Wheel Clamp?

[Guest]

Yes that is a possibility but than again having tried to get a spare wheel that fits the right van that theory does not always work.

Removing one wheel and leaving the spare in the front locker or slung underneath is not to clever. How many wheels do they carry in their Transits? Twin axles are supposed to be a popular choice for the crims.

All the gadgets in the world will only deter a thief, with a variety of tools available what ever you fit will not stop a business minded thief and all though the Hublock has some good points it seems to rely on locking bolts that are still easily removed by anybody with tools made for the job available off the shelf.

Pictures of cutting torch attack are a bit pointless when you have locking bolts that can be easily removed. I'd like to think I'm wrong but I also beleive the website pictures of Stihl saw MAY be a little misleading as there are other cutting methods for hardened steels that do not involve heat that would damage the hubs.

 

[hublock]

Hello Rod,

Your right, thieves will bring their own wheels or steal them from another caravan, so removing wheels is not the answer.

Removing the wheels and preventing the thief from fitting their own wheels does work, and this is what the HUBLOCK does.

If they can't remove the HUBLOCK they will not steal the caravan.

In effect it is winter wheels but with a very effective security device included, and is accepted by insurance companies.

The first job is to prevent thieves burning it off, and this it does.

EURO/STEVE IN LEO/MONKEY all raise questions about the security bolts and believe they can remove them with mechanical tools (As used in garages).

The design of the HUBLOCK prevents these devices being used and I can assure you they are all included in the SOLD SECURE testing. The HUBLOCK was awarded the GOLD AWARD, the highest available.

The information is given on the website, but I ask EURO/STEVE IN LEO/MONKEY to call me on 01924 278338 so I can explain a few things they don't understand.

Dave & Bev, I can assure you the HUBLOCK is secure and I will challenge anyone to remove them in less than one hour using oxyacetylene, stihl saw, drills, freezing and chiselling.

Unfortunately there is no official testing organisation who can carry out testing to this level.

If anyone knows otherwise please let me know.

 

[hublock]

Yes that is a possibility but than again having tried to get a spare wheel that fits the right van that theory does not always work.

Removing one wheel and leaving the spare in the front locker or slung underneath is not to clever. How many wheels do they carry in their Transits? Twin axles are supposed to be a popular choice for the crims.

All the gadgets in the world will only deter a thief, with a variety of tools available what ever you fit will not stop a business minded thief and all though the Hublock has some good points it seems to rely on locking bolts that are still easily removed by anybody with tools made for the job available off the shelf.

Pictures of cutting torch attack are a bit pointless when you have locking bolts that can be easily removed. I'd like to think I'm wrong but I also beleive the website pictures of Stihl saw MAY be a little misleading as there are other cutting methods for hardened steels that do not involve heat that would damage the hubs.

Hello Euro,

Two wheel types fit the full range of caravans.

Remenber all wheel clamps can be cut off in 30 seconds with oxyacetylene, some are forced off with stilsons.

The thief will not spend two hours trying to remove a HUBLOCK if he can cut off a wheel clamp in 30 seconds.

Ask someone who's had their caravan stolen recently, there are between 4000 and 5000 every year. 80 to 100 every week.

Please call me on 01924 278338 and I will explain some details to you.

It is not wise to give this information on the forum.

 

[hublock]

Sorry to burst your safety bubble Dave and Bev but it took me less than five minutes to find the tool to remove the bolts used by the Hublock. One supplier sells the too for

 

[MONKEY1]

Kenneth,

What I can't see from the website is whether all the wheel nut holes have individual locks or if only one of the holes per wheel is locked. If all the bolts are of a locking type then apart from a key you'll multiply penetration time but at least 4x. This is a good feature. However if there's only one then I would have the locking bolt off in well less than two minutes.

It's not an idle boast but it's about being taught the technique by a tyre fitter.

Just to put this in perspective the locking wheel nut on my wife's old VW Sharan was stripped by an over enthusiastic fitter at one large chain with use of an air gun. With a puncture there was no choice but to take the wheel off and either order a new key which has to be checked VW HQ and takes up to 10 days or remove it. 1 minute later I have the bolt in my hand !!

If your think that VW use substandard locking wheel nuts then you be wrong they are as good a MCGard because they are made by their parent company in Canada !

 

[Guest]

Hi Kenneth, no doubt you are proud of your product and no doubt it passes the industy tests. Industry tests are not ingenious thieves though.

Your product is shown to use locking bolts that can easily be removed, if you can fit the correct key I'm assured that there are at least two off the shelf tools that will remove the bolts.

You talk of burning or cutting the Hublock off when you only need to remove the bolts. There are other ways of removing the bolts that are not mentioned in your list and with the stated torque settings you are either keeping other removal methods to yourself or you are working with limited knowlege.

My caravan is kept at home in France and we do not tend to have the scumbags encountered here in the UK and we have , your product looks good but a good thief will still bypass it. Nothing personal.

My son inlaws car has a top rated alarm as approved by Thatcham etc but his car was still robbed and he didn't even know.

So much for the Police, Thatcham and Gold Star ratings and he was lucky the thieves were not after the car.

 

[spj]

Hi all,

I am a mechanic by trade and have removed many types of locking wheelnuts, none of which are hard to get off. The simplest way is to find a 12 point socket slightly too small to go over the nut and hammer it on, this gives enough bite to remove any locking wheel bolt with ease.

Looking at the hublock I think it has 4 locking bolts, but [I may be wrong] the holes in which the locking bolts go through look like they are only just big enough to clear the locking bolts which would make my method of removal impossible. if this is correct then the only damage free way of removing them would be to use a mig welder to weld a nut that fits in the hole or larger if proud to the locking bolts and then remove. This would require a decent generator and a mig welder. Nothing is impossible to remove with the right equipment but as Kenneth has already said the thieves will always pick an easier target and making your caravan as difficult as possible to steal is the best you can do.

By the way, I assume Kenneth is the owner or works for Hublock, if so would you give a discount to forum members or to someone buying more than one? if so I have two friends who are interested, one with a 2006 Ace and one with a 2003 twin axle Lunar Delta, and I collect my 2007 Fleetwood Heritage next weekend which I would very much like to keep. This meens we could buy 5 at the right price and we are local so could collect.

spj.

 

[hublock]

Kenneth,

What I can't see from the website is whether all the wheel nut holes have individual locks or if only one of the holes per wheel is locked. If all the bolts are of a locking type then apart from a key you'll multiply penetration time but at least 4x. This is a good feature. However if there's only one then I would have the locking bolt off in well less than two minutes.

It's not an idle boast but it's about being taught the technique by a tyre fitter.

Just to put this in perspective the locking wheel nut on my wife's old VW Sharan was stripped by an over enthusiastic fitter at one large chain with use of an air gun. With a puncture there was no choice but to take the wheel off and either order a new key which has to be checked VW HQ and takes up to 10 days or remove it. 1 minute later I have the bolt in my hand !!

If your think that VW use substandard locking wheel nuts then you be wrong they are as good a MCGard because they are made by their parent company in Canada !

Hello Monkey

This posting was started by Magnus on 29th October.

I tried to give him some information so he could consider a new security device that can stop his first caravan being stolen.

It looks like he has been totally confused now and buggered off, (just joking) but I hope not.

I did ask you, Euro, Steve in Leo and Rod to phone me so I can explain some confidential info.

No one has phoned me back, but at least you have sent another question on the forum.

The HUBLOCK has four locking bolts but you will not remove them without the special key.

1) You will not remove it with oxyacetylene. Tell me another device that can make this claim.

2) You will not remove it with professional tools. This includes all of the tools you and others refer to. It is not the design of the bolts, but the design of the HUBLOCK disc that makes this possible.

The tools used by tyre fitters WILL NOT remove the bolts.

The

 

[hublock]

Euro,

You still dont understand, I did ask you to phone me so I can explain some more confidential points.

SPJ,

I think you do get it, but unfortunately you may be putting information on the forum that can help small time thieves.

We have tested the methods you suggest and they dont work.

If you are local to us call me, I will explain the more confidential points, you can arrange to see them, and we can also work out a deal for you.

Every customer we have is delighted with the product, and the majority are ones who have had a caravan stolen.

If you want to keep your caravan safe please call me.

 

[hublock]

Hi Kenneth, no doubt you are proud of your product and no doubt it passes the industy tests. Industry tests are not ingenious thieves though.

Your product is shown to use locking bolts that can easily be removed, if you can fit the correct key I'm assured that there are at least two off the shelf tools that will remove the bolts.

You talk of burning or cutting the Hublock off when you only need to remove the bolts. There are other ways of removing the bolts that are not mentioned in your list and with the stated torque settings you are either keeping other removal methods to yourself or you are working with limited knowlege.

My caravan is kept at home in France and we do not tend to have the scumbags encountered here in the UK and we have , your product looks good but a good thief will still bypass it. Nothing personal.

My son inlaws car has a top rated alarm as approved by Thatcham etc but his car was still robbed and he didn't even know.

So much for the Police, Thatcham and Gold Star ratings and he was lucky the thieves were not after the car.

Hello again euro,

These locking bolts are the best on the market and were chosen for that very reason.

You will not remove them from the HUBLOCK with any off the shelf tools you refer to. Please don't name any of these tools since it could help small time criminals to steal the alloy wheels off your son in laws car. He's had enough grief from your comments and I do sympathise.

It is the design of the HUBLOCK that prevents the locking bolts being removed (this is patented).

Your negative comments come from your lack of understanding of the HUBLOCK, and this is why I asked you to call me personally.

We are trying to help forum members by giving them information which will allow them to make their own considered choice.

Why not take this opportunity to give them your own advice. We can't all live in France unfortunately as much as we would like.

 

[Guest]

Kenneth, does or does not the removal of the Hublock require the standard key supplied to the security bolt ?

Unless the photo's of the product have been doctored you can see the head of the security bolt. Providing the heads can be seen even if access has been reduced or the bolt set deep into the product the bolt can be removed without cutting the Hublock itself or even damaging it.

If you are so confident in your product surely you would offer a guarantee that the Hublock will never be removed by a thief, or why not offer some kind of FREE life time anti theft insurance with your product?

The product is also only relevant when the caravan is stored at home or else where.

It is unlikely that anyone would use it on site or when travelling, if the locking bolt sytem is so secure I'm sure you are missing out by not using the system for a wheel clamp type device. Bolts are as easy to use as some fiddly lock keys after all!

You state that the bolts are he best on the market but they are removable with a standard removal tool in there normal usage.

You are using the forum to promote your product, it is a two way trade as it does help forum but at the end of the day as you would appear to be profitting financially by way of a public discussion I feel that you should discuss the products features in public, then again any thief has the chance now to call you saying he goes by the name of "euro" whilst you explain what he has to overcome.

 

[MONKEY1]

Well,

I spoke with Kenneth for about 40 minutes today and I do believe that he has a good product as it's design is better than the website suggests.

For a start access to the bolts is recessed - therefore restricted and doesn't allow the socket over nut trick. Could you tap weld a small socket on well - in theory use but it would take a very good welder and they would have to have the right consumables and a very steady hand - Chances your average thief wouldn't risk it or be able to achieve it.

As for the comments above well yes a money back guarantee would be nice as would some product liability but the product is not expensive. Think about it one of the most popular additions at the moment is a motor mover which all cost circa

 

[Guest]

What a marketing coup to offer a product that would offer Caravan insurers a gauranteed way that they would not have to pay out!

If the product is that good insurers could offer reduced premiums to those buying the Hublock and the Hublock would be worth paying a few bob more.

I'm sure the Hublock is a fine deterrent but as the Titanic was sink proof the Hublock will and can be removed.

Without sounding to cloak and dagger engineering type problem jobs that were virtually inpossible about 5 years ago have been overcome by what is now an off the shelf product if you know where to look.

A call to the right company and they will even provide the right equipment to work with the Hublocks security bolts not that it has anything to do with the bolts or the Hublock application. The products owners found that there staff were more inventive when it came to uses for there new baby and staff at the end users were also quite inventive when they found how clever and good the product is. Word also went around the manufacturers works and the companies drivers were supplying the product on the side to criminals as has happened with many other products where sales out strip the normal market places requirements.

Necessity is the mother of invention and we all know how resourceful thieves can be, the product has now been duplicated by at least two other competitors, so how long before a Hublocks fails by this or other clever or crude ways.

But good luck to Kenneth and his fine product.

ps. having seen a virtually uneducated 19 old ( previous job _ thug / thief ) who could not read or write cut through hardened steel without using a cutting torch or any kind of saw as men with over thirty years experience stood in awe of his ingenuity, I'm still wait with baited breath.

 

[hublock]

Hello Euro,

To get back to the point, this posting was started by Magnus, a new caravanner, who asked for advice on how to keep his new pride and joy safe.

You have given your "uninformed" views on the Hublock, but as yet you haven't given Magnus the benefit of your knowledge.

What security devices do you use on your own caravan, and what devices do you recommend he should consider.

 

[Guest]

Kenneth.

Magnus asked about a wheel clamp from what I saw, something I consider to be suited for use when using the van.

You Kenneth, offered a Hublock that is more suited to storing a caravan.

But then again you would advise to look at the Hublock as it seems you are either the manufacturer or a salesman making financial gain from selling the Hublock.

As fine a product that it might be, in practical terms it would appear not to be suited to all round use as it involves removing wheel/s and jacking the caravan up.

You never asked if that is what Magnus is looking for, but with your sales hat on I guess you wouldn't !

As for me being uninformed, that's abit of a salesman attempt at a put-down when the head of the screws ( that in essence is what they are) that secure the Hublock can be easily accessed despite being set deep in a restricted opening.

I would advise Magnus to decide if he needs two forms of lock as the Hublock is not a practical choice for use when travelling. With his storage setting he may just feel that the Hublock is an added expense that is not needed.

There are numerous good locks on the market and some insurers ask for specific locks so I would also advise Magnus to check with his insurer's as to their requirements and if a Hublock is OK if they state wheel lock and that is what he wants.

We have two Caravans and they are stored for the winter at home in France, they are in a garage under our new house so our security is of a differnet form than most others.

I also know they are there as I can check via PC or mobile phone that they and the house are secure at any time.

 

[hublock]

Hello Allyson

Who would buy a caravan and not insure it?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4940596.stm
http://www.caravanning4u.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3359
Insurers insisted on a tracker fitted to the Hobby twin axle caravan before they would give cover.

The company came to install it but brought the wrong unit and said they would have to come back to fit the correct one in a couple of days time. The caravan was stolen before they returned and before the insurance cover was in place.

The owner is looking at a

 

[Allyson]

Hi Kenneth

Long time to no hear!

We have our caravan fully insured thank you and before we picked it up.

The insurance company should not have to pay for this error.

If I had just bought that new van I would have left it at the dealers until this security system was fitted. I would not have moved this van off the premises until I was sure that it was fully covered.

People are asking for trouble without insurance. Why didn't the experts in security bring the right product? Are they really experts?

 

[hublock]

Hello Allyson

It is a while, but I just came accross these cases and remembered your posting, "Who buys a caravan without insuring it first".

It just shows some people are taking a risk.

I have talked to the owner of the Hobby and he bought the caravan privately, not through a UK dealer.

He couldn't get insurance until he had a tracker fitted but unfortunately the van was stolen before this could be done.

The caravan was in a secured compound and he did have a hitch lock and two wheel clamps fitted but they were cut off.

I know you have your insurance and security sorted, but this is more a warning to others who read this forum, some who are new to caravanning.

 

[Mikey1]

we have the bulldog titan wheelclamp.

big, bulky heavy clamp (some find it cumbersome to fit) but we've never had a problem whatsoever.

Hi i couldnt believe how easily they leavered my Titan Bulldog wheelclamp off.

 

[RayS]

Having got lost in the hoo-ha about hublock, the original enquiry has not really been answered.

So far as I am aware most insurers will require hitchlock, wheelclamp and possible alarm with vibration sensing if you want a reasonable premium.

Some new vans with the larger wheels are virtually impossible to fit with a conventional wheel clamp. so the alternatives are the Alko safe device (which can be a pain to align) or a really good chain through the wheel and chassis. These have the advantage of being much easier to carry, and several on the market carry the same "sold secure" rating as many of the wheel clamps. Certainly the CC insurance accepts these as equivalent to a clamp.