Where does it end!!!

[grumpy2447]

Hi, Me again!

Love reading this Forum, although my good lady is convinced that every time I read it I end up spending more money!

So, we picked up our new van (Lunar Quasar 674 on 8th of March and already had a good weekend with only minor hitches. I never looked at a twin axle van as I always mistakenly believed they were heavy. However having decided to buy a van (we tried a week in a motor-home and a week towing a van last summer), we ordered a van at the NEC show last October. Fortunately having done more research on sites like these, I got cold feet about the van we ordered as it was clearly too heavy for my car given my inexperience. This was confirmed and we cancelled the order and started the search again. Found the 674 and loved the space and layout but then when I walked around it I noted the twin axle and my heart sunk; I assumed it would be too heavy. It wasnt and we bought it.

Not sure what the criterion for manufacturers is anymore for twin axle as the single axle we originally ordered was heavier, longer and wider but on a single axle.. I booked storage and a week later I was advised that my space may be in jeopardy because the owners hadn't realised my van was twin axle? Q1. Why does the number of axles matter here? Surely it is length and width?

Next question is around security. Do I really need 2 wheel locks? If one wheel lock can prevent theft of a single axle then surely it will prevent the theft of a twin? If not I then come to my next dilemma. I never realised it would be so hard to fit 2 locks to a twin. I now find that not only do I need 2 locks but I now need to jack the van up to just get the second one on. Ordered a jack following more research and now understand that I need to order and install some brackets for the chassis to accommodate the jack; why aren't these brackets fitted as standard?

When I bought the van, I had all the essentials with a couple of extras but these new issues are biting in to my Cadac fund. so when does it stop?.

 

[Craigyoung]

Suggestion , we have one off these https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwi98Ib31YzhAhWG53cKHfMaAToYABAWGgJlZg&ae=1&ohost=www.google.co.uk&cid=CAESEeD2PNCmwZWNI_IWXGQDD5cK&sig=AOD64_0f2_I5ANbsdDvrQ57JqS6HmE9eLw&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwjn5P321YzhAhVCtnEKHRFdDLQQwg96BAgLEBM&adurl=https://www.barriersdirect.co.uk/parking-posts-residential-c1087/vehicle-clamps-c1205/wheel-clamps-to-secure-your-caravan-bulldog-qd-sold-secure-approval-p3122%3Fshopping%26gclid%3DCj0KCQjwg73kBRDVARIsAF-kEH_5rGD6zZk16rI8cNiaIe5K6cbXuE_0DiDLeV3R3eo5-AdvRkMi1gQaAkybEALw_wcB , why not get one of these as well as one that just fits in the receiver then it saves jacking the van up ?

 

[Niall_McIntosh]

A lot of people with Twin Axles swear by these: https://www.locknlevel.co.uk/

 

[grumpy2447]

Thanks Craig. Looked at these as a solution but insurers want both wheels locked to the chassis using the receivers? Suspect it may be worth adopting your option though and increasing me premium a little bit. I suspect this would also be a quicker and easier option when at Service stations etc

 

[otherclive]

Thanks Craig. Looked at these as a solution but insurers want both wheels locked to the chassis using the receivers? Suspect it may be worth adopting your option though and increasing me premium a little bit. I suspect this would also be a quicker and easier option when at Service stations etc

We never leave the caravan at service areas. Always one of us stays with it. You’d be surprised how quickly skilled professionals can remove some wheel locks. Hitchlocks can be bypassed too if they want the van.

 

[grumpy2447]

That looks great and the one for me. Thanks Niall; I guess the Cadac can wait!

 

[Craigyoung]

Thanks Craig. Looked at these as a solution but insurers want both wheels locked to the chassis using the receivers? Suspect it may be worth adopting your option though and increasing me premium a little bit. I suspect this would also be a quicker and easier option when at Service stations etc

We never leave the caravan at service areas. Always one of us stays with it. You’d be surprised how quickly skilled professionals can remove some wheel locks. Hitchlocks can be bypassed too if they want the van.

My thought also , when we park at service stations we take in turns with the kids to the toilet or get refreshments then I go so no need to be locking up at the service stations .

 

[CustardAvenger]

None of the insurers I've done quotes with have made the AL-KO wheel lock mandatory. There may be a 5% discount for using one, but the initial purchase cost (The lozenge shape for my alloy wheel seemed particularly expensive & available at a dealer only) and absolute pain the back-side to fit one, especially at home where the caravan has almost no margin for receiver alignment and jacking safely would require me to partially block the road with the car makes it not worth it for me.

However, I do have 2 wheel locks on my Single Axle when stored and I imagine a TA could be towed with one wheel smashed off, hence the 2 lock requirement.

When we have left the caravan unattended at the services, we have also used the Hitch Lock to secure to the car... but most of the time we take turns and wait with the car.

 

[otherclive]

In answer to your question.........
It never does end

As Custard Avenger my insurer only requires a hitchlock and wheel lock but does not specify the type. I do use the Al-Ko when it’s on the drive but most times when I stow the caravan after a trip there’s quite a bit of back and forth plus nose swing required to align it with the receiver. On sites I rarely use it but do carry it in case on the journey the outfit has to be left for any reason. But I also carry the Al-Ko hitch lock which secures car and van together plus my touring milenco lighter weight wheel clamp.

 

[Thingy]

None of the insurers I've done quotes with have made the AL-KO wheel lock mandatory.

Im afraid I cant say the same. You may have seen the other thread "Insurance Declined". That was Caravan Guard. Now I have to be fair with them and admit its not normally a stipulation of theirs, but the quote for us was on a New For Old basis, and because of the replacement cost of this caravan, they insisted on Al-Ko. When I said I couldnt use one, the geography of my drive makes it very difficult, they "declined" insurance. Now as when you apply for a quote or policy, you are asked have you ever had "insurance declined or cancelled", we had to get a letter from them in which they state clearly that it was not declined for the person (me).

During this call you told us that you are unhappy that we were unable to provide you with an online quotation for touring caravan insurance. This is because you are unable to meet our security requirements for this value of caravan.
As this is the only reason we are unable to cover you, there is no need for this to be disclosed to future insurers.

The Caravan Club, for a similar policy only stipulate Hitchlock or wheel clamps. I do use both. We try never to leave the van unattended on route, but on the odd occasion we have, I drop the hitchlock on.

 

[Niall_McIntosh]

That looks great and the one for me. Thanks Niall; I guess the Cadac can wait!

Oh, I'm not sure the Cadac should wait, you have to get your priorities right! :evil:

 

[Raywood]

I suspect the storage point is that with a few exceptions twin axles are longer than single and need a longer space. Many seem to have different longer ones for them so the owner would need to check your caravan fitted.
As for security the caravan can be towed by larger pickups by increasing the hitch height if there is a clamp on one of the front wheels.
I agree that jacking points should be fitted as using the axle as the handbook suggests is not ideal.

 

[ProfJohnL]

There is no technical problem with having large caravan sitting on a single axle. In fact there are plenty a the longest caravans that just use a single axle. The choice is a marketing decision, not a technical necessity.

I have used quite small caravans that have TA's

Some sites do ban twin axles becasue manoeuvring them in tight causes the tyres to scrub sideways which does damage grass etc.

There is a story that claims the ban is because TA's are popular with the traveller community. If that is the reason its illegal under discrimination law.

 

[chrisn7]

This is a problem area with TAs. On site I level and fit the ALKO locks with LnL as mentioned above. In storage this cant be done, so you are faced with using the ALKO jack. Except that if you have fitted a 4WD motor mover, the jacking brackets have to be removed/cant be fitted! So you are down to fitting just one ALKO plus hitchlock which is enough for some insurers, without breaking out the trolley jack...

 

[Ironduke2018]

Where does it end? Mmm, I can honestly say that for me it hasn't and I've been in a TA for several years now. My issue is that I'm a compulsive fiddler. if it aint broken, I'll fiddle with it until it is. Then I have the excuse to justify to my wife why a £3000 hydraulic auto-leveling system is good value for money. I'm totally hopeless like that. I'd say where it finishes for me is when I'm turning up on a club site with something that looks like its been prepared by NASA and is about to be launched on a falcon 9 to mars, oh yes I can see it now, communication dishes and loads of funny looking protruberences. Brill!!

 

[Raywood]

Some sites do ban twin axles becasue manoeuvring them in tight causes the tyres to scrub sideways which does damage grass etc.

There is a story that claims the ban is because TA's are popular with the traveller community. If that is the reason its illegal under discrimination law.

Hi prof, I think that banning twin axles is usually a way of keeping out travelers, but given that it is not discriminating against just them the sites do get away with it. The alternative is to require the towing vehicle to be in a good condition which can also work.
One CC site I went on had a site full sign up. The answer was they knew of travellers in the area and had a ready made defence to keep them out if they turned up there.

 

[Harby]

We have a twin axle and until recently parked on the driveway behind security bollards, and never needed wheel locks for the insurance. We've about to move house and the driveway is less secure, so our dealership suggested one Al-ko - fit that first - then a nemesis wheel lock which is apparently less fiddly. As it's not an insurance necessity, it feels like the easiest option for us at the moment.

 

[Hutch]

We have a twin axle and until recently parked on the driveway behind security bollards, and never needed wheel locks for the insurance. We've about to move house and the driveway is less secure, so our dealership suggested one Al-ko - fit that first - then a nemesis wheel lock which is apparently less fiddly. As it's not an insurance necessity, it feels like the easiest option for us at the moment.

I like the idea of the Nemisis, as it gives you a greater wheel angle to work on, I suppose the other, method mike be to have another AlKo lozenge, of a smaller size, to give more leeway, on fitting.

On the storage site that we use they do not allow twin axles due to thieves targeting them and removing them without the owners consent, even though big security gates and CCTV. No thefts from the site for about 8 years now.

Thanks Parksy

 

[Thingy]

I like the idea of the Nemisis, as it gives you a greater wheel angle to work on, I suppose the other, method mike be to have another AlKo lozenge, of a smaller size, to give more leeway, on fitting.

Thats the one I use, its made a massive difference to the ease on my drive. Probably not as secure as the Alko but its a very good lock even so. Coupled with hitch lock and locking steadies, it should be enough.

 

[benshepherd]

If you are wanting the ultimate security, especially whilst in storage, then nothing comes close to JSB Hublocks. You do need to remove wheels though. With practice, I can now fit a pair of them onto my TA Hobby in about 5 or 6 minutes including jacking it up. Therefore I even use them when touring.
www.jsbhublock.co.uk

 

[Thingy]

If you are wanting the ultimate security, especially whilst in storage, then nothing comes close to JSB Hublocks. You do need to remove wheels though. With practice, I can now fit a pair of them onto my TA Hobby in about 5 or 6 minutes including jacking it up. Therefore I even use them when touring.

Correct me if Im wrong, but using them for touring must be a pain in the proverbial to level the caravan properly.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If you are wanting the ultimate security, especially whilst in storage, then nothing comes close to JSB Hublocks. You do need to remove wheels though. With practice, I can now fit a pair of them onto my TA Hobby in about 5 or 6 minutes including jacking it up. Therefore I even use them when touring.
www.jsbhublock.co.uk

If you are using these wheel replacement security devices, do you also carry the necessary torque wrench, and do you stop your journey after a few miles to recheck the wheel nuts?

 

[benshepherd]

Yes I do check torque after driving for usually 20-50 miles. Takes about 1 min so really not burdensome tbh. I'm quite OCD about correct torquing.

And re. the comment on levelling, no it isn't a hassle at all. I know the JSBs sit at about the same height as my wheel so I check if caravan level first. If other side needs raising I just use a plank or 2. If JSB side needs raising, that's easy as I just jack slightly higher when fitting the JSB and put a plank under at same time. The whole thing is made easy by use of Kojack jacking points which mate jacking effortless.

I thought they would be a nightmare to use when touring and indeed my first couple of trips it took ages. However just practice and the use of the Kojack jack had made the world of difference. I use an impact gun to speed up wheel removal but even without that it wouldn't take too much longer. When I had a Swift I wouldn't have bothered, but I'm afraid that Hobby caravans are a much greater target for thieves so I'm very happy with 6 mins of inconvenience.

 

[Buckman]

Yes I do check torque after driving for usually 20-50 miles. Takes about 1 min so really not burdensome tbh. I'm quite OCD about correct torquing.

And re. the comment on levelling, no it isn't a hassle at all. I know the JSBs sit at about the same height as my wheel so I check if caravan level first. If other side needs raising I just use a plank or 2. If JSB side needs raising, that's easy as I just jack slightly higher when fitting the JSB and put a plank under at same time. The whole thing is made easy by use of Kojack jacking points which mate jacking effortless.

I thought they would be a nightmare to use when touring and indeed my first couple of trips it took ages. However just practice and the use of the Kojack jack had made the world of difference. I use an impact gun to speed up wheel removal but even without that it wouldn't take too much longer. When I had a Swift I wouldn't have bothered, but I'm afraid that Hobby caravans are a much greater target for thieves so I'm very happy with 6 mins of inconvenience.

Don't most insurance companies require a wheel clamp to be fitted to the ALKO Secure lock? In the event of flooding or a fire and the need to move in a real hurry, I would think it is a real hassle to faff around with that type of wheel lock. We certainly would not entertain fitting them but each to their own and whatever makes them happy.

 

[Brasso530]

I'm with the CAMC and it doesn't specify which make of security devices,only that you fit hitchlock and wheel clamp in storage,and either one on tour.Although I need to clarify the last bit as I think they've changed it this year to both when unattended.