to hear if you have.
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-readers.aspx?RT=898
I'm somewhat hesitant. The main gripes appear to be pulling to the left, notchy gearbox, noisey clutch pedal, and clutch judder. I don't know if you've noticed any of these problems, but I'd be interested to hear if you have.
Hi There is a slight squeak from the clutch pedal mechamism like a lack of lub, nothing really. the gearbox is ok but not as light as a normal car, but changes very smooth with no notchyness and I no because I use to work on gearbox development.Hi Alan, I'm presently considering the CR-V, but after reading the reviews here;
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-readers.aspx?RT=898
I'm somewhat hesitant. The main gripes appear to be pulling to the left, notchy gearbox, noisey clutch pedal, and clutch judder. I don't know if you've noticed any of these problems, but I'd be interested to hear if you have.
But it drives great in all aspects with no steering issues.
Dont really no what they are talking about, you need a good test drive I think.
Regards
Alan
Hi Eddie, I am home from work now and have the time to reply properly.Hi Alan, I'm presently considering the CR-V, but after reading the reviews here;
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-readers.aspx?RT=898
I'm somewhat hesitant. The main gripes appear to be pulling to the left, notchy gearbox, noisey clutch pedal, and clutch judder. I don't know if you've noticed any of these problems, but I'd be interested to hear if you have.
The gearbox is not notchy, notcyness is when the synchros baulk out and cause a clash hence a noise, sometimes a double notch were you feel a heavy resistance in the stick as you engage and then a futher clash as the gear engages. The CRV has a very positive detent and biasing of the gear gates, this I think is due to the sometimes expected off road driving and the firm/positive detents are what help keep the gear engaged, with weak detents on any 4x4 you can witness gear drop out over rough terraine. I think Honda have over done this a bit I would have tuned the engagement/disengagement forces slightly lighter, you will probably find this same gearbox in the Civic with lighter tuning springs fitted in the gearbox. I use to travel all over Europe tuning truck gearbox springs for our customers so I do know a bit about the subject.
Noisey clutch pedal is a slight flexing at the pedal box I think and does sometimes produce a very slight squeak, a nothing really that I have become use too, but Honda should beef up the pedal box area I think and stop any sign of flexing.
Clutch judder simply not present on my vehicle 2.2 Diesel after 16000 miles. Clutch bite is quite low from the floor and maybe due to a heavy duty clutch, but very smooth and reletivly light.
By the way you may have seen high oil comsumption mentioned, this is common with most makes that use very low viscosity oil, 0/30w,I never had any issues or early top ups of oil between services, however I consider better protection towing etc with Millers fully synthetic 5/40w and have used it for many years with no issues.
I think if you want to find issue or nit-pick with any manufacturer you probably can, but Honda are really more reliable than most other makes if not all, and just get your self a good test drive in one.
If anyone say's try a LR Freelander, remember the old model was the worse vehicle in the uk for reliability, dont think they will have fixed all their issues first time with the new model, I did drive the new model and found it OK, but would be very worried it would soon start to go wrong.
Each to his own but in Honda I trust.
Best Regards
Alan
Hello Alan - Many thanks for your very informative reply. It's good to know that apart from a slight clutch pedal noise, you don't have any of the other symptoms that some "reviewers" have mentioned.
At the minute, I'm considering either an '07 CR-V or an '05 BMW 530D, but it's very unlikely that I'll be taking the plunge until early 2009, so you have definitely given me some food for thought, and I appreciate the time you have spent on your reply. Thanks again.
Eddie.
At the minute, I'm considering either an '07 CR-V or an '05 BMW 530D, but it's very unlikely that I'll be taking the plunge until early 2009, so you have definitely given me some food for thought, and I appreciate the time you have spent on your reply. Thanks again.
Eddie.
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